Are cardiologists the enemy?

I'm sitting at dinner with two colleagues. One is a cardiology colleague, another an internist who, in addition to practicing general internal medicine, also takes heart disease prevention very seriously. He has, in fact, participated in the Track Your Plaque program and dropped his heart scan score substantially.

"Why don't we see you in the cath lab much?" my cardiology colleague asked me. He was puzzled, since he knew my background in cath lab work from years before, spending day and night doing procedure after procedure. He spends virtually all his days there.

"Well, my patients simply don't have events any more. Heart attacks and angina among people in my program are just about non-existent. They don't have symptoms and they don't have to go to the hospital. I can't remember the last time that I was woken up in the middle of the night for an urgent procedure for one of my patients."

The internist across the table smiled and expressed his agreement. "That's the same thing I'm seeing: No heart attacks, very few if any referrals to cardiologists for procedures. I remember when it was a several times a week thing. Now, almost never. "

Looking at my cardiology colleague, I saw the usual cardiologist reaction: Eyes searching left and right and behind us for something more interesting. Certainly, talking about a virtual cure for coronary heart disease was just too damn dull.

Such is the attitude of 98% of my colleagues: If it doesn't generate a revenue-producing procedure, why bother? Prevention is for general practitioners, the line of thinking goes. "And anyway, I'm too busy doing procedures! I don't ahve time to talk about prevention and health!" Of course, the poor general practitioner is already overloaded with caring for arthritis, flu, diabetes and all the new drugs for diabetes, headaches, vaccinations, diarrhea, and . . .oh, yes, heart disease prevention.

Are cardiologists the enemy? No, of course they are are not. But they often act like they are. Talking to cardiologists is like going to the car dealer with your checkbook out, pen in hand. The salesman gets to write the check himself and you just sign it. Talk to a cardiologist and more often than not you will end up with a heart procedure--whether or not you need it.

Unfortunately--tragically--they often forget what they are supposed to be doing: Taking care of a disease by preventing it. Putting in a defibrillator is not preventing a disease. Putting in three stents, laser angioplasty, and thrombectomy are not ways of preventing a disease.

I'm thankful for my internist friend who sees the light. Coronary heart disease is a an easily measurable, quantifiable, preventable, and REVERSIBLE process for many, if not most, people when provided the right tools. But don't ask your neighborhood cardiologists to give you those tools.

Comments (12) -

  • Anonymous

    11/7/2007 4:30:00 PM |

    My grandfather, who had a great sense of humor, had heart disease and was a frequent visitor to the cardiologist office.  One day we were sitting in the cardiologist's waiting room and I was reading an article on doctors that get sued for malpractice.  In it was a list of doctors more likely to be sued and those not.  Leading the list of doctors least likely to be sued for malpractice was cardiologist.  I pointed this out and granddads response was, "That's because cardiologists are better at burying their mistakes."

    I'm guessing the best way to make cardiologists change their ways is by using the court system - unfortunately.  Just a few weeks ago I encouraged my mom to talk to her long time friend about doing that.  The friend’s father was on a hunting trip when he experienced chest pains.  He was rushed out of the woods to his hospital.  Cardiologists performed tests and everything came back normal.  No measures were taken.  A few weeks later the guy died from a heart attack.  As I told mom, a simple CT scan would have shown he had plaque and needed to immediately take preventive measures.  With all that is known now about detection and prevention it was criminal what was done and not done to that man.

  • Dr. Davis

    11/7/2007 8:11:00 PM |

    It's sad and unfortunate, but sometimes your hand is forced. I agree: Legal action in selected cases may be necessary to obtain justice and raise public awareness of the magnitude of this wrongful activity.

  • summersam

    11/8/2007 12:26:00 PM |

    Dear Dr Davis; I enjoy your column...  my question is this; I lap swim three days a week. I consider it to be a every other day stress test. i can certainly tell rapidly what foods are not good for: Red meat, butter, ice cream, shrimp, those are the biggys. Certainly the other meats that i eat have cholesterol; why dont they bother me? Ive had friends that swim relate the same to me: Beef and dairy is OUT.

  • Paul Kelly - 95.1 WAYV

    11/8/2007 12:34:00 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis,

    Speaking of prevention - at what age should we start thinking about getting a CT Heart Scan? Also, would the scan show if there were heart problems other than plaque build-up?

    Thanks!

  • jpatti

    11/9/2007 7:32:00 AM |

    I'm a 45 yr old female with diabetes, but no history of heart disease in my family even in the other diabetics.  Obviously, I didn't die from my heart attack in May, but...

    I went to the ER complaining of recurrent chest pain, got an EKG and blood work, and was sent home with an antacid for my "heartburn."

    A couple days later, after vomiting and screaming off-and-on for a couple hours at a time all night, my husband took me back to the ER.  He carefully explained we already *knew* it wasn't a heart attack, but something is really wrong here - he had to speak for me because I could neither walk nor speak when we went to the ER the second time.  

    This time, I was transported to another hospital for an emergency angio and subsequent bypass for my so-called "heartburn."  

    Pretty amazing that I developed a heart condition requiring two surgeries two days after I didn't have a heart condition, eh?

    I remember being really terrified when the surgeon told me there was a 5% chance of dying during the bypass.  She thought I misunderstood, that a 95% chance of living was good, but no... 5% *is* BAD.  I don't normally do things that have a one in twenty chance of killing me!  

    It was much later at home learning about heart disease that I discovered I'd had a 50% chance of dying just from the heart attack itself; sudden death is the first symptom in half of the folks with heart disease.  

    I'm a very lucky chick that my husband isn't currently suing someone for letting me die.

    As the holiday approaches here in the states, I was asked what I am thankful for.  This year, just being alive at all qualifies as something I have profound gratitude for.

  • Dr. Davis

    11/9/2007 12:22:00 PM |

    You are a survivor of a flawed system. To me, even worse than the mis-diagnosis of the ER, is why wasn't your heart disease diagnosed during the DECADE before your heart attack?

    Have you looked at Jenny Ruhl's wonderful Diabetes Update Blog and the associated website? It provides interesting commentary on diabetes, with intelligent nutritional commentary that flies in the face of the idiocy coming from the American Diabetes Association.

  • Dr. Davis

    11/9/2007 12:24:00 PM |

    Summersam--I wonder if you are just among the people who struggle with digestion of fats, regardless of type.

    Paul-Men, 40 and over, women 50 and over, earlier if an outstanding source of risk is present. For other abnormalities seen on heart scans, please refer to my Heart Scan Curiosities posts on this Blog.

  • Anonymous

    11/10/2007 2:05:00 AM |

    can you please comment on the latest study out that says the Ornish diet is best for hesrt disease. I think it ranked south beach and atkins very low. I know Dr. Ornish has a new book out soon "The Spectrum Diet" these findings were presented at the AHA.
    Thoughts?

  • Dr. Davis

    11/10/2007 12:48:00 PM |

    The study I believe you are referring to was a University of Massachusetts rating system, not truly a study. They simply gave grades of presumed health factors, using the so-called "Alternate Healthy Eating Index (AHEI)" that ranks fiber content and other healthy ingredients. It was NOT a real world comparison of diets, nor did it study effects on heart disease. In other words, it was just a speculative discussion.

  • jpatti

    11/10/2007 7:23:00 PM |

    Dr. Mike Eades blogged about the anti-Atkins poster presentation here:
    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2007/11/06/does-the-atkins-diet-damage-blood-vessels/

    and here: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2007/11/08/more-on-the-low-carb-study-at-the-aha-meeting/

    And I agree, Dr. Davis, Jenny's site and blog (and her previous sites and Usenet posts) are a great resource for diabetics.

  • Richard Poor

    11/25/2007 7:15:00 PM |

    I had 2 CABG and have researched like crazy. Conclusions: we still don't know much. Cytokines & etc. from stress can be lethal regardless. 256 slice CT scan is best test but only one machine in USA. VAP combined with LIPOPRINT best blood tests. Antioxidants understudied. Mainstream medicine is mercenary, more concerned with profit that healing.

  • Dr. Davis

    11/26/2007 12:52:00 AM |

    Hi, Richard--

    I'm afraid you are right. However, I do believe that we still do know a fair amount. I would encourage you to read prior Heart Scan Blog posts, along with the www.trackyourplaque.com website. Our philosophy is that heart disease can be halted or reversed in most people (not all). While not perfect, it is the best approach I am aware of. It is certainly better than the "take Lipitor and pray" mentality of conventional, "mercenary," medicine.

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Making sense out of lipid changes

Making sense out of lipid changes

Maggie had been doing well on her program, enjoying favorable lipids near our 60-60-60 targets (HDL 60 mg/dl or greater, LDL 60 mg/dl or less, triglycerides 60 mg/dl or less). Last fall, her last set of values were:

Total cholesterol: 149 mg/dl
LDL cholesterol: 67 mg/dl
HDL cholesterol: 73 mg/dl
Triglycerides: 43 mg/dl

The holidays, as with most people, involved a frenzy of indulgent eating: Christmas cookies, cakes, pies, stuffing, potatoes, candies, etc.

Maggie returned to the office 6 pounds heavier with these values:

Total cholesterol: 210 mg/dl
LDL cholesterol: 124 mg/dl
HDL cholesterol: 57 mg/dl
Triglycerides: 144 mg/dl

In other words, holiday indulgences caused an increase in LDL cholesterol, a reduction in HDL, an increase in triglycerides, an increase in total cholesterol.

What happened?

At first glance, many of my colleagues would interpret this as fat indulgence and/or a "need" for statin drug therapy.

Having done thousands of lipoprotein panels, I can tell you that, beneath the surface, the following has occurred:

--Overindulgence in carbohydrates from the goodies triggered triglyceride (actually VLDL) formation in the liver, released into the blood.
--Increased triglycerides and VLDL triggered a boom in conversion of large LDL to small LDL (since triglycerides are required to form small LDL particles) via cholesteryl-ester transfer protein (CETP) activity.
--Increased triglycerides and VLDL interacted with HDL particles, causing "remodeling" of HDL particles to the less desirable, less protective small particles, which do not persist as long in the blood, resulting in a reduction of HDL.

The critical factor is carbohydrate intake. This triggered a domino effect that is often misintepreted as excessive fat intake or a genetic predisposition. It is nothing of the kind.

I discussed this phenomenon with Maggie. She now knows to not overindulge in the holiday snacks in future and will revert promptly back to her 60-60-60 values.

Comments (9) -

  • Rick

    1/27/2009 4:37:00 AM |

    Wow. I hadn't realised that a short period of over-eating could trigger such big changes.

    Is there any danger from triglycerides going much below the target of 60?

  • Diana Hsieh

    1/27/2009 5:23:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis --

    What might cause a substantial rise in LDL, while triglycerides and HDL are lower than ever?

    Here's what happened with my tests over the last year and a half:

    ** Summer 2007, eating the standard American diet **
    Total Cholesterol: 266
    Triglycerides: 109
    HDL: 79
    LDL: 165

    ** Summer 2008, just a few weeks into my new diet (no processed foods, no grains, no sugars, no vegetable oils) **
    Total Cholesterol: 225
    Triglycerides: 63
    HDL: 72
    LDL: 140

    And now, January 2009 (same diet as before):
    Total Cholesterol: 341
    Triglycerides: 55
    HDL: 99
    LDL: 231

    My triglycerides and HDL are better than ever, but my LDL has gone way up.  I didn't overindulge over the holidays, but I was losing weight (slowly) when I got that latest test.

    I know -- thanks to your blogging -- that inferred LDL values are highly unreliable.  And I also know that there's a difference between small LDL (bad, caused by eating high carb) and the bigger, fluffier (okay) LDL.  The LDL number doesn't differentiate between those values.  Or might something else be the cause?

    My doctor wants to do a cholesterol recheck next month -- and I'm thinking that I ought to ask for a measured LDL value and a particle size test.  Does that seem reasonable to you?  

    BTW, my heart scan from six months ago is totally clear.  So I don't care how much my doc pushes, I absolutely refuse to go on any kind of cholesterol-lowering medication.

    Also, thanks to you, I got a vitamin D test -- and my values were excellent.  (I do supplement.)  Yeah!

  • Jenny

    1/27/2009 2:19:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    While it is true that overindulging in carbs causes all the changes you cite here, if your patient really wants to stick with the program life-long, she'll do better learning how to carb up a bit at the holidays, and then correct afterwards, rather than getting into a lifestyle of self-denial that will build up an undercurrent of feelings of deprivation that will eventually blow her completely off course.

    I've been there, done that. Three family holiday seasons without eating any of our traditional foods left me depressed and miserable. Food is a complex issue with deep emotional roots.

    Something like a family death or a cancer diagnosis can trigger binges that derive from that deprivation and really derail the diet.

    I have found it much better to build in safety valves into the diet, here and there.  The lipids will recover very fast once she goes back to eating the low carb diet.  

    I've been doing a low carb lifestyle for going on 11 years now, and I attribute its success to the safety valves. Yes, I do gain a few pounds over the holidays, but I take them off in January.  

    The psychology of successful dieting is often to accept "good enough" rather than perfect. Perfect has a nasty way of ending up in disaster.

    If you doubt this, just read the low carb diet boards where for every person who has maintained perfectly for 5+ years there are 25 people back after catastrophic regains caused by being too stringent.

  • Alan S David

    1/27/2009 3:36:00 PM |

    Is it carbs in general or should we be more consciously eliminating the wheat and corn products?  
    I eat quinoa,oatmeal,  buckwheat,beans,brown rice, etc. Not to excess but as a part of my usual diet.
    Just wondering?

  • Grandma S.

    1/27/2009 4:51:00 PM |

    Question: I understand no wheat and what it does to the LDLs, but does that include potatoes? Thank you!

  • Anonymous

    1/28/2009 5:57:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I have a similar issue as Diana Hsieh.  

    My Total Cholesterol: 258
    Triglycerides : 60
    HDL : 61
    LDL- 181

    I've been on a low carb diet avoiding wheat, rice, starches, sugar, high fructose corn syrups and fruits for the last 6 months.  I've lost 35 pounds and reduced my triglycerides from 296 to 60.  Taking fish oil and slo-niacin. I have been eating alot of saturated animal fats (rib-eye steaks, baby back pork ribs, eggs) Is eating the saturated animal fat causing my total cholesterol to be too high?  Is total cholesterol above 200 dangerous if Triglycerides and HDL are in the 60's?

  • vin

    1/28/2009 10:11:00 AM |

    I am trying for last three years to get my HDL numbers high. So far without success. I have tried exercise and cutting out wheat but without significant improvement. I have now added 4000iu vitamin D. Will do a follow up blood test after about two months to see if HDL level increases.

    Any other tips?

  • Jmuls

    1/28/2009 12:34:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Is there often a direct correlation between low triglycerides and a greater proportion of large LDL particles?  Thanks

    - John

  • Trinkwasser

    2/8/2009 2:08:00 PM |

    Here were my lipids on a Heart Healthy (sarcasm) Diet

    Trigs 380
    HDL 25
    LDL 165

    Add simvastatin

    Trigs 185
    HDL 33
    LDL 75

    Here they are on a low carb diet with my BG more or less normalised
    (70 - 90 and postprandials mostly below 110 and seldom over 120)

    Trigs 39
    HDL 47
    LDL 105

    Adding more saturated fat

    Trigs 62
    HDL 55
    LDL 94

    Spot the reversal of HDL to LDL

    IME low carbing decimates the trigs and tends to increase HDL and LDL both, tinkering with the fat content and type adjusts the balance between these BUT there's a lot of individual variation as to exactly how this works. Some people just seem to have high LDL whatever they do, maybe a long term change from years of insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia, maybe genes which would respond to a different balance of fat types in the diet.

    My #1 weapon has been BG testing

    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

    which is deprecated in the UK. Lipid breakdowns are often unavailable and Full Lipid Panel is deprecated in favour of TChol which is pointless but cheaper. The money saving is probably to pay for the blanket prescription of statins, and it also serves to conceal the toxic nature of the diet

    http://www.nhs.uk/Change4Life/Pages/default.aspx

    here's the diabetic version

    http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Food_and_recipes/Food_and_diabetes/Balancing_your_diet/

    I feel like part of a eugenics experiment

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