CIS: Carbohydrate intolerance syndrome

Carbohydrate intolerance comes in many shades and colors, shapes and sizes.

I call all of its varieties the Carbohydrate Intolerance Syndrome, or CIS. (Not to be confused with CSI, or Crime Scene Investigation . . . though, come to think of it, perhaps there are some interesting parallels!)

At its extreme, it is called type II diabetes, in which any carbohydrate generates an extravant increase in blood sugar, followed by the domino effect of increased triglycerides, reduction in HDL, creation of small LDL, heightened inflammation, etc. and eventually to kidney disease, coronary atherosclerosis, neuropathies, etc.

An intermediate form of carbohydrate intolerance is called metabolic syndrome, or pre-diabetes. These people, for the most part, look and act like diabetics, though their reaction to carbohydrate intake is not as bad. Blood sugar, for instance, might be 125 mg/dl fasting, 160 mg/dl after eating. The semi-arbitrary definition of metabolic syndrome includes at least three of the following: HDL <40 mg/dl in men, <50 mg/dl in women; triglycerides 150 mg/dl or greater; BP 135/80 or greater; waist circumference >40 inches in men, >35 inches in women; fasting glucose >100 mg/dl.

This is where the conventional definitions stop: Either you are diabetic or have metabolic syndrome, or you have nothing at all.

Unfortunately, this means that the millions of people with patterns not severe enough to match the standard definition of metabolic syndrome are often neglected.

How about Kevin?

Kevin, a 56 year old financial planner, is 5 ft 7 inches, 180 lbs (BMI 28.2). His basic measures:

HDL 36 mg/dl
Triglycerides 333 mg/dl

BP 132/78
Waist circumference 34 inches
Blood sugar 98 mg/dl

Kevin meets the criteria for metabolic syndrome on only two of the five criteria and therefore does not "qualify" for the diagnosis.

Kevin's basic lipids showed LDL 170 mg/dl, HDL 36 mg/dl, triglycerides 333 mg/dl.

But take a look at his underlying lipoprotein patterns (NMR):

LDL particle number 2231 nmol/L (equivalent to a "true" LDL of 223 mg/dl)
Small LDL 1811 nmol/l
Large HDL 0.0 mg/dl


In other words, small LDL constitutes 81% of all LDL particles (1811/2231), a severe pattern. Large HDL is the healthy, protective fraction and Kevin has none. These are high-risk patterns for heart disease. These, too, are patterns of carbohydrate intolerance.

Foods that trigger small LDL and reduction in healthy, large HDL include sugars, wheat, and cornstarch. Kevin is carbohydrate-intolerant, although he lacks the (fasting) blood sugar aspect of carbohydrate intolerance. But he shows all the underlying lipoprotein and other metabolic phenomena associated with carbohydrate intolerance.

We could also cast all three conditions under the umbrella of "insulin resistance." But I prefer Carbohydrate Intolerance Syndrome, or CIS, since it immediately suggests the basic underlying cause: eating carbohydrates, especially those that trigger rapid and substantial surges in blood sugar.

CIS is the Disease of the Century, judging by the figures (both numbers and humans) we are seeing. It will dominate healthcare in its various forms for many years to come.

The first treatment for the Carbohydrate Intolerance Syndrome? Some would say the TZD class of drugs like Avandia. Others would say a DASH or TLC (American Heart Association) diet. How about liposuction, twice-daily Byetta injections, or even the emerging class of drugs to manipulate leptin and adiponectin? How do "heart healthy" foods like Cheerios and Cocoa Puffs fit into this? (Don't believe me? The American Heart Association says they're heart healthy!)

The first treatment for the Carbohydrate Intolerance Syndrome is elimination of carbohydrates, except those that come from raw nuts and seeds, vegetables, occasional real fruit (not those green fake grapes), wine, and dark chocolates.

Comments (28) -

  • Sarah

    1/28/2009 2:45:00 PM |

    What's a "fake grape"?

  • Anonymous

    1/28/2009 4:19:00 PM |

    Do you think instant oats, or rolled oats, are ok?

    How about grits?  

    A Southerner trying to find something to replace cheerios or bagel for breakfast!  Already gave up eggs and bacon!

  • Anonymous

    1/28/2009 6:19:00 PM |

    "green fake grapes"
    - can you expand on this or provide a link to another blog entry that explains what is wrong with these? Thanks.

  • Diana Hsieh

    1/29/2009 1:09:00 AM |

    Anonymous -- Why give up eggs and bacon?  Reducing carbs requires increasing fat intake -- and contrary to the conventional wisdom, that's a good thing for your health.  (See Gary Taubes' _Good Calories, Bad Calories_.)

  • Anonymous

    1/29/2009 1:43:00 AM |

    Green grapes:  negligible amounts of reversatol.

    AJL

  • Anonymous

    1/29/2009 2:30:00 AM |

    Yes, I'd like to know if carbs like whole, cooked oat groats and/or wild rice are okay on TYP?  These are the only grains my cardiologist allows on his program.

    Also, what about oat bran, both cooked and uncooked?

    And lastly, ground flax seed?

    madcook

  • Anne

    1/29/2009 3:06:00 AM |

    Anonymous ~ bring back the eggs. add some veges and cheese and that makes a great breakfast. When I eat bacon I buy the stuff without the nitrites. My breakfast often looks like my dinner - lots of low carb veges and protein.

    I am a Southerner and grits are too high carb for me - shoots my blood sugar up to 200. Yup, I have CIS or maybe it is T2DM. Whatever I have, keeping my carbs low seems to be working well.

  • Anonymous

    1/29/2009 4:05:00 AM |

    what's a fake grape?

  • Anna

    1/29/2009 7:59:00 AM |

    Salmon is great for breakfast, either leftover from dinner or cured salmon (gravlax).  So is a salami and cheese plate now and then, for variety.  Breakfast doesn't have to be sweet or  grainy, if one can get out of that mindset.  

    Avocado omelet, sausage (make 2-3 days worth at one time and reheat), baked custard, smoothies.  There are all sorts of great non-grain breakfasts.

  • Grapes of wrath

    1/29/2009 12:22:00 PM |

    Can't say I have heard of fake grapes, well maybe the plastic ones.

  • keith

    1/29/2009 1:17:00 PM |

    fake grapes are seedless green grapes that are effectively candy. fruit with seeds that are close to the way they occurred in nature before we mass produced them are healthier.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/29/2009 2:19:00 PM |

    Madcook--

    All are fine, with little rise in blood sugar except for the oat products, which can raise blood sugar in very carb-sensitive people.

    Ground flaxseed is the very best, with pure protein, oils (including linolenic acid), and fiber but with no digestible starches.

  • Anonymous

    1/29/2009 3:37:00 PM |

    This blog is great, that's why I added it to my top ten health blogs. www.mydailywellnesstip.com

    Jean-Luc Boissonneault

  • Frederick

    1/29/2009 7:01:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I recently received some curious results on my blood panels and am curious for your feedback. I am sorry to trouble you with my personal story but am not sure where else to go for info. I appreciate any help you can provide, in addition to what you have already done with this blog, which is a terrific resource.

    In May 2007 my blood panel looked like this:

    Total cholesterol 155
    Trigylcerides 65
    HDL 50
    LDL (calc) 92

    In Jan 2009 I received the following:

    Total cholesterol 311!
    Trigylcerides 43
    HDL 88
    LDL (calc) 214!

    I am currently 41, athletic, do high intensity short duration exercise 3-4 times/wk, low body fat, fairly good health. I changed my diet in Jan 2008 from a standard "healthy" diet to paleo style after reading Cordain's book. I followed Cordain's recommendations fairly closely for about six months, eating lots of fruits and veggies, lean meat (trimming the fat), very few starches, and nuts seeds avocados, olive oil, etc. In summer I began reading some blogs and books which recommended a diet higher in sat fats, lower in protein and lower in PUFAs, so I made some changes by severely limiting PUFAs (no more nuts, less fatty chicken and pork) and eating fattier red meat, coconut oil. I also cut down on veggies and fruits and added starches and white rice.

    While I would consider myself a little skeptical about the meaning of cholesterol tests, I am by no means an expert and was amazed by the increase in cholesterol and am very curious what this means and why. I understand that some of the numbers here (e.g. total cholesterol) don't mean much, that some of the numbers (e.g. hdl/tris ratio) are good, that LDL calc is often inaccurate, and that based on my low tris, my LDL is likely to be large and fluffy instead of small and dense. But I am still amazed by the rise and curious what it means. Should I be concerned? Why did this happen so fast? Thanks again for any guidance you can provide.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/29/2009 10:33:00 PM |

    Frederick--

    While I don't make a habit out of responding to personal questions (because they would overwhelm time demands), your changes are quite profound.

    However, there are a number of underlying processes that could account for such a change. One solution would be to obtain lipoprotein analysis to see what the true, underlying patterns are, e.g., what is measured LDL?

    Also, consider thyroid issues.

    Also consider consulting the Track Your Plaque program, in which these discussions are conducted in detail every day.

  • Anna

    1/29/2009 11:13:00 PM |

    Frederick,

    While my numbers are not exactly the same as yours (past and present), they show a similar trend since I have adopted a more paleo-oriented diet, starting about 5 years ago.  The main difference is that I am female, 47 yo (not menopausal yet, and I wouldn't call myself athletic.  I really haven't been worried about the lab numbers, though they raise my endocrinologists eyebrows.  I had my first coronary calcium scan in Dec '08 and my score was 0, no evidence of coronary artery plaque.

    Have you had a coronary calcium scan yet?  That should tell you if your coronary arteries are building plaque or not.  And of course, the detailed analysis of your lipoproteins needs to be done, too, as Dr.Davis mentioned.  

    Keep in mind, the vast majority of the studies and references for  "good" or "bad" lab results in "Westernized" people come from people who *don't* eat paleo.  So there really isn't much of a comparison data base for those Westerners who eat paleo.  Peter at Hyperlipid blog has some discussion of this "lack of comparison data issue".

  • Anonymous

    1/30/2009 4:49:00 AM |

    Frederick,

    Please join us over on the Track Your Plaque membership website.  We routinely discuss issues such as yours, there is a wealth of information there beyond Dr. Davis' book, and we are a friendly, supportive, and well informed group.

    That aside, it appears you have gotten standard blood testing.  Please get an NMR lipoprofile, Berkeley or VAP test done... you will learn so much more.

    You were eating Paleo, but then you've cut out nuts and I see this little kicker: " I also cut down on veggies and fruits and added starches and white rice."  Hummmm... that is definitely not Paleo anymore, and if you are indeed carb sensitive, those additions could completely tip the cart and put you where you appear to be now.

    And I see that Dr. Davis has mentioned thyroid issues... get your doctor to test for those.  You are now "of an age" where these issues begin to express themselves.

    If you have not had one, go get a heart scan.  You will then know where you stand with regard to plaque formation.  BTW, I am talking about a simple heart scan, not the whiz bang 64-slice thing with the big dose of radiation.  Knowledge is power in this regard.

    I have no affiliation with Dr. Davis nor Track Your Plaque, other than as a very satisfied member/subscriber for the past several years.  I would feel alone and bewildered by such issues, were it not for TYP, which is IMO the most cutting edge program available.

    Good luck to you in finding answers to your personal situation.

    madcook

  • Nameless

    1/30/2009 9:25:00 PM |

    Frederick--

    Your rise in LDL... could it simply because you increased saturated fat intake? Your HDL also increased, which would make sense too. And trigs went down.

    Whether or not this is a good thing, I'm not sure. But increased animal fats usually equals higher LDL, higher HDL, lowered trigs (assuming fats replace carb intake).

    Have you measured your C-reactive protein before and after this diet change? I'm curious if saturated fats cause more inflammation, or less.

  • Dr. B G

    1/31/2009 2:12:00 AM |

    Frederick, Diana Hsieh:

    I don't worry about your LDL -- again it is a faulty inaccurate measure as Dr. D talked about in the 'Tale of Two LDL's post.

    Your TGs are Excellent!!

    Your HDLS totally ROCK and are the envy of anyone who knows anything about heart disease (or cancer).

    If you NMR'd or VAP'd your particles -- you would find that they are ALL Large, nice fluffy PHAT buoyant particles (just like Jimmy Moore's who has a similar diet/lifestyle as you two -- no grains, low carb, mod prot, mod-high fat and exercise).

    Likewise, you'll likely find that your HDL2b which are the regressive particles and necessary for optimal longevity and health will be stunning and awesome.

    Keep up the strong work and let us know if you get a particle count and density evaluated (~$99).

    -G

  • Dr. B G

    1/31/2009 2:12:00 AM |

    Frederick, Diana Hsieh:

    I don't worry about your LDL -- again it is a faulty inaccurate measure as Dr. D talked about in the 'Tale of Two LDL's post.

    Your TGs are Excellent!!

    Your HDLS totally ROCK and are the envy of anyone who knows anything about heart disease (or cancer).

    If you NMR'd or VAP'd your particles -- you would find that they are ALL Large, nice fluffy PHAT buoyant particles (just like Jimmy Moore's who has a similar diet/lifestyle as you two -- no grains, low carb, mod prot, mod-high fat and exercise).

    Likewise, you'll likely find that your HDL2b which are the regressive particles and necessary for optimal longevity and health will be stunning and awesome.

    Keep up the strong work and let us know if you get a particle count and density evaluated (~$99).

    -G

  • Anonymous

    1/31/2009 9:05:00 PM |

    Frederick-

    I think your changes are a simple result of "added starches and white rice".
    As you can see from this post from Dr. Davis just days ago, lipid levels can change dramatically and quickly with the added starches.


    http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/making-sense-out-of-lipid-changes.html

  • Trinkwasser

    2/2/2009 6:57:00 PM |

    Here's a big amen! to this post. My FBG is usually under 90 and never over 100. My GTT came back at 193 so "not diabetic" (I've since managed "truly" diabetic numbers by eating on top of a liver dump, but they are unofficial, measured on my own meter.)

    BMI about 22 so not overweight. Fit and active.

    So the ADA calculator still tells me I am at "low risk of diabetes" and that's what doctors have told me all my life despite the most horrendous lipids, including gallstones in my twenties, rising BP, episodes going back 50 years of what I now know to be reactive hypoglycemia (they knock my A1c right down)including ferocious night sweats in childhood. And of course all the other symptoms of diabetes, nocturia, chronic skin infections etc. all blown off because I didn't show that magic FBG rise.

    Curiously all these "neurotic" "hypochondriac" "anxiety" "depression" "pretending to be ill for sympathy" "personality disorder" symptoms have normalised by doing one thing: eating the exact opposite of the "Heart Healthy" diet - so long as I keep carbs to about 60g with the odd excursion to 100g or so I produce better numbers than a lot of "normies".

    Genealogical research shows the family is riddled with "metabolic syndrome" in non-obese people along with other diabetics who were also skinny Type 2s. I don't know how many other families, let alone individuals, have these obvious but not diagnosed type patterns.

    Or how many of them could be so comparatively easily treated.

    Well OK I cheat a bit, an ARB and a statin helps with the BP and LDL but they might not have been necessary if the thing had been caught earlier, or its comparatively slow progression hadn't been speeded up courtesy of the dietician.

    Yes it doesn't take a CSI to diagnose CIS. Just someone who looks at the Big Picture.

    My worst carbohydrate is wheat, spikes my BG about as bad as sugar, I can manage small quantities in the evening though. Fruit is nearly as bad except for berries.

    I shudder at all that healthy muesli I used to shovel into my face for breakfast and swill down with orange juice. I shudder more when I see the dietician's smile of approval.

    I can handle small quantities of oatcakes at breakfast, I favour high protein moderate fat and especially fish and salad, with other meats as a change. I can do ryebread in small quantities by lunchtime. I'd eat eggs if I could stand the taste.

    Carb input goes up on a slope from 15g at breakfast to 30g and sometimes 50g by evening. Masses of veggies, fish, meat, nuts and cheese and the occasional 85% chocolate make up the rest of my diet (oh and the coffee, and red wine, so not entirely paleo).

    None of this came from Medical Professionals in real life, it all came from the interweb and was run past my BG meter. Maybe by the 22nd century it will be mainstream and the Heart Healthy High Carb Low Fat diet will be consigned to the history books as a failed experiment on an entire population.

  • Dr. William Davis

    2/2/2009 10:38:00 PM |

    Trinkwasser--

    Thanks for sharing your wonderfully insightful experience.

    Do I have your permission to feature your comment as the focus of a blog post?

  • Trinkwasser

    2/6/2009 9:07:00 PM |

    You're more than welcome! I like to get my story out as it is a direct opposite of the standard "you made yourself ill through sloth and gluttony" accusation. Big major thanks must go to my late Aunt who did a lot of the genealogical research which discovered the pattern (she was told at 80 she had the blood pressure of a 30 year old, I was the exact opposite!) and died at 88 of an aneurysm: this despite being slightly overweight. So the genes can be survivable so long as we are careful!

  • Small business web site design

    4/3/2009 12:29:00 PM |

    nice  collection

  • Timothy Murphy, MD

    4/18/2009 4:14:00 PM |

    The amazing story of the ascent of the Keys Hypothesis regarding the connection between dietary fat and heart disease is well documented in "Good Calories, Bad Calories", by Gary Taubes.

    As a pediatrician, I do not often counsel about heart disease. But I do deal with obesity in children, and as I am now in my 50's, I am caring more because of my own health.

    The bottom line is that virtually everything we learned about preventing heart disease in medical school is wrong or untested, and an alternative hypothesis has existed that has been largely untested - yet is simpler (and therefore better).

    The role of glucose and insulin in the evolution of obesity and the development of heart disease is finally becoming clear(er), and with the definition of the Metabolic Syndrome, is becoming more "main stream". But the primary drivers of policy (NIH/NHLBI, FDA and ASDA) will not change their recommendations regarding carbohydrate intake.

    It is time for individuals to take charge of their own diet, and the information I have found here is all to the good. I am glad I found this blog.

    TM, Pittsburgh

  • Kelvin

    9/4/2009 12:45:22 PM |

    I am a classic CSI class and after running 5km for 1 1/2 years my blood stayed CSI classic as well, I didn'y follow a good diet but kept my weight down due to excerise - so then it happened - ventricle fibrulation - down for 6 min not breathing while I was shocked and had CPR - had bypass surgery - 46 yrs - read my story google "A hug for his life savers". Following a low card diet now my email is kwillikj@gmail.com

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 2:41:40 PM |

    Foods that trigger small LDL and reduction in healthy, large HDL include sugars, wheat, and cornstarch. Kevin is carbohydrate-intolerant, although he lacks the (fasting) blood sugar aspect of carbohydrate intolerance. But he shows all the underlying lipoprotein and other metabolic phenomena associated with carbohydrate intolerance.

Loading
Red flags for lipoprotein(a)

Red flags for lipoprotein(a)



Lipoprotein(a), Lp(a), is an important cause for heart disease, heart attack, and coronary atherosclerotic plaque.

How do you know you have it?

Of course, it could be as simple as checking a blood level. But there are also a number of red flags for the presence of Lp(a), tell-tale signs that suggest it is present and contributing to the growth of coronary plaque.

I've seen so much of this pattern over the years that it's gotten so that I can pretty much pick out most of the people with Lp(a) just by either looking at them or by hearing their story. I do this simply by knowing what hints to look for.

Some of the red flags for Lp(a) include:

--High blood pressure in a slender person. Overweight is the overwhelmingly common reason for high blood pressure. However, inappropriate high blood pressure in a slender person can serve to tip you off that Lp(a) is present.

--HIgh LDL cholesterol poorly responsive to statin drugs. For instance, someone's LDL cholesterol of 190 mg/dl will be treated with Lipitor 40 mg, but drops to only 165 mg/dl, a very poor response. This can sometimes point towards Lp(a).

--Family clustering of heart disease in people before age 60. For instance, father with heart attack age 53, uncle with heart attack at age 55, aunt with heart attack age 59, etc. This clustering of risk, more often than not, signals Lp(a).

--Coronary disease or high heart scan score in the presence of relatively bland appearing lipids. For instance, LDL cholesterol 130 mg/dl, HDL 55 mg/dl, triglycerides 70 mg/dl on no medications or other efforts--figures ordinarily not associated with high likelihood of heart disease--yet heart disease is indeed present. This can mean that Lp(a) is the concealed culprit behind coronary atherosclerosis.

These red flags are not perfect. If you lack any of them, it doesn't necessarily rule out the possbility of having Lp(a). They simply serve as signs to suggest that Lp(a) may be lurking.

Once Lp(a) is identified, then the battle begins to gain control over this somewhat troublesome genetic pattern. Resourcesfulness and some ingenuity may be required. However, knowing that you have it shows you where to concentrate your efforts.

Comments (24) -

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 1:03:00 AM |

    I wish I knew more about exactly what Lp(a) will do that will cause me problems.  I have high Lp(a)(22 on my VAP test).

    I am 5'2" and weight 110.  I am a fitness professional -  healthy blood pressure level.

    My TC at it's worse was 226 with low Trig, high HDL, and high LDL (144).  My Dr wanted me to get the LDL down with drugs.  I chose the supplement path, and increased my fiber intake.

    My TC is now around 224, but my HDL is 86, and LDL 118.  My real LDL size pattern is A/B.  My HDL 2 & 3, and VLDL 3 are all in the desireable range.

    Oh - I do have a family history of heart disease (mother had strokes in her 60s).

    I had a heart scan - no measurable plaque found.  I'm 55 years old.

    That darn LpInnocent.  Should I be worried it's going to do something I'm not aware of?

    Bonnie

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 1:41:00 AM |

    Yes. You might have a Lp(a) variant that accounts more for carotid disease than coronary disease, judging from your mom's history. Also, you are still young. Some women will not fully express Lp(a) characteristics until their late 50s.

    All the principles we talk about for Lp(a) on the Track Your Plaque website still apply. Also, please see our upcoming report that summarizes unique strategies for Lp(a) treatment to be released in the next two weeks.

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 5:32:00 AM |

    If Bonnie thinks her LP(a) at 22 is high, I guess mine is high also at 24, but at least its a whole lot better than it was 18 months ago when it was 52.   I attribute the reduction to DMAE and NAC,thanks to your recomendations, Dr. Davis.

    Your list of possible examples of high LP(a) just doesn't include me.

    My BMI is 21.  I have relatively low blood pressure,95-110 over 70.  My age is 65.   Total Chol=190; LDL=110  HDL>65 and sometimes as high as 100.  Low Trigs < 70.

    No family history (mother still kicking at 95). Father died in hi 70's from pancreatic cancer with a very strong heart and lung system.  And yet I have had a really high LP(a)!!!

    I can't afford a CT scan, as much as I would like to get one, but I did have a lipoprotein breakdown which showed
    VLDL=25; LDL particle number 789 dense LDL IV=101 HDL Total=9066 and Buoyant HDL 2b=2528.  All  measured in (nmol/L).  My density was neither A nor B, but in an intermediate zone near the A border.

    My homocysteine is raised (12.26) probably because of the 750mg of Slo-Niacin I take, but I'm trading niacin's lipid enhancements for it.

    When my LP(a) was at 52, all blood work was similar to now, weight was the same, exercise, diet, everything was the same.   I don't understand why it was so high.   I was hoping your list would give me a clue, but I'm just not on it!!!

    Noreen

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 6:44:00 AM |

    Thanks.  My mom unfortunately led an extremely sedentary lifestyle, and didn't eat well or take care of herself.  I always assumed her strokes were a result of that.  I guess it was probably part of it, but not all of it.

    I did not know about Carotid disease - seems all I ever hear about is Heart Disease these days.

    I look forward to finding out more about the new approaches to dealing with Lp(a)!

    Bonnie

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 1:36:00 PM |

    Hi, Noreen-
    I'm curious about the DMAE. I've used it (unsuccessfully) for memory enhancement, but not to reduce Lp(a). What is the basis for this?

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 3:45:00 PM |

    Big Goof, Dr. D!!!  I was tired and didn't get up to check my supplements.  I'm taking 50mg of DHEA for lowering the LP(a)!!!

    Sorry, thats what I get for getting into this stuff so late at night!!!

    I'm still at a loss as why mine went so high (52)!!!   Especially with no family history of heart disease.

    Noreen

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 4:11:00 PM |

    Noreen - your post reminded me of something that I find curious.

    When I first had my Lp(a) tested it wsa a separate test from my Cholesterol test.  Results came back 59 wih a reference range of  0-29.  

    Next time it was measured it was part of a VAP test, and when I saw it at 22 I thought it had dropped (by some miracle Smile.  Then I noticed the reference range was different, and that the high end of the range was 10.  

    Different tests maybe?

    Bonnie

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 6:00:00 PM |

    Thanks Bonnie -- Yes, it was different labs, but the reference range was less than 30 on each one.   I did read somewhere that some labs use less than 20 as the normal range, but these two labs used < 30.

    This lab also did a nutrient profile and found that I was deficient in pantothenate, glutamine and glutathione.   I was already taking 500mg NAC, but they recommended 1000mg, so I'm now taking 1200mg of Jarrow Sustain NAC in hopes it will satisfy the glutathione deficiency and lower that LP(a) further.  

    I also started taking pantothenate to satisfy that and read that it can reduce LDL, so I'm hopefull there.   I upped the glutamine that I was already taking and switched to a powder form.

    Thanks,
    Noreen

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 7:41:00 PM |

    Hi, Noreen-
    Somebody, Mom or Dad, had to give you Lp(a), though the expression and consequences of Lp(a) can vary.

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 8:25:00 PM |

    Is it a dominant characteristic from just one parent or can it be a recessive one from both with neither having it?   I don't think my mom has ever been tested, but her doctor said her heart is still very strong at 95.    My paternal grandfather died of a massive heart attack at 78.  Before that he was hospitalized several times with fluid in his chest (cardio-myapthy) maybe?

    I was under the impression that if it were genetic that nothing will reduce it.  Is this wrong?   Mine did come down to 24 after taking the NAC and DHEA.   I'm really looking forward to reading that paper on lowering it too.  Thanks so much,
    Noreen

  • Bad_CRC

    1/17/2008 9:09:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis, just to clarify:

    1. Lp(a) is not like IDL, where having any measurable amount is abnormal, right?  Mine was 7 mg/dL, and I took this to mean that I don't "have Lp(a)."

    2. Also unlike IDL, small LDL, etc., it's purely hereditary and not a symptom of metabolic syndrome or similar, correct?  So if I don't have it at 30, I don't need to worry about developing it by 50?

    Thanks

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 10:26:00 PM |

    Lp(a) is genetic but blood levels are manipulable. But Mom or Dad HAD to give it to you, they just may not have fully expressed its consequences (which does happen occassionally, for not entirely clear reasons).

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 10:28:00 PM |

    Hi, Bad--
    Yes, correct on both counts.

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 10:33:00 PM |

    But Mom or Dad HAD to give it to you, they just may not have fully expressed its consequences (which does happen occassionally, for not entirely clear reasons).

    So Dr. Davis, are you saying that if you have this genetic marker, that it is inevitable that at some point down the line it will do bad things - no matter how good all of the rest of your risk factors are? (assuming there continues to be no reliable way to reduce it).

    Bonnie

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 10:54:00 PM |

    No, not inevitable, but darn close. It could be expressed as hearet disease, carotid disease, aneurysms, or just hypertension.

  • Anonymous

    1/18/2008 2:29:00 AM |

    Are there any major differences between  Lp(a) testing via a VAP test as compared to NMR?

    VAP seems to use a lower test range (over 10 being considered high). Does this mean their test is different than others, or simply they use a lower marker to differentiate between high and low? And would a Lp(a) test via VAP be as accurate as one from NMR, etc,?

    My VAP numbers for Lp(a) was pretty low, around 4-5, if I remember right. I just want to make sure this was an accurate test.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/18/2008 1:19:00 PM |

    There are several methodological differences among the various Lp(a) measures. For this reason, I advise everyone to always stick with the same laboratory. There may also be differences in the validity or accuracy. This is detailed in a full Special Report on the Track Your Plaque website.

  • Joan

    1/18/2008 8:54:00 PM |

    My Lp(a) score came back at 160--that's right--160!  I have a stent in one artery, obviously I have CAD.  I presently take Zocor 20 mg. and an Ace Inhibitor drug.  I can not take Niacin---what can I do?


       Joan

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2008 2:35:00 AM |

    Dr Davis,
    My Cardiologist has me on 1500mg Niacin which reduces LP(a)to around 30 and that seems to be about the lowest I can get it, as more Niacin gives me a rash. So He says we need to reduce LDL as low as possible by diet,exercise and possibly a low Statin dose. Reducing the amount of carriers, He says, will negate to a large degree, the risk of my high LP(a). Does this sound like sound treatment?   Thanks.....

  • Dr. Davis

    1/19/2008 5:06:00 AM |

    That sounds like a very solid approach to Lp(a). Congratulations to your doctor for being up to date in his thinking about Lp(a).

    Also, watch for an upcoming report on our Track Your Plaque website for a review of unique therapies for Lp(a).

  • Dr. Davis

    1/19/2008 5:13:00 AM |

    I'm afraid that's a bit too much to handle in a blog post.

    You are invited to read our Track Your Plaque Special Reports on Lp(a), including an upcoming review of unique therapies to be posted within the next two weeks.

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2008 5:40:00 AM |

    Also, watch for an upcoming report on our Track Your Plaque website for a review of unique therapies for Lp(a)

    Can you see me tapping my foot..... impatiently.....  

    Smile  
    (Just kidding)


    I hesitate to take Niacin because I have a tendency toward slightly high liver enzymes for some reason (possibly mild NAFLD since all other tests came back negative), and I've read Niacin can raise liver enzymes.  I look forward to hearing about other possibilities.

    Bonnie

  • Anonymous

    2/20/2008 6:50:00 PM |

    SO after all is said and done should a LP(a) redaing of 12 be of any concern? It is noted as "high" on my VAP test but it certainly is close to normal. All of my other readings on the VAP are normal.

    John

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 2:26:48 PM |

    These red flags are not perfect. If you lack any of them, it doesn't necessarily rule out the possbility of having Lp(a). They simply serve as signs to suggest that Lp(a) may be lurking.

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