Equal calories, different effects

A great study was just published in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology:

Metabolic effects of weight loss on a very-low-carbohydrate diet compared with an isocaloric high-carbohydrate diet in abdominally obese subjects.

88 obese adults with metabolic syndrome were placed on either of two diets:

1) A very low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet (VLCHF): 4% calories from carbohydrates (truly low-carb); 35% protein; 61% fat, of which 20% were saturated. In the first 8 weeks, carbohydrate intake was severely limited to <20 grams per day, then <40 grams per day thereafter.

2) A high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet (HCLF): 46% calories from carbohydrates; 24% protein; 30% total fat, of which <8% were saturated.

Both diets were equal in calories (around 1400 calories per day--rather restrictive) and participants were maintained on the program for six months.

At the end of the six month period, participants on the VLCHF diet lost 26.4 lb, those on the HCLF diet 22.2 lbs (though the difference did not reach statistical significance). Thus, both approaches were spectacularly successful at weight loss.

Surprisingly, blood pressure, blood sugar, insulin and insulin sensitivity (a measure called HOMA) were all improved with both diets equally. Thus, these measures seemed to respond more to weight loss and less to the food composition.

Lipids differed between the two diets, however:


VLCHF:
Total cholesterol: initial 208.4 mg/dl final 207.7 mg/dl

LDL: initial 125 mg/dl final 123 mg/dl

HDL: initial 55 mg/dl final 64.5 mg/dl

Triglycerides: initial 144 mg/dl final 74 mg/dl

Apoprotein B: initial 98 mg/dl final 96 mg/dl


HCLF
Total cholesterol: initial 208.4 mg/dl final 187.5 mg/dl

LDL: initial 126 mg/dl final 108 mg/dl

HDL: initial 51 mg/dl final 54.5 mg/dl

Triglycerides: initial 157.6 mg/dl final 111 mg/dl

Apoprotein B: initial 100 mg/dl final 95 mg/dl


Some interesting differences became apparent:
--The VLCHF diet more effectively reduced triglycerides and raised HDL.
--The HCLF diet more effectively reduced total and LDL.
--There was no difference in Apo B (no statistical difference).

The investigators also made the observation that individual responsiveness to the diets differed substantially. They concluded that both diets appeared to exert no adverse effect on any of the parameters measured, both were approximately equally effective in weight loss with slight advantage with the carbohydrate restricted diet, and that lipid effects were indeed somewhat different.


What lessons can we learn from this study? I would propose/extrapolate several:

When calories are severely restricted, the composition of diet may be less important. However, when calories are not so severely restricted, then composition may assume a larger role. When calories are unrestricted, I would propose that the carbohydrate restriction approach may yield larger effects on weight loss and on lipids when compared to a low-fat diet.

The changes in total cholesterol are virtually meaningless. Part of the reason that it didn't drop with the VLCHF diet is that HDL cholesterol increased. In other words, total cholesterol = LDL + HDL + trig/5. A rise in HDL raises total cholesterol.

Despite no change in Apo B, if NMR lipoprotein analysis had been performed (or other assessment of LDL particle size made), then there would almost certainly have seen a dramatic shift from undesirable small LDL to less harmful large LDL particles on the VLCHF diet, less change on the HCLF diet.

The lack of restriction of saturated fat in the VLCHF that failed to yield adverse effects is interesting. It would be conssistent with the re-analysis of saturated fat as not-the-villain-we thought-it-was put forward by people like Gary Taubes (Good Calories, Bad Calories).

In the Track Your Plaque experience, small LDL is among the most important measures of all for coronary plaque reversal and control. Unfortunately, although this study was well designed and does add to the developing scientific exploration of diet, it doesn't add to our insight into small LDL effects. But if I had to make a choice, I'd choose the low-carbohydrate, high-fat approach for overall benefit.

Comments (15) -

  • MAC

    1/9/2008 1:55:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis,
        You have to check out Dr. Eades blog on the same study. You both had different takes but came to the same conclusion. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

  • Dr. Davis

    1/9/2008 3:22:00 AM |

    Hi, MAC--

    Thanks for pointing out Dr. Eades post.

    I've lately come to read his posts regularly, as I have been thoroughly impressed with his insights.

    It's good to know there's some real thinkers out there!

  • rick

    1/9/2008 4:37:00 AM |

    Had the HCLF group enjoyed the same nearly 50% drop in TG as the VLCHF group, their calculated LDL would have dropped to 117 rather than 108.  So part of their comparative advantage is not a benefit at all.

  • Anonymous

    1/9/2008 5:33:00 AM |

    Hello,

    Dr. Davis, what is your viewpoint on saturated fat intake and arterial damage? Although perhaps saturated fat doesn't affect lipid values too negatively (in fact, it seems to raise HDL), maybe it can eventually lead to heart disease by other means -- inflammation/damage to arteries, leading to plaque build-up?

    There is a reference to a study here, which you've probably seen:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060808091635.htm

    I'm curious on your viewpoints, as we know not all fats are bad, but it seems a little muddy as to if certain saturated fats are bad or not.

  • chcikadeenorth

    1/9/2008 5:37:00 AM |

    Hi, you commented once on my high hdl..68...it happened after I low carbed, high calories( plus 1800 a day) and hi fat but under 20 gr of sat fat a day.My Ldl went up but lipoprotein(a) was still within the norm not for TYP but for lab values,
    I hear nothing but good results  with LC going back to Atkins,Bernsteins, Eades, Westman and you Dr D so keep plodding along. Soon everyone will know what a wheat belly is and rather than plod you'll be galloping writing another book SmileThnx for all.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/9/2008 1:33:00 PM |

    Most of the feeding studies like the one you cited are flawed in that they claim to have isolated the effect of saturated fat on some measure, brachial forearm dilatation, in this instance. Unfortunately, they did no such thing. They did not control well for carbohydrate effects. Gary Taubes would point out that they presumed that carbohydrates are good and therefore all adverse effects must be from the saturated fat component.

    We are planning a thorough review of the issue in future.

  • g

    1/9/2008 4:50:00 PM |

    You know... I'd love to see the CAC scores (or even IMT if possible?) for people on Protein Power?  Has that ever been studied?  Mac, have you ever had an EBT/CT scan? (are you > 40 yr?)

    I think that would be very very COOL data Smile   Thanks for sharing -- I've checked DR. Eades out since you started posting...  His wife does a nice 'tablescape' like Sandra Lee!  
    I loved his post on foie gras!  That's what I tell my elevated liver test patients -- they are making their fatty livers into FOIE GRAS (and good think I'm not Hannibal... but I like chianti *ha ahaaa*).

    g

  • andyj

    1/9/2008 5:53:00 PM |

    While I would dearly love to try this myself, I am still (as always) having a mental problem with the high-fat part.  I am currently trying to fine tune a plan to do a calorie-restricted diet (about 1600 calories) but I'm not sure how low I can get the carbohydrate segment to go  -- certainly not under 10%.   Most of the fat will be from nuts and chocolate (and salmon and sardines) and I will certainly do a NMR after the fact.  The biggest problem is crafting something you can actually live with for an extended period of time, not just a couple of months.  Therein lies the real problem.  Maybe we should just stop eating altogether!  I have plans for a blog entry on just this subject --  what if we ate only when we truly had to?  Some days I'd have no problem dropping down to about 1000 calories a day, but of course then exercise would be out of the question.  Yeah, this plan still needs some tinkering before I attempt it.  
              andysheart.blogspot.com

  • MAC

    1/9/2008 8:01:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
       New paper on Vitamin D and heart diseases. Paper says they cannot recommend testing for Vit D nor recommend supplementaion for those with a known deficiency.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases
    /2008/01/080107181600.htm

    To g: I am over 40 and only low carbing recently. Previous to that used vegan diet to lose weight successfully. Have not had a heart scan yet but seriously thinking of it as my father was diagnosed with Type 2 at 65 and had quadruple bypass.

    P.S. Went to doc the other day and we decided to do some blood work since it had been while and unbeknownst to me until I looked at the paper work he had ordered a Vit D 25OH test and I got him to order a lipoprotein analysis for the lipid part. No discussion, he agreed. I think he keeps up on  latest research.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/9/2008 8:25:00 PM |

    Hi, MAC--

    Progress!

  • MAC

    1/9/2008 11:18:00 PM |

    FYI.

    Posted by me on Dr. Eades site:

    "You and Dr. Davis both reviewed the same study in your respective blogs on the same day. Bit of different takes but same conclusion. http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

    Hi MAC–

    I’m a reader of Dr. Davis’ blog from time to time. I guess today that great minds thought alike.

  • g

    1/10/2008 4:20:00 AM |

    MAC -- it sounds like you have a biochem background too?  Yes, I agree many great thinkers are coming up with vastly similar conclusions!  I think that the best balance betw being fed and 'fasting' maybe key (didn't u discuss earlier?). Where is that? maybe being mildly ketotic? at 5-10? or 0-20?  for CAD who knows yet?

    Here's an example of industry looking for a single drug ligand/target (a $325 million one)...  The answer has already been discovered.  you've found it, dude!  I'm not sure about the relationship betw protein and plaque and CAD yet...  do you have some insights?

    http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/01/08/rna-mania-genzyme-drops-325-million-on-cholesterol-shot/#comment-60086

    THANKS!! g

  • MAC

    1/10/2008 3:24:00 PM |

    To g: I think you have me confused with another poster. Sorry don't think that was me. Maybe Peter? Minor in chemistry and lots of science courses but no biochem.

    BTW, the great mind in this case was Dr. Davis, and that was Dr. Eades paying him the compliment.

  • g

    1/10/2008 8:49:00 PM |

    Sorry for the confusion -- so many quality post-ers here!  It's great that you're considering starting on vit D -- it improved insulin sensivity in a small trial 60% (that's more than any drug out there like metformin or Actos).

  • chickadeenorth

    1/11/2008 7:45:00 PM |

    g et al  do you have some reading material about Vit D improving insulin resistance I could take to my doc. I am on 4000 units a day, haven't noticed any difference but it is only about 2 weeks now.

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Do "Heart Healthy" sterols cause heart disease?

Do "Heart Healthy" sterols cause heart disease?

The sterol question continues to pop up.

Sterols are an ingredient widely added by food manufacturers that allows a "heart healthy" claim, since sterols have been shown to reduce LDL cholesterol (at least transiently). HOWEVER, sterols have also been implicated in possibly increasing risk for heart disease. After all, people with the genetic condition called sitosterolemia absorb sterols into the blood and develop coronary heart disease in their teens and twenties. Those of us without sitosterolemia who increase sterol intake with sterol-enriched foods increase blood levels of sterols several-fold. Is this healthy, or does it contribute to coronary plaque as it does in people with sitosterolemia?

Below, I've reprinted a previous Heart Scan Blog post on sterols.


Sterols should be outlawed

While sterols occur naturally in small quantities in food (nuts, vegetables, oils), food manufacturers are adding them to processed foods in order to earn a "heart healthy" claim.

The FDA approved a cholesterol-reducing indication for sterols , the American Heart Association recommends 200 mg per day as part of its Therapeutic Lifestyle Change diet, and WebMD gushes about the LDL-reducing benefits of sterols added to foods.


Sterols--the same substance that, when absorbed to high levels into the blood in a genetic disorder called "sitosterolemia"--causes extravagant atherosclerosis in young people.

The case against sterols, studies documenting its coronary disease- and valve disease-promoting effects, is building:

Higher blood levels of sterols increase cardiovascular events:
Plasma sitosterol elevations are associated with an increased incidence of coronary events in men: results of a nested case-control analysis of the Prospective Cardiovascular Münster (PROCAM) study.

Sterols can be recovered from diseased aortic valves:
Accumulation of cholesterol precursors and plant sterols in human stenotic aortic valves.

Sterols are incorporated into carotid atherosclerotic plaque:
Plant sterols in serum and in atherosclerotic plaques of patients undergoing carotid endarterectomy.




Though the data are mixed:

Moderately elevated plant sterol levels are associated with reduced cardiovascular risk--the LASA study.

No association between plasma levels of plant sterols and atherosclerosis in mice and men.




The food industry has vigorously pursued the sterol-as-heart-healthy strategy, based on studies conclusively demonstrating LDL-reducing effects. But do sterols that gain entry into the blood increase atherosclerosis regardless of LDL reduction? That's the huge unanswered question.

Despite the uncertainties, the list of sterol-supplemented foods is expanding rapidly:




Each Nature Valley Healthy Heart Bar contains 400 mg sterols.












HeartWise orange juice contains 1000 mg sterols per 8 oz serving.













Promise SuperShots contains 400 mg sterols per container.














Corozonas has an entire line of chips that contain added sterols, 400 mg per 1 oz serving.














MonaVie Acai juice, "Pulse," contains 400 mg sterols per 2 oz serving.














Kardea olive oil has 500 mg sterols per 14 gram serving.










WebMD has a table that they say can help you choose "foods" that are sterol-rich.

In my view, sterols should not have been approved without more extensive safety data. Just as Vioxx's potential for increasing heart attack did not become apparent until after FDA approval and widespread use, I fear the same may be ahead for sterols: dissemination throughout the processed food supply, people using large, unnatural quantities from multiple products, eventually . . . increased heart attacks, strokes, aortic valve disease.

Until there is clarification on this issue, I would urge everyone to avoid sterol-added "heart healthy" products.


Some more info on sterols in a previous Heart Scan Blog post: Are sterols the new trans fat? .

Comments (19) -

  • steve

    9/9/2009 1:58:35 PM |

    Dr Davis:  Does this include Benecol and Take Control?

  • Kathy Hall

    9/9/2009 2:04:42 PM |

    Dr. Davis:

    The prostate supplement I give my husband has what is called Phytosterol Complex consisting of 400 mg free sterols and 180 mg of beta-sitosterol.

    I was under the impression for years that beta-sitosterol was good for the prostate.  

    Are these prostate supplements dangerous?

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/9/2009 5:53:39 PM |

    Hi, Steve--

    Benecol is okay, since it has stanol esters which do not enter the blood.

    Take Control is a sterol ester product.

    Kathy--

    Yes, these would fall under sterols.

  • Anonymous

    9/9/2009 6:50:51 PM |

    What I find baffling about sterols, and some cholesterol drugs too, is the fact the FDA approves them (or their labeling) on the basis they supposedly reduce heart disease, without... well, ever checking if they do in fact reduce heart disease. Zetia would be one example in the drug world.

    Wouldn't it be much nicer if they tested plaque reduction (calcium scoring or even carotid artery ultrasounds), instead of relying on a number that may not matter (cholesterol)?

  • Ross

    9/9/2009 7:11:45 PM |

    This would seem to be yet another case of franken-foods gone wrong.

    Ross's rule of thumb: if a product's packaging argues that it's an especially healthy food, it's probably not food at all.

  • Anonymous

    9/10/2009 7:10:56 AM |

    Web_MD ought to be renamed into Web-Quack. Hardly ever have I seen a site that is so full of crap...

  • Anonymous

    9/10/2009 11:14:54 PM |

    A bit on the side, but related to wheat, and might be of interest:

    Celiac Disease Associated with Dilated Cardiomyopathy.

    South Med J. 2009 Sep 4;
    Authors: Lodha A, Haran M, Hollander G, Frankel R, Shani J

    Celiac disease is an intestinal disorder caused by an immunologic response to gluten, which results in diffuse damage to the proximal small intestinal mucosa with malabsorption of nutrients. An association between celiac disease and nonischemic dilated cardiomyopathy has been noted. Cardiomyopathy has been shown to improve in some patients on a gluten-free diet. We report a case of progressively worsening dilated cardiomyopathy in a patient with documented celiac disease.

    PMID: 19738524 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

    Best wishes from Norway

  • Brate

    9/11/2009 5:22:21 AM |

    According to the American Heart Association, heart disease is the nation's single leading cause of death for both men and women. At least 58.8 million people in this country suffer from some form of heart disease.
    And on the whole, cardiovascular diseases (the combination of heart disease and stroke) kill some 950,000 Americans every year.
    Still, there are many misconceptions about heart disease: "The biggest misconception is that heart disease only happens to the elderly," said Elizabeth Schilling, CRNP with the Center for Preventive Cardiology Program at the University of Maryland Medical Center.
    In fact, according to the American Heart Association, almost 150,00 Americans killed by cardiovascular disease each year are under the age of 65. And one out of every 20 people below the age of 40 has heart disease.
    So, it is now a wise decision to keep a constant monitoring of your health. Why to take a chance if we have the option. I was in the similar misconception that heart disease are far away waiting for me to get aged. But to my surprise, I was found to be having a calcium deposit in my coronary arteries. I need to have my advance diagnostic scans due reassure whether something really deadly is waiting for me. Though it was some dreadful going on in my life, but I never felt any kind of discomfort in Elitehealth.com advanced diagnostic facility. They were having some of the latest diagnostic equipments and non invasive techniques which made me feel safe.

  • Sifter

    9/13/2009 2:03:10 AM |

    I believe Elitehealth.com performs CAT scans for the heart, as posted on their website. I also believe Dr. Davis wrote that these are very high radiation tests, equal approximately to 100 Xrays, compared to the EBT tests that equal roughly 4 Xrays. Your choice....

  • Anonymous

    9/13/2009 7:10:45 AM |

    Does one need to worry about the sterols in nuts and oils? What levels are we talking about that should be avoided?

    Thanks

  • Anonymous

    9/14/2009 4:15:03 PM |

    Interesting comment about nuts. They are usually considered heart-healthy, but are they really?

    They are high in Omega 6s and sterols. Just because they can influence cholesterol in a positive way, doesn't mean they are good for you. I've wondered about that too.

  • Kismet

    9/16/2009 11:25:12 PM |

    Anonymous, yeah IIRC they are. Some observational trials clearly suggested that nuts in moderation decrease CVD risk.

    again IIRC.

  • trinkwasser

    10/2/2009 3:45:57 PM |

    I suspect another U curve, or J curve: possibly the small quantities of natural sterols in nuts are beneficial, which has led to their use in overdose quantities, which isn't (unless you're a shareholder in a foodlike substance manufacturing company - if they're cheap enough to manufacture that you can displace more expensive ingredients from your product, then mark up the price with a "heart healthy" tag you're on to a winner)

  • denparser

    10/4/2009 11:54:39 AM |

    minute maid... i regularly drink that. wow, i don't even know that it has a good nutritional effect.

  • x.ds

    11/22/2009 5:43:25 AM |

    Dr. Davis:

    Vitamin D is a steroid and chemically related to phytosterols. As a result it's my feeling that prolonged supplementation with vitamin D will cause atherosclerosis and promote coronary plaques like phytosterols.

    It's an established medical fact that high dose of vitamin D causes atherosclerosis but a small intake of it for many months may have the same effect since vitamin D like phytosterols and corticosteroids bioaccumulates in the body.

    After personally taking sarsaparilla and butcher's broom root (both rich in phytosterols) for a long time I had persistent low-grade fever. After reading that squalene inhibited the action of fat-soluble cancer-causing agents I thought it may bind phytosterols too. I tested it and after 2 weeks my fever disappeared. Upon discontinuation of squalene a few weeks later fever did not return.

  • shaheel

    9/27/2010 12:57:24 PM |

    Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 6:47:48 PM |

    HOWEVER, sterols have also been implicated in possibly increasing risk for heart disease. After all, people with the genetic condition called sitosterolemia absorb sterols into the blood and develop coronary heart disease in their teens and twenties. Those of us without sitosterolemia who increase sterol intake with sterol-enriched foods increase blood levels of sterols several-fold. Is this healthy, or does it contribute to coronary plaque as it does in people with sitosterolemia?

  • highchords

    12/16/2010 6:38:08 AM |

    Would help people for getting aware of the negative aspects of the taking eatables containing sterols. Would be helpful in preventing the heart prone diseases.
    Thanks,

    Heart Disease

  • Anonymous

    12/25/2010 7:43:10 PM |

    absolutely wrong i think if this were the case can u beleive Dr. william Davis , that almost all Countries including the stringent Canada is allowing Foods Fortified with plant sterols to be sold in retail chains , being a Doc . u shud be careful of scaring the people and hence depleting them of a cure for a Potential Fatal Heart Condition , here are some Conclusion of a study preformed recently :  Several experimental studies in normal and apolipoprotein-E-deficient mice in the study by Weingärtner et al. (6) indicated that the increase in serum plant sterol contents with diet-enriched plant sterol ester consumption worsens arterial function. Humans consuming a diet enriched with plant sterol esters had increased contents of plant sterols in serum and in atherosclerotic aortic valves. However, it remains open whether high plant sterol levels in aortic valves cause atherosclerosis. Even though excessively increased serum plant sterols in serum of sitosterolemic patients with mutated plant sterol metabolism can result in early atheromatosis, no consistent association is available with serum plant sterols and atheromatosis under normal conditions.
    Pls reply Doc Smile

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Does fish oil cause blood thinning?

Does fish oil cause blood thinning?

Omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil have the capacity to "thin the blood." In reality, omega-3s exert a mild platelet-blocking effect (platelet activation and "clumping" are part of clot formation), while also inhibiting arachidonic acid formation and thromboxane.

But can fish oil cause excessive bleeding?

This question comes up frequently in the office, particularly when my colleagues see the doses of fish oil we use for cardiovascular protection. "Why so much fish oil? That's too much blood thinning!"

The most recent addition to the conversation comes from a Philadelphia experience reported in the American Journal of Cardiology:

Comparison of bleeding complications with omega-3 fatty acids + aspirin + clopidogrel--versus--aspirin + clopidogrel in patients with cardiovascular disease.(Watson et al; Am J Cardiol 2009 Oct 15;104(8):1052-4).

All 364 subjects in the study took aspirin and Plavix (a platelet-inhibiting drug), mostly for coronary disease. Mean dose aspirin = 161 mg/day; mean dose Plavix = 75 mg/day. 182 of the subjects were also taking fish oil, mean dose 3000 mg with unspecified omega-3 content.

During nearly 3 years of observation, there was no excess of bleeding events in the group taking fish oil. (In fact, the group not taking fish oil had more bleeding events, though the difference fell short of achieving statistical significance.) Thus, 3000 mg per day of fish oil appeared to exert no observable increase in risk for bleeding. This is consistent with several other studies, including that including Coumadin (warfarin), with no increased bleeding risk when fish oil is added.

Rather than causing blood thinning, I prefer to think that omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil restore protection from abnormal clotting. Taking omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil simply restores a normal level of omega-3 fatty acids in the blood sufficient to strike a healthy balance between blood "thinning" and healthy blood clotting.

Comments (20) -

  • Marc

    10/26/2009 9:46:32 PM |

    Long time reader, first comment.
    Thank you for so freely sharing all the information.

    Marc

  • Daniel

    10/26/2009 11:02:46 PM |

    Thank you for this!  I have had this question for a long time given the number of things I take that "thin the blood."

  • Kevin

    10/26/2009 11:44:45 PM |

    As a veterinarian I've dispensed fish oil capsules for several years.  Some owners give so many that the dogs smell 'fishy' when seen for routine care.  The owner doesn't smell it since they're with the dog a lot.  The coats are gorgeous, something that doesn't often happen in Wyoming at 7000ft altitude.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/26/2009 11:47:45 PM |

    Hi, Kevin--

    My two Boston terriers jump for their fish oil capsules, two every day!

    I'm glad to hear from a veterinarian that the coat sheen is indeed from the fish oil.

  • Rich

    10/27/2009 1:27:09 AM |

    Due to an afib episode a couple of years ago, I was taking 20 mg of warfarin per day, plus around 5000 mg of EPA+DHA, and never had bleeding issues.  

    My INR was always a stable 2.0.

    As I've not had an afib reoccurrence, I've replaced the 20mg coumadin with 325mg aspirin daily, and still take around 5000 mg EPA+DHA.  No bleeding issues with that combo either.

  • Catherine

    10/27/2009 3:55:32 AM |

    Glad this topic came up.
    Over the last 5 years, I've had to periodically eliminate my fish oil intake as I would start to bruise badly. My internist said she has seen this occasionally with fish oil and called it "capillary fragility." I bruise easily anyway, but it would really get bad with fish oil. So there must be some quality in fish oil that influences this.

    Then about 6 months ago I started a strong supplement change to help with my low bone density--already taking magnesium and calcium but added:
    Boron, K2, silica,pomegrantate juice, and BIG increase in vitamin D.
    I also increased omegas to 3,000 a day which I was not able to tolerate before.

    It has been over 4 months since I have had ANY bruise---which is just unheard of for me. I usually have 3-4 different bruises on arms/legs. So something in these supplements  strengthened my capillaries I guess, and I can now take high fish oil doses!
    Anyone else had a bruising problem with fish oil?

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/27/2009 11:04:59 AM |

    Hi, Catherine--

    Fascinating observation!

    I'll bet it has something to do with the vitamin D, more than anything else. Vitamin D seems to strengthen structural tissues in bones, muscle, heart valves, and perhaps capillaries and other small blood vessels.

  • trix

    10/27/2009 11:59:37 AM |

    Several years ago I bruised easily for a while and attributed it to taking garlic supplements daily.  I started taking Vit C and the bruising stopped.  I don't think it had to do with fish oil (in my case); I don't think I was taking fish oil at the time.

  • Daniel

    10/27/2009 9:37:33 PM |

    I too achieve rapid blood thinning when taking 2400mg of EPA/DHA per day. That's only 4 pharmaceutical grade capsules. Even after my vitamin d levels were normalized I still got bruising.

    I now take Vitamin K2 (MK-7 natto extract) twice a week and it's allowed me to bump my EPA/DHA up to 3600mg with no ill effects or bruising.

    It was either supplement or eat a lot of aged cheese, they both seemed to do the trick in my particular case.

  • Healthy Oil Guy

    10/27/2009 9:53:51 PM |

    Thank you for sharing this study with us.  It helps clarify whether there is a risk for blood thinning from taking fish oils.  This information may help individuals who are taking blood thinning medications and considering adding fish oils to their daily diet.

  • Dave

    10/28/2009 2:22:01 AM |

    Catherine,

    Without a doubt, your cessation of bruising was due to vitamin k2. I routinely take nattokinase, large doses of fish oil, curcumin, and other blood thinning agents, and if I don't take vitamin K2, I will begin bruising. (I also take high doses of Vitamin D). When I take K2, I have absolutely no bruising.

    Vitamin K2 has many clinical trials showing that it helps endothelium  integrity and elasticity.

    Also, grapeseed extract and pine bark extract (specifically oligomeric proanthcyanins) has the same beneficial effect.

  • Catherine

    10/28/2009 4:41:41 PM |

    Daniel,

    That's really interesting! There is a lot of research on K2's effect on strengthening weak bones. Bone fractures go down considerably when high doses of K2 are used (Japan is using K2 as osteoporosis treatment) BUT studies show it needs to be in conjunction with adequate calcium and Vitamin D---they work synergistically for bone strength.  So it makes sense that K2 and D could do the same with strengthening fragile capillaries. I am also taking the M7 natto form.

  • Catherine

    10/29/2009 12:01:36 AM |

    Dave,

    Thanks for sharing your experience with this, you've really confirmed it now for me.  I can't believe I have suffered with this for most of my life with no answers (tried high dose Vit C, grape seed, etc) and now within months on K2, there's no bruising and I can tolerate fish oil. Hope my bones are responding this well!
    This blog is so helpful....

  • Mina

    10/29/2009 12:21:31 PM |

    Thanks for posting this. The question recently came up in our office. I like your assertion that omega-3s restore the blood to normal and remove abnormal clotting. And to comment on a post above, our dog has a beautifully shiny coat and takes 2 pure EPA capsules each day!

  • Term papers

    1/26/2010 3:40:08 PM |

    I have enjoyed reading That During nearly 3 years of observation, there was no excess of bleeding events in the group taking fish oil. (In fact, the group not taking fish oil had more bleeding events, though the difference fell short of achieving statistical significance.

  • Viagra Online

    8/23/2010 6:41:39 PM |

    I've been drinking fish oil for many year and I don't have any chance in my body people use to said me that but I think it is just a rumor.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 10:19:55 PM |

    I'm also especially gratified that a woman now holds our record. I'm uncertain why, but the ladies have been shy and the men remain the dominant and vocal participants in our program. Speak up, ladies!

  • moseley2010

    12/7/2010 2:37:16 AM |

    I haven't heard of this problem
    fish oil supplements. But now we know what to tell them when this sort of concern comes up. Fish oil or Omega-3 is really beneficial to health. It's just important that it comes from clean waters.

  • Jack

    3/12/2013 7:03:38 PM |

    What is an appropriate dose of fish oil for someone taking coumadin?

  • dorange

    6/15/2014 3:53:03 PM |

    Dr. Davis, when  person is taking Tamoxifen...
    (1) is it safe to take vitamin k2 or K1?
    (2) will fish oil have a role in preventing blood clots?

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How did Cureality get its start?

How did Cureality get its start?




In the Cureality program, we embrace information and strategies that empower you in health without drugs, without hospitals, without procedures. We convert your doctor from director of healthcare to your assistant in health. He or she is there when you need help, but you largely direct your own health future.

How did we gain the know-how, information, tools, even chutzpah to take on such an ambitious project?


It started around 10 years ago with the awkwardly named Track Your Plaque program. In fact, some of the current followers of the Cureality program are former Track Your Plaque members, having learned of the wonderful list of strategies that can be adopted to gain better control over, even reverse, coronary atherosclerotic plaque and risk for heart attack. They also learned that something special happens when you engage with other people with similar interests, all sharing ideas, insights, and resources to get the self-directed health job done. Over time, what started out as simply a source of better information for coronary health evolved into a self-directed coronary disease management program. We never set out to create something as wildly ambitious as a do-it-yourself-at-home coronary disease risk management program, but that is how it inadvertently turned out.

How we went from Information Provider to Health Empowerment Program

So we never intended to take on something so seemingly impossible as managing coronary risk on your own. But, because we armed people with such empowering, profound insights into better ways to manage their heart disease risk beyond “don’t smoke, cut saturated fat, be active, and take a statin drug”—the typical advice offered by doctors—they returned after an interaction with their doctors disappointed: doctors often declared such strategies unnecessary, or the doctor didn’t understand them—even when there were clear-cut clinical data already available to support their use. In other words, the patients—everyday people, not experts—knew more than their doctors. 

This flip-flop in the balance of knowledge made for some very interesting stories, like “Harold” (not his real name) who, having survived a heart attack and received a stent, was told by his doctor to cut his fat intake, eat more whole grains, exercise, take aspirin and a beta blocker drug, and reduce his cholesterol values with a statin drug. Upon learning all the additional information from the Track Your Plaque program, Harold returned to his doctor and asked “I’m not so ready to just go along with this idea of ‘reducing cholesterol’ to address heart disease risk. Because my goal is to gain as much control over coronary disease as possible, maybe even reverse it, I’d like to address some additional issues that I believe may be important. I’d like to have my advanced lipoproteins drawn to measure the proportion of small LDL particles I have, whether I have lipoprotein(a), an omega-3 fatty acid index and 25-hydroxy vitamin D level, and a thyroid assessment. Oh, and I believe I should also have an assessment of my inflammation status, perhaps a c-reactive protein and phospholipase A2, and my blood sugar status measured with a fasting glucose, insulin, and hemoglobin A1c.” Harold’s doctor was dumbfounded and speechless. Rather than reveal his ignorance, his doctor advised Harold that none of that was necessary, sending him on his way and telling him that he was fine.

But this left Harold with a sour taste in his mouth, having engaged in many online discussions with people who had followed conventional advice that resulted in more heart attack, more heart procedures—the conventional answers simply did not work. He also discussed his situation with people who had successfully obtained the additional information he sought, added it to their program and enjoyed dramatically improved health, including freedom from more heart attacks, heart symptoms, and heart procedures, as well as improved overall health. So Harold found an easy way to obtain the testing on his own. Within a couple of weeks, he returned to his online community and shared all his information. Within moments, he was provided useful discussion to help him understand the values, all leading to changes in nutrition, nutritional supplement choices, how and where to get the simple tools necessary, such as iodine and vitamin D supplements. He even entered his data, choosing which values he was willing to share with others, which remained private, allowing him to compare his own follow-up values several months later. Engaged in this process, self-directed but collaborative, he witnessed marked transformations in his health. Not only did he never again—over several years—ever re-develop heart symptoms nor require any more trips back to the cath lab, he lost weight, reversed a pre-diabetic sugar profile, improved his cholesterol values without drugs, got rid of the acid reflux symptoms he endured for many years, dropped his blood pressure to normal, enjoyed better mood, energy, and sleep. Slender, healthier, all accomplished without his doctor. 

Harold returned to his doctor for a routine follow-up. Slender, energetic, without complaints, on no drugs except the aspirin for his stent, the basic laboratory assessment his doctor ordered in front of him, his doctor admitted,” Well, I don’t know how you’re doing it, but these values look like a 20-year old substituted his blood for yours. They’re unbelievable. What drugs are you taking to do this?” “No drugs,” Harold replied, “I’m following a program to reverse heart disease, but it means doing some things that are different from conventional solutions.” His doctor closed their meeting with the signature response of doctors nationwide: “Well, I don’t understand what you are doing, but just keep doing it.”

Yes, Harold knew more about how to control heart disease than his doctor, more than his cardiologist. The cardiologist knew how to insert a stent or defibrillator. But deliver information that empowered Harold in all aspects of health from head to toe, while also dramatically reducing, perhaps eliminating, his coronary disease risk? As you now know, that is not what conventional healthcare does, nor is it interested in doing so, as it would relinquish control and threaten to cut off this hugely profitable revenue stream that drives “healthcare.”

Having managed to inadvertently create a self-directed coronary risk management program with such spectacular results and in probably one of the most difficult areas of all—heart disease—it became clear that a similar approach could be even more easily applied to many other areas of health, such as weight loss, bone health, cholesterol and blood pressure issues, diabetes and pre-diabetes, hormonal health, autoimmune conditions, and others. You can do it when empowered by safe, effective information, and supported by a community of sharing and collaboration. We don’t fire our doctors; they are there when we need them when, for instance, we get injured or catch pneumonia, or as an occasional resource. But doctors should no longer be able to get away with neglect, misinformation, or blindly directing you to the next revenue-generating procedure because you are empowered by the information and support you receive in Cureality.

As we get more effective in delivering this information and new tools to you, just imagine what we can accomplish in this new age of information and self-empowerment. The future for us is bright with ambitions for better interactive tools with Cureality expert staff, better ways to crowd source health answers, provide more engaging community conversation, all while the health insights that help accomplish our self-directed health goals get better and better. Each person that joins Cureality helps make this service more effective because your wisdom, insights, and experience are added to the collective knowledge. We are more powerful together than we are as individuals.

If you are already a Cureality Member, please add your comments and questions to the growing conversation. If you are not a Member, consider joining our discussions, as each new voice gets us closer and closer to better answers to take back control over health.
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