10,000 units of vitamin D

Joanne started with a 25-hydroxy vitamin D level of 23 ng/ml--severe deficiency.

What made this starting value even worse was that it was drawn in August after a moderately sunny summer spent outdoors. (Last summer, not this summer.) It therefore represented her high for the year, since vitamin D levels trend lower as fall and winter set in. This suggests that her winter level was likely in the teens or even single digits. In addition, note that, at age 43, Joanne has lost much of her ability to activate vitamin D in the skin.

So I advised that she take 6000 units of an oil-based gelcap per day, a dose likely to generate the desired blood level, which I believe is 60-70 ng/ml.

Four months later, her 25-hydroxy vitamin D level: 39.9 ng/ml--still too low. So I advised her to increase her dose to 10,000 units per day. Several months later, her 25-hydroxy vitamin D level: 63.8 ng/ml--perfect.

However, on hearing that she was taking 10,000 units vitamin D per day, Joanne's primary care physician was shocked: "What? Stop that immediately! You're taking a toxic dose!" So Joanne called me to find out if this was true.

No, of course it's not true. It's not the dose that's toxic, but the blood level it generates. Although it varies, vitamin D toxicity, as evidenced by increased blood calcium levels, generally does not even begin to get underway until at least 120-130 ng/ml, perhaps higher. Rarely, a dose of 2000 units per day will generate a level this high. In others, it may require 24,000 or more units per day to generate such a high level.

So it's not the dose that's toxic, but the blood level of 25-hydroxy vitamin D it generates.

Provided you and/or your doctor are monitoring 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood levels, the dose is immaterial. It's the blood level you're interested in.

Comments (47) -

  • Pater_Fortunatos

    8/2/2010 8:06:19 PM |

    There is a romanian guy that promotes healthy life style with low carb and other paleo ideas.

    http://www.cristianmargarit.ro/

    On his forum, a schizo girl was asking about suplemments, but she was really amazed by Dr Davis prescriptions, 6000 UI/zi, she said that NowFoods recomand a 5000 UI gelcap /3 days.

    But Cristian (the body builder from the link) replies:

    "It happened that I had once 100.000 UI on a day of vitamin D. Yes, one hundred thousands! When you try to adjust the level for certain deficencies, the therapeuthical doses can be a lot higher than the usual doses, that look like jokes for healthy people."

    Readind the article that Dr Davis just published, I assume he has a point, but 100.000 on a day!?!

  • Anonymous

    8/2/2010 8:16:33 PM |

    hi Dr. Davis

    could you sum up the benefits of vitamin d for non heart patients?

    im in early twenties and have my vit d at 18!

    i feel normal. what can i expect with higher blood levels of this vitamin?

    i have some source naturals 2000 ui powdered caps is that effective?

    Thanks

  • enliteneer

    8/2/2010 8:49:12 PM |

    There is evidence to suggest a correlation between high circulating Vitamin D blood levels (>40ng/ml) and rare cancers (pancreatic, etc):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892544/?tool=pmcentrez&report=abstract

    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/66/20/9802

    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/4/1439

    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/kwq114

  • Anonymous

    8/2/2010 9:05:48 PM |

    My Vit. D level 2 years ago was 42, I started supplementing with 6K per day.  I retested this spring and had decreased to 41.  

    I was amazed and confused.

    After some communications with the Vit. D council,  I found out that the Tretinoin Cream I was using for my splotching skin was interfering with absorption of Vit. D.

    I have since stopped the cream, increased to 12K per day and get 1 hour of sun without any sunscreen.
    I am sure my Dermatologist won't be happy with my tan.

  • aurelia

    8/2/2010 11:22:05 PM |

    Did you call her PCP?

  • steve

    8/3/2010 12:54:59 AM |

    2 questions about vitamin d. Should I take it in the summer months. I work outside all day long? Whats the differences between vitamin d with cod liver oil  and without ? thanks...

  • Tommy

    8/3/2010 1:11:35 AM |

    What about taking Vitamin A to counter balance Vitamin D?

  • Patricia Dillavou

    8/3/2010 3:45:24 AM |

    It has been determined that toxicity concerns for VD3 occur somewhere around 200 ng/ml.  (www.grassrootshealth.net)

    Vitamin D experts recommend between 70-90 ng/ml depending on the doctor.  Some even higher. For instance - Dr. Cannell of The Vitamin D Council (www.vitamindcouncil.org) recommends at least 90-100 ng/ml for cancer survivors.

    Dr. Cannell is also on the board of GRH - both non-profit advocacy groups promoting the health benefits of VD3.

    Grassroots Health is running a five year study on VD3 that is well worth joining.  Anyone can join - find the details at their website.

  • Patricia Dillavou

    8/3/2010 3:54:18 AM |

    Dr. Cannell warns that vitamin A "antagonizes the action" of VD3.  He says you don't need to supplement with vitamin A outside of a good diet.

    Not quite halfway down in this newsletter post:
    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-june.shtml

  • Sara

    8/3/2010 4:07:00 AM |

    I read a study recently where they measured the actual amount of vit. D present in various name brands. They varied in strength from 1% to 82%.
    That's very weak on the mfgs. part and would only encourage the use of prescription D.
    Here is the link:
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/CMSC-ACTRIMS/20522

  • Pat D.

    8/3/2010 4:08:36 AM |

    Enliteener - a quote from the study at the second link you provide:
    ( 7). Ecologic data are not supportive of a strong positive association between vitamin D and pancreatic cancer as sunnier regions do not have higher rates of pancreatic cancer. In fact, the opposite is true, in the United States, relatively high pancreatic cancer rates are observed in states where UV exposure is low.

  • vlado2020

    8/3/2010 11:46:08 AM |

    as much I respect dr. Davis he is like all the docs obsessed with numbers and stability and "safety". Unfortunatelly it ignores the basic properties of vitamin D which is an essential , perhaps most important hormone in all the living beings. First of all , vitamin D gets activated in kidneys first and if kidneys get saturated in tissues where all the healing properties of vitamin D occur. Second of all , there is a reason why oral supplementation is possible throughout life as opposed to simple skin synthesis. Then our bodies can absorb much more orally at once than through the skin which leads me to believe that we are designed to take much larger doses at once to correct deficiencies. Lastly vitamin D is fat soluble so it stays with you for 2 months at least. Having said all that , it doesn't make any sense to supplement every day with lesser doses than you can synthesize in the skin or to follow some magical numbers.
    I have dealt with a very stubborn case of psoriasis for 3 years but in a few days I am taking a big vitamin D experiment, 30 days / 500 000 IU daily, 15 million in a month. Indeed if you search google archives you can find newspaper clippings from 30's and 40's when doctors were more liberal and less obsessed with money of such doses reversing psoriasis and arthritis and other auto immune conditions.

  • MissPkm

    8/3/2010 2:16:13 PM |

    Dr Davis, A great post yet again. I guess that is the one single line I have forgotten to tell people "it is not the dose, it is the blood level that matter"!! GREAT! Thank you.

    Sara,
    There is a big concern for supplements on the market as they are not being checked by any agencies, and just like Dr Davis previous have been reporting on - some Vitamin D3 over the counter are not what they say they are. However in this study that you refer to (the part that I was able to read) they do not list the name brands or the type of Vitamin D (pill, gel cap, liquid) as that also plays a big role. I think it is a big separation from the message in the report of saying to only take Vitamin D2 (which is the prescription vitamin D) when we know D2 is not natural to us humans nor is it better. I suggest you read a little bit more about D2 and D3 before deciding what is best for you.

  • Ned Kock

    8/3/2010 5:00:11 PM |

    Hello Dr. Davis.

    Let me point out a few things based on research on vitamin D. Not all agree with what you said in your post, but then again you may well be right and the research wrong:

    - Indeed, toxicity signs do not seem to occur until one reaches the 50,000 IU/d level of intake.

    - Among the elderly (i.e., those aged 65 or above) pre-sunburn full-body exposure to sunlight is equivalent to an oral vitamin D intake of 218 µg (8,700 IU). That is close to 90 percent of what a 20-year-old would produce.

    - People on average will plateau at 130 nmol/L, after months of 10,000 IU/d supplementation. That is 52 ng/mL. Assuming a normal distribution with a standard deviation of about 20 percent the peak mean (a rough guesstimate), one would expect 68 percent of the population to be in the 42 to 63 ng/mL range. That might be the range most of us should expect to be in at an intake of 10,000 IU/d.

    As we know, some people are outliers. A person who is two standard deviations above the mean would be at around 73 ng/mL. Three SDs above the mean would be 83 ng/mL. These are outliers; non-average people.

    There are other factors that may have affected the results for this patient. Being overweight tends to reduce D levels. Sunscreen also does that. Excess cortisol may also be affecting D levels.

    Below are two links with more details:

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/02/vitamin-d-levels-sunlight-age-and.html

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/01/vitamin-d-deficiency-seasonal.html

  • stop smoking help

    8/3/2010 6:56:15 PM |

    I wonder what levels are found in smokers? I know smokers aren't supposed to supplement with beta-carotene as it statistically increases their risk of developing lung cancer.

    What about vitamin D? Is there any data on this as it relates to people who smoke cigarettes or other tobacco products?

  • Anonymous

    8/3/2010 9:57:45 PM |

    This is so off topic, but for some reason I cannot find the Pharmax website for fish oil. Can anyone help?  Thank you
    From an old person who is not tech savvy.

  • Matthew

    8/3/2010 11:01:03 PM |

    There is a graph of vitamin D blood levels on the video by Dr. Michael Holl+
    ick that shows the knee of the runaway blood levels is around 10,000 IU per day, and he recommends no more than that on an ongoing basis.

    For me, 5000 iu per day stopped my gums from bleeding when I brushed, and ended decades of dysthymia.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq1t9WqOD-0
    http://www.uvadvantage.org/

  • Anonymous

    8/5/2010 6:21:19 PM |

    Dr Davis,
    You are absolutely right that "it is not the dose, it is the blood level that matters”. But, what about the blood level of calcium? One of the causes of the toxicity of Vit D is that it may cause high calcium levels in blood. So, should we not measure also the calcium level, and if it is high then should we not stop taking D, even though  its blood level may be normal or low? Thank you.

  • Ganesh

    8/6/2010 8:17:05 AM |

    How does a dosage of Vitamin D3 supplementation totaling 2,260,000 IU over 56 days averaging daily to about 40,000 IU sound?? Resulting in a blood level of 239.0 ng/mL?? This is no fiction...but my personal experience...and I have never felt more better since then! I got rid of my pre-diabetes, Metabolic Syndrome and other fancy new-age potential diseases...  Read all about it at gkwellness.wordpress.com.

  • TedHutchinson

    8/6/2010 9:16:15 AM |

    Perhaps it would be well for others to read what Dr Cannell has to say about massive doses of vitamin D.

    Warning: If you intend to take massive doses of vitamin D based on this newsletter, which I highly recommend you do not, read the entire newsletter. In addition, accurate determination of side effects of massive doses of vitamin D was not available in the early 1930s, nor was accurate determination of the true amount in each pill possible.

    You'll find the Vitamin D Council newsletter at this link.
    Gary Null and Vitamin D Toxicity

  • Josh

    8/6/2010 12:44:21 PM |

    I've been taking 10,000 IUs a day for the last 3 months.  Got my results back today:  I went from 51ng/dL to 65 ng/dL.  I eat strictly paleo and I also get regular sun.  I expected a greater increase.  I also had a CMP run to check for hypercalcemia - all good.

  • Anonymous

    8/7/2010 1:03:50 AM |

    I recently went to a doctor for pre-diabetes and high cholestrol and found my vitamin d level is 17 and I am breastfeeding. Does anyone know what a safe amount would be for me to take. I am taking 5000 d3, liquid dropper full. I am very tan, and out in the sun...why am I not absorbing or making the hormone? My crp level was 24, they said that wasn;t normal. Could this be a effect of this wheat allergy I am reading about? What do you think Dr. Davis?

  • Jimmy Moore

    8/7/2010 11:12:16 AM |

    I too got the same reaction from my doctor when I told him I take 10,000IU daily.  But I HAVE to in order to reach that optimal level you're talking about.  Two years ago my D3 was 42, so I went on a 6-month Vitamin D3 gelcaps regimen to get it up to 68.  Wanting to find the balance of how much to take, I backed off to 6,000IU for about 8 months and my D3 level dropped back down to 50.  So I've been on 10,000IU daily again for the past 8 months and look forward to seeing my levels return into the 60s where they need to be.  THANK YOU Dr. Davis for leading the way on this important issue.  My wife Christine had a D3 level of 9 before starting 10,000IU herself--today her D3 is 54 and she's completely off of her Paxil medicine.  WOO HOO!

  • Anonymous

    8/8/2010 6:57:56 PM |

    I can't find the link but I recall reading something, possibly by Dr. Cannell urging people who are taking higher quantities of vitamin D to ALSO take extra Magnesium and Potassium to prevent kidney stones(which may occur with higher dosing of Vitamin D).

    If this is the case, how much mag and potassium should one take to prevent stones?

  • Neonomide

    8/11/2010 9:58:48 PM |

    Vitamin D3 decreased relapse rate by 50% in Crohn's disease patients in a 12 month randomized controlled trial:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20491740


    I knew this for almost two years already and got to ditch my meds, just by taking enough Vitamin D3. If everything in healthcare was this simple we would not have major healthcare problems, yes ?

  • mike V

    8/21/2010 4:56:17 PM |

    Dr D.
    It has probably by now come to your attention that there is some evidence for a U shaped mortality curve with vitamin D in elderly men, esp cancer.

    Here is one report:
    *Plasma vitamin D and mortality in older men: a community-based prospective cohort study.*

    Michaëlsson K, Baron JA, Snellman G, Gedeborg R, Byberg L, Sundström J, Berglund L, Arnlöv J, Hellman P, Blomhoff R, Wolk A, Garmo H, Holmberg L, Melhus H.

    Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Aug 18. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 20720256 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]Related citations

    My suspicion is that it may  be related to insufficent vitamin K2, which of course may relate to typical elderly diets.

    Please comment, and/or refer us to earlier comments you may have made.
    Thank you
    Mike V

  • TedHutchinson

    8/21/2010 10:39:36 PM |

    How to Optimize Vitamin D Supplementation to Prevent Cancer, Based on Cellular Adaptation and Hydroxylase Enzymology
    At the most northerly latitudes such as Sweden, where the study Mike V linked to was done and Finland where P Tuohimaa has reported similar findings, we have to appreciate the people with the highest vitamin D status probably have the largest changes in status over the year.
    Vieth provides a hypothesis that explains how people with extreme changes in status experience longer periods of imbalance between the forces controlling cell proliferation.
    Vieth suggests keeping 25(OH)D BOTH HIGH and STABLE is the safest option that way there is little or no CHANGE in status through the year, so no periods where dis-regulation of the counterbalancing forces could occur.

  • Anonymous

    8/22/2010 11:50:44 PM |

    Ted,

    If I'm reading what you posted correctly, Vieth is indicating that one should maintain higher serum d-levels year round as opposed to allowing them fluctuate?

  • Anonymous

    8/22/2010 11:53:29 PM |

    I'm sure this has been asked before but what's a suitable dosing strategy for someone who just flat out refuses to get their 25(OH)D3 levels checked? My brother is 28, I've convinced him to start supplementing with vitamin D but her refuses to go to the doctor to get blood drawn and when I suggested he order a kit online and do it himself he looked at me like I was crazy.

    I have him on average taking 5000 to 6000 units per day.

    Mike

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 9:39:52 AM |

    @ Vieth is indicating that one should maintain higher serum d-levels year round as opposed to allowing them fluctuate?

    Vieth says so long as serum 25(OH)D concentrations are in a phase of decline, there can be no full achievement of tissue 1,25(OH)2D to match its ideal set-point concentration.

    There have been a couple of papers recently showing ANNUAL vitamin D supplementation (raising status with high intakes before winter) only makes matters worse because it creates a longer period of declining 25(OH)D.

    Note also that because Ergocalciferol has a shorter half life than D3 it amplifies this problem so should be avoided.

    Supplementing DAILY or WEEKLY reduces the potential for fluctuation so are ideal but fortnightly or even monthly supplementation with D3 probably avoid the periods of declining status, if the person concerned really isn't capable of more regular dosing.

    The amount of vitamin D made in the skin varies with 25(OH)D status This reduces the summer rise in status but if you get lots of sun in summer (unlike the UK)it may be sensible to REDUCE (but not stop) vitamin D supplements while you are also getting near full body sun exposure, and then resume the full amount of supplementation as soon as sun exposure reduces.

    I think people who live furthest from the equator have to be particularly careful when taking winter sun holidays in the tropics.
    As Vitamin D is itself photoprotective it's worth supplementing with vitamin D before a winter sun break rather than relying on the holiday sun to raise status. Then reduce intake while sunning in the tropics but resume supplementation as soon as you return. Careful supplementation increases serum 25(OH)D concentrations and reduces the effect of the seasonal amplitude in 25(OH)D on the tissue fluctuations in 1,25(OH)2D.

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 10:11:13 AM |

    @ Mike
    Grassrootshealth graph of typical responses to various vitamin D intakes

    Startling Findings About Vitamin D Levels in Life Extension® Members

    The graphs at the above links show 5000~6000iu/daily gets most people above insufficiency status and doesn't raise status above a safe amount.

    The range of response to regular D3 supplements is about 100ng/ml so without a few 25(OH)D tests it's impossible for anyone to say if you're at the lowest or highest end of that response scale.

    If you're diabetic or celiac then it's likely you're a poor responder but there are people reading this with inflammatory conditions who've taken very modest vitamin D3 amounts but had extremely high 25(OH)D test results.

    It's so simple to put a couple of drops of blood on a test strip and post if off that I'm surprised everyone doesn't get it done.

    Once you've had a few tests done you can more or less predict what the result will be, but there have been instances where people have changed brands of D3, been tested and discovered problems.

    Only if you've had a test can you be certain the brand/batch/amount/dosing regime of D3 you are taking is working for you.

  • mike V

    8/23/2010 1:30:20 PM |

    Thanks for the helpful posts, Ted.
    Is it your interpretation that variability still remains important, even if one's 25(OH)D does not fall below say 30 or 40 ng/mL over the year, or do you think the the lower excursion limit would have to drop to a deficient level at least for a part of the year? It would seem to me that storage in body fat would be a consideration in minimizing variability.
    Have you come across any studies on U curve effects  performed at lower latitudes, or perhaps on those supplementing?

    I am a vintage Brit, living in the "Deep South", and whose last readings were between 60 and 70 ng/ml so I have no personal concerns.
    Last winter I was using 8000iu, but I drop back to 4-6000 in the Summer months, when we typically have highs between 90 and 100F.
    FWIW I have been gradually escalating my dose over a period of more than 10 years. Now in 75th year.
    regards
    Mike V

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 2:01:16 PM |

    @ It would seem to me that storage in body fat would be a consideration in minimizing variability. I agree.
    Bear in mind we don't see significant stored D3 reserves below 40ng/ml but at 50~60ng/ml reserves are measurable.
    I stay around 60ng/ml with 5000iu/d + regular full body UVB/SUN exposure.
    I'm not aware of any data on Ushaped curve at lower latitudes or with people maintaining a steady state 25(OH)D by avoiding declines in 25(OH)D.
    I'd be more than willing to participate in any trial, providing I'm assured of remaining on the high end arm of the study.

  • mike V

    8/23/2010 2:56:12 PM |

    Thank you.
    One more question.
    It appears that UVB/sun exposure is useful way to 'top off' supplementation in a natural or controlled way.
    Seems we evolved our African metabolisms getting a heavy daily full body dose.

    Are you aware of any data suggesting that UVB sourced D has any other advantages over presumingly well managed supplementation?
    Thanks again
    I appreciate your awareness of, and facility at quoting relevant studies.
    Mike V

  • Anonymous

    8/23/2010 6:42:53 PM |

    Ted, you bring up an interesting point regarding different dosing methods. Here's a study comparing daily vs. weekly vs. monthly dosing of D3.

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/93/9/3430

  • Anonymous

    8/23/2010 7:28:43 PM |

    Seasonal fluctuations may be of importance but the overall 25(OH)D levels still seem most important.

    The Framingham Study data and other papers have already pointed out that not only total mortality, but also bone health seems best in about 35-40 ng/ml, not more. Similarly, not-so-rare cancers like in prostate and pancreas (kills practically everyone) may well increase in susceptiple populations ie in smokers.

    There are also racial differences that may be of huge importance. Not only CHD risk and 25(OH)D does follow the skin color pretty closely, but native Africans also have rather low 25(OH)D levels which perhaps explains the association. Even doctor Cannell wrote previously about this:

    "Dr. Freedman and his Wake forest colleagues measured vitamin D levels and plaque (the build-up in your arteries) on 340 diabetic, obese (BMI 35) African Americans and found higher vitamin D levels were associated with more plaque build up in the arteries."

    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/vitamin-d-race-and-cardiovascular-disease.shtml


    Infants in Nigeria have much higher 25(OH)D levels, yet as Nigerian people get older, their 25(OH)D levels drop a lot.

    I'd imagine that tremendous UVB exposure for decades makes it progressively harder to make Vitamin D and that seems to be the simplest explanation. Elderly white-skinned people may on the other hand make a lot more Vit D as a recent study shows. I'd die to know if the same works out for native Africans as well - which I very much doubt.

    Vitamin D has tens of metabolites that form only in the skin. This may be the single biggest challenge to the claim that Vitamin D supplementation fixes "everything".

    A quick googling on a wide array of problems people have had when supplementing more than 2000 IU a day is dazzling. So D3 may be a wonder vitamin, but it's benefits are dose dependent and probably highly dependent of other nutriotional factors as well, since D3 affects the absorption of minerals, expression of hundreds of genes and so on.

    Food rep

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 10:47:56 PM |

    @ you bring up an interesting point regarding different dosing methods ...Comparison of Daily, Weekly, and Monthly Vitamin D3
    Perhaps that is because I regard the natural level at which humans produce vitamin D replete breast milk, achieve 25(OH)D equilibrium and maintain a stored reserve of vitamin d3 as ideal, not the level used in that study that barely ever provides sufficient even for basic daily needs.

    Health professionals may aim for a level that maximises health service interventions. I want a level that minimises my need to use those services.

    Bankers make more money from people who frequently use overdraft and loan services. I prefer to save up, keep a reserve of cash in an instant access savings account, only every pay cash and get discounted prices.

    You may be happy to manage your Vitamin D account without ever having any spare reserves available for emergency use but IMO that is neither prudent or safe.

    Why on earth would your skin produce 10~20000iu in a relatively short time if only 1500iu were required?

  • mike V

    8/24/2010 1:39:15 AM |

    Food Rep:
    Suggest you take as a baseline levels that are thought to be closer to the equatorial 25(OH)D blood levels we evolved with. Not minimal levels to mitigate some particular symptom or disease.
      Yes, achieving this goal largely by supplements, can be complicated depending on skin color, genetics, latitude, age, body fat, but in my judgment it is well worth achieving, and it will become easier as time goes on.

    IMHO, Ted and Dr Davis have it about right.

    Do you visit www.grassrootshealth.net?
    If not I recommend you do so... soon. IMHO there is not a more authoritative resource on this topic.
    Mike V
    By the way, vitamin D does not *cause* calcification. It does enable homeostasis.

  • Anonymous

    8/24/2010 2:51:38 PM |

    Ted,

    I only posted that study above to show that different dosing schedules (daily, weekly, monthly) all seem like viable approaches in maintaining 25(OH)D3 levels granted you are consistent with it. I wasn't trying to suggest that the actual doses they were administering were adequate.

  • Anonymous

    8/25/2010 4:45:49 PM |

    I just trying to have ripped abs.  I am not taking any supplements or anything like that but the literature here suggests that taking some substances could actually have an adverse affect on your body even though they are supposed to be healthy.

  • mike V

    8/26/2010 6:29:59 PM |

    Ted, Dr D.
    I suggest that vitamin 2K should be considered in association with Vitamin D where the cancer mortality curve is in question.
    **
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_03.htm
    **
    note: I believe I am right insaying that the first 15 references cited in this article relate to cancer.
    Mike

    Mike V

  • max

    9/25/2010 7:50:35 AM |

    good article.

  • Anonymous

    10/30/2010 4:40:15 PM |

    I recently did the Vitamin D Council blood spot test. It cost $70.00 including shipping I think. It was painful and two weeks later, my finger still hurts. If I ever do another blood spot test, I'll try to draw blood from my forearm, although the test requires at least 2 large blood drops. I have no results yet. I am 114 lbs and take 2400 IU a day (softgels). I don't really plan to test ever again, especially on my finger, so I'll play it safe and keep my level around 40. Obviously, I'll have to adjust accordingly, once I get the results. I don't have the luxury of a good doctor. Doctors around here are virtually useless.

  • Anonymous

    1/21/2011 5:19:23 PM |

    Hi there,
    Been researching Vit D here on the heartscan blog and others such as Vit D counsil, Dr. Ben Kims' site,getting good info to stay away from D2 of course.
      But this site, "The Peoples Chemist"- Shane Ellison and blog poster "Chuck" say we all should stay away from any man-made D3(sheep wool) included. They back it up stating specific chemical biological changes in the body.  They say it just isn't the same and can do more harm in the long run. The site states basically that we should be using only food for Vit D3. meats, eggs, cod-liver oil(w/o the vitamins depleted or added)ect...
       This is real important for all of us if this is true.  Please Heart scan Bloggers/Dr. Davis read the info @ Vit D on Shanes site... Thanks

  • Anonymous

    1/21/2011 5:19:47 PM |

    Hi there,
    Been researching Vit D here on the heartscan blog and others such as Vit D counsil, Dr. Ben Kims' site,getting good info to stay away from D2 of course.
      But this site, "The Peoples Chemist"- Shane Ellison and blog poster "Chuck" say we all should stay away from any man-made D3(sheep wool) included. They back it up stating specific chemical biological changes in the body.  They say it just isn't the same and can do more harm in the long run. The site states basically that we should be using only food for Vit D3. meats, eggs, cod-liver oil(w/o the vitamins depleted or added)ect...
       This is real important for all of us if this is true.  Please Heart scan Bloggers/Dr. Davis read the info @ Vit D on Shanes site... Thanks

  • Lynn D

    9/20/2012 10:32:05 PM |

    If our vite D levels show up low 20every year ,even when take 4000/day, then
    are we not absorbing or are we using it up. It sounds like some websearch showed up maybe
    additional testing such as also 1,25 OH in additon to the 25OH
    Thanks for any info

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View from the precipice

View from the precipice


Many people, upon first learning of their CT heart scan score, feel like they're on the edge of a sharp drop. It can feel like you're facing a vast, unknown abyss. At the bottom, all those dreaded things that can happen to you: heart attack, heart failure, hospitals, even dying.

I've encountered this "deer in the headlights" look many times. It truly can be frightening to hear that your heart scan score is 300, or 500, or whatever.

What I find truly frightening, however, is when your score prompts the usual array of misinformation commonly dispensed by physicians: "That's so bad you need a heart catheterization", "Nobody knows why people get calcified plaque", or "Reversal is impossible". All absolute bunk.

Let your fear motivate you to do something about your risk for heart disease. Aim for reversal of your coronary plaque and seek out the tools to achieve this. It is possible and, in fact, we do it all the time. I can't claim 100% success, but the majority of people who engage in an effort like the Track Your Plaque program to reverse coronary plaque succeed. Even a substantial slowing of plaque growth from the expected 30% per year is better than submitting to the conventional approach.

At the very least, get both LDL and HDL cholesterol around 60 mg/dl. This alone is a major plus in reducing the risks associated with your heart scan score. It doesn't guaranteee reversal, but it sure tips the odds in your favor.
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Myocardial infraction

Myocardial infraction

I've seen a few heart attacks this past year . . . but none in the people who follow this program.

I saw a heart attack in a priest, a wonderful man who was unable to say "no" to his parishioners who insisted on bringing pies, cakes, and cookies every day.

I saw an impending heart attack in a 74-year old man, a football coach who thought the whole wheat-free, low-carb thing was some wacko trend. Four stents later, he's changed his mind.

A 69-year old woman had to be hospitalized for heart failure due to partial closure of an artery. She repeatedly told me that she simply could not follow the diet because it was "too restrictive."

There were a few others. Interestingly, all felt they were eating healthy, minimizing junk foods and avoiding fatty foods. None were wheat-free nor restricted carbohydrates.

In other words, in the people who follow the basic advice of the Track Your Plaque program to do such simple things as eliminate wheat, don't indulge in junk carbohydrates, normalize vitamin D status, supplement omega-3 fatty acids, supplement iodine and correct any thyroid dysfunction . . . well, they have no heart attacks.

Comments (45) -

  • Gretchen

    1/15/2012 3:01:22 PM |

    What's your opinion of the study showing that vitamin D levels above the low end of the normal range were associated with elevated CRP levels?

  • Linda

    1/15/2012 3:19:34 PM |

    Correct Spelling:  Myocardial Infarction

  • Helen Howes

    1/15/2012 4:19:31 PM |

    Er, Joke, sweetie..

    HH

  • Kokoboulis

    1/15/2012 4:34:48 PM |

    What an extremely informative article.

  • Anne

    1/15/2012 5:06:26 PM |

    In 2000 I had cardiac bypass after multiple failed stents. In 2003 I thought I was dying. I was short of breath and had pitting edema and many other health problems. My doctor told me I was probably reblocking and suggested a cardiac cath.

    I did not know about a connection between wheat and the heart but I did find a connection between my peripheral neuropathy and gluten. Up to the time I stopped gluten, I was carefully following the AHA dietary guidelines for a healthy heart. I even followed the Ornish diet for about a year. All I did was get sicker and sicker.  Dropping my favorite food(wheat) and all gluten was what made the big difference in my health. My PN is no longer painful or progressing. I also had complete resolution many other symptoms including the pitting edema and  shortness of breath. It has been over 8 years and my heart is still doing great.

    Of course there are other factors to consider which Dr. Davis addresses on his websites. Vitamin D, blood sugar, thyroid to name a few. I am a work in progress.

  • Teresa

    1/15/2012 7:52:30 PM |

    Dr. Davis
    I am not trying to say you are wrong, Quite the opposite, I think you are on the right track with your program.  But, have you had enough people in your program long enough to make a statistically significant sample?  I am sure there are more people in the world who don't follow your program than do.  That alone would make it more likely for the non-followers to have a heart attack.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/15/2012 10:44:04 PM |

    MI (myocardial infarction), usually a sequel of ischemia,  is often preceded by episode(s) of angina. In many resilient people the angina event offers the heart a chance to deploy inherent plasticity in what is called "pre-conditioning". Many  who have angina episodes 1-3 days before suffering a full on MI  seemingly paradoxically recover with less serious subsequent arrhythmia ,and for the next 1-5 years have lower susceptibility for in hospital dying (statistically).

    "Pre-conditioning" is a likely explanation for Doc's preventative MI protocol for many middle-age & up adults. Ischemia (felt as angina)causes a heart cell mitochondrial response, and also surface of that cell response. This involves channels & potassium Kiss with the same name in those respective membranes, but depending on which part is involved the level of reaction differs. And of course, there are isoform variations of this potassium Kiss ion channel that responds to ATP molecules (K-ATP).

    Mitochondrial K-ATP (mtKatp) is only discussed here. Ischemia results in some heart muscle cell not being able to sustain ATP output. In healthy heart cells it is  normal levels of ATP that keep the channel mtKatp closed. Healthy mitochondria don't ideally let in too much K because it makes them osmoticly swell inside, among other side effects.

    Potassium Kiss flooding into a mitochondria from a channel mtKatp opening up does several  significant things. One is keeping detrimental calcium (Ca++) from getting into the cardiac cell which is being forced to deal with a ischemic event. Otherwise Ca++  instigates unwanted pore openings in that mitochondria's membrane; letting the inside/outside balance of that mitochondria & the cytosol interact detrimentally.

    In other words a significant up-stream "pre-conditioning" benefit is from mtKatp channel opening in response to when that heart muscle cell is unfortunately suddenly challenged by ischemia. Doc tries to prevent high blood sugar (hyper-glycemia) like in metabolic syndrome & t ype II diabetes because hyper-glycemia itself opens mtKatp channels; but this is at the wrong time.

    Meaning the hyper-glycemic individual, despite having mtKatp channels quite open, has lost a large part of their potential heart cell plasticity (ie: recovery despite ischemia) because they can't turn on their  crucial natural "conditioned" response to ischemia . They lose an important preventative mode; since, for them,  the protective "pre-conditioning" dynamic can't flip "on" into action because it wasn't  kept primed in the "off" position. When young this doesn't usually matter because time hasn't set them up for ischemia yet.

  • Conan

    1/16/2012 3:17:01 PM |

    Dear Dr. Davis,
    Many people have confusion about who to believe on this issue like myself.  I have followed the low carb, no wheat diet for over a year.  HDL went up to 58 from 42.  I am a big fan of yours and convert to this lifestyle. The confusion happens like this:  I shared your book and forum with our family doctor, and told him about the results I had.  He seemed interested.  I saw him a few weeks later at a social event and his responses were this.
    1. LDL size is insignificant.  If he sees a patient with elevated cholesterol with pattern A LDL, he will still put them on a statin to stop Plaque progression, he sees it as insurance.
    2.   He says they are proven to stop plaque progression.
    3.  A person gets enough vitamin d from diet and walking to their mailbox everyday.
    4.  The only thing that matters to him is reducing total LDL to 50 or below for at risk patients.
    5.  If you have heart disease, than there is no need for a heart scan, because we already know you have heart disease.

    I think many people read your forum, get excited to hear about your approach, and then go talk to their primary care physician and get shot down on it.  It can be confusing and discouraging to say the least.

  • Kent

    1/16/2012 6:08:31 PM |

    Conan,
    That's the standard lingo fed down the medical pipeline. I've heard all of those as well. Plus this one; "there is nothing we can do to lower LP(a), so there is no since in testing for it".

  • Dotslady

    1/16/2012 8:20:35 PM |

    I've wanted to ask you to write about dairy and the heart since my heart attack, and now that you're done with Wheat Belly.   I talked with people years ago about your blog and about gluten-free (to no avail), and now they're telling ME about your book like it's a new discovery (how soon they forget!).  Funny.  

    I was dx celiac 2-06 at the almost age of 46.  I'm obese and initially gained 22 lbs going gluten free because I turned to Yoplait yogurt when I didn't know what to eat (+ learning to substitute SAD diet with gf SAD diet).  I learned about insulin via Jenny's Bloodsugar101 blog, and I've whittled away at changing my diet ever since.  So many bloggers have changed my life, and I'm so grateful because I'm getting some QUALITY of life I never knew before.  

    I was almost Paleo with a lot of cheating, and I continued having dairy until last year when I had a heart attack at age 49 after running my first 5K (trying to get healthy and lose weight).  

    I won't go into the history of why, but I was not taking my usual omega3 supplement.  I was supplementing with 5-HTP (100mg) along with other neuro support based on urine testing from ND/MD because I was still a bit depressed (how would I know?  I've only known depression, and I thought most of my depression abated going gf).   While most of my symptoms abated going gluten-free, I was and am still trying to overcome fibromyalgia.   Fibro: lack of energy.  Muscle fatigue.  Actually, for years I had a-fib on and off.  Sometimes it was my thyroid (I have Hashimoto's, and it was in range at the time of the MI, though they didn't do a panel of labs), most of the time it wasn't.  

    The year before my MI I went to cardiologist and I told him when I ate dairy (I'd gone from Yoplait full of rBGH at- the-time & sugar, to organic Greek full-fat plain) I had palpitations.  "Is it the calcium?" I asked.  "No, but here's an Rx for statins, hmm, though they'll exacerbate your fibro... How about some beta-blockers?"  I said I'd look into it (throwing the script into the trash).   I wore the Holter monitor and took EKGs, etc.  End of appt and relationship.  I continued to try to research online the best I could.

    The day before my first 5k, I was in a weird place emotionally - anxious.  I ate and couldn't fill myself.  I had 3,200 calories where I usually eat between 1,500-1,800.  I considered it "carb loading" before the race even though I never researched what that really meant (too busy researching everything else).  Here's my food log for the day before the MI:

    Bfast: Stonyfield cream on top plain full fat yogurt w/strawberries, blueberries, banana, flax meal, Member's Mark gf Spinach Asiago sausage.
    Lunch: Stonyfield gf English muffin, 3.25oz gf deli turkey, 8g butter.
    Dinner:  2 Amy's gf cheese enchilada dinners, 2 mangoes
    Snacks:  46g (unpopped) organic popcorn & 1 stick butter, 1 banana, 20g sunflower seeds, decaf coffee w/15g heavy whip cream.  I was about a month into going caffeine-free.
    Processed carbs:  148g, Fruit/other carbs: 154g Total:  302g
    Fat:  184g
    Protein: 101g
    Fiber: 39g

    My cholesterol at the time of MI:  
    TC: 206  
    Tri’s: 74  
    HDL: 49  
    LDL: 142
    A1C: 5.5 which translates to an avg bg 111
    BG: 118 (I'd been doing morning fasting tests, and it was hovering around 100, and I knew that wasn't good - hence the 5k.  I'd been walking for years though I was struggling to be consistent w/energy to exercise, something not uncommon w/fibro sufferers.)  
    BP: 150/82
    hsCRP: 3 (down from 6 which was down from 11 or 12 ~a year before)
    Heterozygous for Factor V Lieden discovered when I had a Boston Heart Lab cholesterol study ~a year before.  
    It was May, overcast, and not overly hot outside, more like the mid-60s - ideal even.

    Thyroid lab early May:  TSH .7
    Vitamin D:  tba. I have to look it up, but I have a history of tracking it and supplementing; it has been above 40 for years at least.  It's currently 65.

    I had one cup of water before the race.  After the race I ate a banana and 4 c water (+ water provided via Dixie cups along the route which were a pittance).  I was red faced and hot.  I drove home to take a long, HOT magnesium bath, and went to bed due to fatigue.  I don't remember if I drank more water, or much more than that.  I was actually having the heart attack that night, but at the time I didn't realize it.  I awakened around 5 a.m. from a long, unfit sleep, even though EXHAUSTED.  I tried to eat a sweet potato for bfast but had anxiety - I had a bite or so, but kept putting the fork to my mouth and down to the plate.  I had a hard time catching my breath.  My left arm felt like a blood pressure cuff was stuck on inflate.  I called doctor neighbor who didn't answer, then called out-of-state husband who told me to take an aspirin.  I hadn't thought of it.  Oh dear - I had to find a gf aspirin, which I luckily had some expired gf baby aspirin, and took one.  In 20 minutes it was lessening my arm pain.  

    I got to the ER, and THEN had to navigate the health care system as to what gluten was.  They thought I was crazy to worry if they're high dose aspirin or sublingual nitro had gluten - this, from two nurses with "IBS" ... the cardiologist has a regimen of drugs to give prior to the heart cath and I had them looking into the gluten ... the hospital DID have a gf menu (wonders!), but got the order wrong a few times and had to redo the meals.  I'm so glad I had my wits about me.  I lost two pounds in the hospital eating strictly Paleo. ;0)

    A few months prior to this, I'd seen a hematologist to figure out my mysterious leg pains.  Most of my fibro pain went away with gf diet change, trying to balance my hormones, TRYING to get more sleep, exercise, etc.  But I couldn't shake the pain in my largest muscles.  I'd read about rhabdomyolysis and asked him to do a CK test as a base for when I wasn't in pain.  Sure enough, it was normal.   Whenever I'd try to jog hard I'd get horrible pain in my legs which took about 5-6 days to recover.  There were a few times I exercised so hard they seized up, esp the day after and it was all I could do to get to the bathroom - sitting was an ordeal!   It wasn't normal for as long as I'd been exercising, to have this pain.  I know people who run and never have pain, so it bothered me I had this and couldn't push harder.  

    Sure enough after the 5k my quads were killing me.  The ER checked my CK, CK-MB, and troponin.  All were elevated.  When I brought up my theory about fibro and CK to the cardiologist he said everyone's CK goes up after exercise.   What am I to think?  Am I naive?  My heart cath was clear.  I was given marching orders to followup with my GP.  He told me to take a baby aspirin daily, but I'm trying to heal a leaky gut and don't do that.  I have taken fish oil again non-stop though.  

    I read about dysautonomia, rhabdo/dehydration, hypoglycemia, and electrolyte imbalance.  I can't help but think my lack of energy had something to do with my heart attack.   I contacted a neurologist who said he didn't believe in fibro, and then tested/probed my muscles (they were responsive).  

    Then I heard a podcast between Dr. Rosedale by Jimmy Moore.  Dr. Rosedale said (my words) that saturated fat covers your cell and energy can't get in (you need a balance of fats for cell membrane integrity).  Well, I'd been unbalanced.  I took a special, new blood test* and found my body reacts to dairy fat like gluten (which is hard on the adrenals therefore pushing cortisol? - my thoughts).  

    I quit dairy completely and my daily, constant nagging quad/ham leg pain went away, I sleep better, my palpitations went away, my depression got, yet again, better, AND I lost 25 lbs EASILY (which is not something to which I'm accustomed).  

    FWIW, I am very lactose TOLERANT.   When you hear about giving up dairy in the celiac community, it's often because a person is lactose intolerant not because of other food intolerance symptoms.   I was stubborn in giving up dairy because I was dependent on the negative drug-like effect it had on me.  I STILL crave it now and then, too.  You don't realize it until you give it up completely: not 90%, not 99%, but 100%.

    I am just now trying a boot camp and have better exercise tolerance; my pain is still more exaggerated but I recover in time to exercise again in two days.  

    Thanks for letting me share my story, and I appreciate all that you contribute to the awareness of heart health.  I've been a reader since 2006.

  • jhailstone

    1/16/2012 8:24:26 PM |

    I don't think wheat is that bad. If you have been eating a lot of white flour products then you can become gluten sensitive. But, if you use sprouted wheat bread and find out about wheat grass juice, you can have awesome health. I think it is the GMO wheat to watch out for the most.

  • Dotslady

    1/16/2012 8:47:34 PM |

    oops, forgot:
    * Cyrex Labs Array 4 for Cross-Reactive Foods, info here:  http://bit.ly/thedrxreactivitypdf or www.thedr.com (Gluten World tab).

    I responded to "milk butyrophilin" which is a milk fat protein.  Upon Googling around, I find it's associated with Multiple Sclerosis (http://bit.ly/ze5xOI).  I have enough autoimmune diseases, and will continue on my happy Paleo path.

  • Dotslady

    1/16/2012 9:11:44 PM |

    Sorry, one more thing:  I am a slow caffeine metabolizer which apparently makes me more prone to heart attack:  http://bit.ly/zbc8L0 (even though I'd been off caffeine for a month or so, I thought it was interesting).

  • Joanna

    1/16/2012 10:54:01 PM |

    Gluten is gluten, whether it is in white flour or whole wheat or several other grains like barley.  Ask anyone who is gluten sensitive or a full blown celiac - and I know several,  any gluten will make them very sick.  It is a protein that their body cannot digest.  And it doesn't matter whether it is from GMO wheat or not.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/17/2012 1:03:51 AM |

    Hi Dotslady,
    For seratonin's (5HT) 16 different receptors to work they have to take routes that are paths which result in an increase in Calcium (Ca++) in that cell interior (cytoplasm).  Seratonin is an amine molecule. In humans there are 9 different trans-glut-aminase enzymes that when turned on by Ca++ binding  can also process the amine seratonin.

    "Seraton-ylation" is the result of action by trans-glut-aminase enzymes causing seratonin metabolites that then interact with other cellular processes. Thus "seraton-ylation" of fibronectin results in more smooth muscle cells being produced & in another relevant instance induces platelets to put out proteins that foster coagulation.

    2007 Japan  researcher  Miyazaki, et.al. (J Cardiovasc Pharmacol 2007 Apr;49(4):221-227) blocked seratonin & relieved symptoms of peripheral artery disease (PAD). Leg pains you suffer may be  PAD endothelial dysfunction from too much Ca++ influx into muscle cell's cytosol. And your 5HTP (precusor of seratonin) supplementation could be contra.-indicated.

    Dairy has tryptophan & the calcium needed to process it into seratonin; yet your doctor told you dairy's calcium content was not the problem. Your depression bio-chemistry suggests altered seratonin metabolism. One's genetic variants of seratonin routing pathways are a jumble of factors, including particulars of calcium (ie: calcium channels in that cell's membrane & the site of stored Ca++ already inside that cell ); all modulated by seratonin reception peculiarities.

    Your blood pressure of 150/82  may be due to "seraton-ylation" of fibronectin proliferating too many arterial cells (hyper-plasia) leading to stiffer blood vessel making for more tension (hyper-tension) as lcse ideal  contraction/rebound.(for geeks: 5HT2a receptor & transglutaminase induce serotonylation of a GTPase RhoA affecting proteasome's down of GTPase in a way that upregulates Akt thereby engendering proliferation of arterial smooth muscle cells resulting in diminished contraction capacity). Breathing problem you described is also precisely researched as  part of the "seraton-nylation" sequel involving trans-glutaminase using seratonin as an amine, not a hormone.

    Normally people with elevated seratonin in circulation have a natural protective response whereby the number of seratonin receptors perched waiting in the cell membrane is reduced. But your vascular smooth muscle cells actually seem over receptive to seratonin & you've been innocently topping up with 100mg 5HTP daily (how long?) .

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/17/2012 2:28:25 AM |

    I think you will find a hailstorm of opposition to that notion, jhail.

    I would invite you to read my book, Wheat Belly, that exposes modern wheat for the fraud it is.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/17/2012 2:32:18 AM |

    Wow, Dots.

    A revealing story. I'm glad you found your answer . . . despite your doctors.

    Yes, dairy is a big problem for select people. I pick on wheat because it is a HUGE problem. But, for some, dairy can be a substantial second.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/17/2012 2:34:47 AM |

    Yes, it is, Conan.

    I can tell you that your doctor is reading the commentary and editorials in the medical journals and what we call "throwaways," the low-grade magazines that physicians are sent that are really thin disguises for advertising. It means he is not reading the primary literature, nor gaining an experience, nor is he thinking. He is simply regurgitating the superficial thinking of those who write these pieces. These pieces tend to be CYA with a slant towards drugs.

    We are making progress, but it is painfully slow!

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/17/2012 2:42:10 AM |

    Informally, Teresa, there are approximately 1000 patients in the office who follow the diet, about 300 who do not. (The rest have non-coronary syndromes that are not relevant.) This was not a comparison to a population outside the office.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/17/2012 2:43:03 AM |

    Hi, Anne-

    Yes, but you have come a long way, much on your own intelligence, strength of character, and persistence!

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/17/2012 2:43:59 AM |

    No.

    I meant myocardial "infraction."

    It was a joke.

  • Craig

    1/17/2012 7:52:43 AM |

    Even if you're lactose intolerant, milk in the US and Europe contains mainly A1 casein, while milk in Africa and Asia contains A2 casein. If anyone can't live without dairy, they should try to make sure they get it from an A2 cow such as a Guernsey.
    More info: http://www.betacasein.org/?p=heart-disease

  • Galina L

    1/17/2012 3:01:17 PM |

    @ Might,
    I noticed that people differ by how much they need to eat milk products. I don't  particularly care about anything made out of milk with the exception of butter and heavy cream for my coffee, even cheese (I eat it anyway because I keep buying it for other family members, but I would always choose some deli meat over a cheese) Does it mean their preference may depend on which path their serotonin takes? Some people actually crave such tasteless things like cottage cheese and plain yogurt.  It feels like there is some physiological difference besides taste preference..

  • jp

    1/17/2012 7:54:16 PM |

    Al- epic as usual. thanks so much for your posts. I don't have the background to truly comprehend much of what you say but I do love reading it. And it does help in an over-all general knowledge kind of way.
    Doc- Thanks again for taking the time. It's tragic that too many of us (myself included) don't find out about this stuff until AFTER we've been stented OR WORSE. I only got here by innocently trying to find out about possible side effects for the 80mg/day of lipitor  they put me on no questions asked or answered. I'm still pissed about the quality of care I get from any cardiology related people I've seen. Yet I'm still afraid to  not take my meds.

  • jhailstone

    1/17/2012 8:19:13 PM |

    In reply to the above comments - I'm aware that people who are gluten sensitive should stay away from all gluten products. However, for the rest of us, it's best to try to choose whole grain products. I have a friend who was a food science major, who told me that people become gluten sensitive from having eaten too many white flour products in their life. But, I know people who are gluten sensitive who can have sprouted grain breads and sprouted grain drinks. Everyone should avoid the GMO products though.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/17/2012 9:41:42 PM |

    Hi GalinaL,
    Others here have pointed out eating dairy give us a caseo-morph (ie: opiate like molecule) & this engenders an opiate brain response; so probably one's  real time response of contentment from eating dairy.  Then too dairy's tryptophan/calcium combo producing a bit of extra seratonin in popular legend is supposed to be how warm milk relaxes some into sleep.
    "Seraton-ylation" is less about seratonin in a nerve synapse.  It is  how different  tissue cells' internal processing is modified after interaction with the unique amine characteristics of seratonin  (as opposed to any neuro-endocrine functions of seratonin). Your idea of dairy lovers sounds more like a conditioned response anticipating caseo-morphs; much like Doc says modern wheat can condition some people's neuro-physiology to crave wheat.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/17/2012 11:52:59 PM |

    Hi jp,
    Depression is unfortunately common after MI (myocardial infarction); which you may know from fellow patients or first hand. Long term ( not short duration use) of anti-depressant drug SSRI (selective seratonin re-uptake inhibitors) is associated with less MI fatatlity. First this was assumed to be due to SSRIs side effect of  reducing platelets (ie: thinner blood circulating) but 2011 published research disproved that mechanistic linear explanation.

    The "Baltimore ECA Follow-up Study" (1981-1994) noted a higher incidence of heart disease for the depressed and those notably sad beyond +/- 2 weeks straight. Curiously, the depression link was more of a significant  factor for younger women followed up on. And most statistical reports concur that those with continual depression after an MI show an increased rate of fatality.

    Seems there is an interplay between one's  "seraton-ylation" ( seratonin amine metabolism) quirks in the heart muscle cells (or other tissues) and the useable seratonin neuro-endocrine metabolism in the brain cells. I have a simplified explanation for this paradox (SSRI= good; yet seraton-ylation = risky) ; but nuances aren't detailed here & I may (!) be mistaken.

    In true depression seratonin isn't performing normally in nerve synapses (ie: seratonin plucked back from the synapse action site too fast, precisely what re-uptake inhibitors slow down) so there is no need to contribute so many seratonin molecules to building up a reserve pool of seratonin for nerves to have ready to put into action (ie: pool always full enough since seratonin just pulled back in right away; or seratonin rarely even leaves pool to action site). This under-functioning leaves the depressed individual without the normal programming prioritizing seratonin  for nerves. In a sense their seratonin  may be more readily programmed to be used in non-nerve situations (ex: seraton-ylation leading to excess calcium in heart cell) in that individual.

    The prolonged use of drug SSRI (ie: keeps seratonin lingering in the nerve synapse) indirectly favors seratonin getting put into the back-up nerve seratonin pool. The nerve cells in due time  register  they can/need to top up with seratonin. This is a variation of  "use it , or lose it" - and the individual re-programs to "fill" the nerve seratonin pool  with an accompanying down-shift of  some of the less important "seraton-ylation" farther away from the brain.

    Unfortunately, not everyone's genetics will be able to re-organzize to prioritize nerve dynamic. Some might be stuck favoring  "seraton-ylation" in vascular smooth muscle cells, no matter how long the SSRI make the nerve seratonin pools ideal to orientate seratonin programs around.

  • Galina L

    1/18/2012 1:23:27 AM |

    Thank you.

  • PHK

    1/18/2012 5:39:45 AM |

    Mighty-Al,
    this is the 1st time i heard that angina as "pre-conditioning" of MI hence improving the survival/recovery rate!
    your other comment equally awesome
    thanks!

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/18/2012 6:39:00 PM |

    Hi PHK,
    Pre-conditioning phenomena can be from other triggers other than occlusion of heart (ischemia). In ischemia the heart cell(s) affected tries to cope in quick time by instigating  the 1st stage(s) of pre-conditioning. This last for up to 3 hours. (The dynamics other than mitochondria Potassium, mtKatp, are quite convoluted.)

    Then there is a delayed 2nd stage while that cell tries to switch over to put out the altered proteins that will act to limit any damage (minimize extent of infarct). This requires enough time for  that cell nucleus to get working on new program of suitable proteins ; the cell nucleus can preventatively shut down for hours without that cell dying.

    Ideally after 12 hours the last stage of  pre-conditioning kicks  into gear and that gives cardio-protection for up to 3-4 days. This span of  protection corresponds to statistic of hospitalized myocardial infarction (MI) patients who had episode of angina 1-3 prior showing better prognosis.
    Once the 2nd (late) of pre-conditioning in effect a lot of the benefit is from greater mitochondrial anti-oxidant levels up and running. This MnSOD keeps nitric oxide (NO) from being depleted by interactions with the reactive oxygen (ROS) on the loose as the heart cell tries to get back to using oxygen inside that cell normally.

    ACE inhibitor drugs & dietary providers of that same inhibition (ex: mycelial/fungal fermented soy bean ACE inhibiting hydrolized by-products like miso and japanese "touchi"- black soy bean  enbedded in aspergillus  oryzae +/- 1 year) afford protection from infarct damage via molecular action just like 2nd stage pre-conditioning does. They do this by acting on the bradykinin molecules a challenged heart puts out; and then downstream there is more MnSOD available to take on the ROS load in order to not waste NO in reactions with those ROS.  

    Exercise benefit to the heart is partly because it increases mitochondrial MnSOD; creating a predisposition for late stage pre-conditioning. One of the paradox of exercise is that it induces more inflammation molecules. The cytokines TNF-alpha & IL-1B acting in synergy (not stand alone drivers) induce cascades downstream that make muscles put out more MnSOD.

    "Warm-up Angina" is a long recognized phenomena which is akin to an exercise ischemia. The push from one's resting heart wave and subsequent time recuperating  are suggested to be a version of  early stage pre-conditioning. This conditions one so that there is more time before same amount of exercise would drive you to hit an ischemia challenge; and also one would have to get hit by a greater degree of oxygen drop to trigger any ischemia challenge. The plasticity of the heart gets trained.

  • Joanna

    1/18/2012 9:14:27 PM |

    Another cause of post MI depression was pointed out to me by a friend who was familiar with the drugs prescribed after an MI.  One of the most common is a beta blocker which is designed to lower blood pressure and slow down the heart (I believe I got that right), so that the heart can heal.  One of the side effects (which nobody mentioned when prescribing the drugs) is that they make you feel physically lethargic due to the decrease in heart rate which can then lead to a perception of being depressed (rather than the type of serotonin related depression AL was talking about) because you don't feel like doing your usual level of activity, you may not even feel like getting off the couch - and you may not even realize why!  The lack of information about what to expect and the side effects of all the various drugs used was astounding.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/18/2012 11:31:10 PM |

    Permit me to revisit Dotslady's myocardial infarction (MI, heart attack):
    marathon over & by 5 a.m. she  suspects an MI. Thus, after  usual interlude of 12 hours any 1st phase of pre-conditioning did not manifest enough (any?) 2nd phase pre-conditioning to prevent her hospitalization for MI.
    She had labored breathing after 12 hours instead. Pulmonary artery smooth muscle has the enzyme trans-glut-aminase II in between it's elastin & collagen "cables" layers.
    The pulmonary artery cells' seraton-ylation (via trans-glut-aminase II) make for a version of  contraction (calcium influx & possibly cyto-skeletal filament actin alters). The increased resistance forced her pulmonary artery to struggle (labor) just to keep up with the base line need for oxygenated blood by the brain & vital organs.
    Nitric oxide (NO) is capable of influencing the trans-glut-aminase enzyme and even keeps less amount of that enzyme being  deployed. But without the 2nd phase of pre-condtioning's MnSOD too much NO is busy being wasted interacting with ROS. And considering how Prozac (fluoxetine, traditionally used as a brain SSRI seratonin tweaker) inhibits trans-glut-aminase II enzyme we can see how an appropriate doseage of it (ie: enough fluoxetine drug to infuse relevant tissue cells other than the brain) helps in panic/anxiety to relieve breathing. Prozac blunts the ability of seraton-ylation to go forward in the pulmonary artery by an additional independant avenue than how it is otherwise acting in the brain.
    Looks like Dotslady's dys-functional seratonin (ex: depression) hard wiring apparently did let some pulmonary artery seraton-ylation go forward after 12 hours. And then elsewhere seraton-ylation seems to have progressively gotten worse in some cardiac artery smooth muscle cells adding to the occlusion afflicting (attack) her heart muscle myocyte cells.
    She is even a young, doctor guided & low-carb exerciser. Which suggests to me that seratonin quirks in some individuals can unfortunately over-ride the ability to get into play the 2nd phase of pre-conditioning.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/19/2012 5:52:36 PM |

    Dr. Davis gave succinct MI advice (above) : "...supplement iodine and correct any thyroid dysfunction...." Just in case anyone misses that connection to my layman comments  I'll specify the relevance.
    Low thyroid has (for decades) been clinically  associated with depression & Doc  is very concerned with adult onset hypo-thyroid. Examples of Prozac (fluoxetine) were given because drugs illustrate the seratonin factor.
    My references to SSRI anti-depressant drugs  do not negate Doc's protocol for preventing MI.  Part of his clinical success may be how protocol limits adverse seraton-ylation.

  • PHK

    1/20/2012 8:58:42 AM |

    Might,
    awesome! thanks!
    pam

  • Dotslady

    1/20/2012 7:26:42 PM |

    Hi Might o'chroni AL:  
    I appreciate your response, and I understood a lot of it.  I will reread it to understand more as time goes on.  FYI: the date of the heart attack was May 16, 2010.  

    I had to look up my notes on how long I took the 5-HTP.  I took a formulary supplement: Travacor by Neuroscience (http://bit.ly/zhayn2), which I understand from my MD/ND had 100mg of 5-HTP for about 5 months.  

    When I took my first dose it alleviated my leg pains(yay!), but I had side effect of a piercing headache in the back of my cerebellum area for a few hours while awakening, and in the morning.  However, after that few hours of pain, I was jubilant because I felt a sense of contentment I'd never felt before.  MD/ND told me to cease the supplement for a week, then titrate the dose to prevent the headaches.  I learned serotonin is also in your cerebellum, and even your eyes.  When I titrated the dose I never got back the lack of leg pain, nor the sense of contentment.

    Anyway, I continued taking them, and by the time I had the heart attack, I was up to 2 pills.  By May 10, I'd added L-tryptophan (Jarrow, 500mg) for about 3 weeks with no effect, so I stopped that, and then added 50mg 5-HTP.  I noted I slept somewhat better.  That was for about 6 days before the heart attack.  I made no note of it, but I may have even tried taking 2-50mg 5-HTP for a few nights trying to sleep better.  

    All the while, all I had to do was give up dairy.  At your suggestion, I've looked into PAD, but can't imagine it as I associate it with calf pain.  I will bring it up with my doctor nonetheless.  Thank you again for your response.  

    Dr. Davis:

    I agree.

  • Dotslady

    1/20/2012 8:03:16 PM |

    If that were true, would babies have celiac disease?  Or is that because their parents ate too much gluten?  

    Having an HLA-DQ gene predisposes a person to autoimmune disease.  Even then there are people without the genes we KNOW about for celiac in particular, HLA-DQ2 and HLA-DQ8, who don't tolerate gluten.  Up to 80% of the population has at least one HLA gene according to Dr. Fine of www.enterolab.com.   Approx. 30% of people of European descent have celiac genes in particular.  Autoimmune disease is triggered by stress (psychological or physical, chronic or sudden), virus, surgery, or pregnancy (which are all stresses to the body).  It's also triggered by eating gluten - whole grain or otherwise.  I wonder if you have the gene, or have stress in your life.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/21/2012 12:06:25 AM |

    Hi Dotslady,
    Your 5HTP supplement link shows it includes taurine. Taurine is pretty basic - yet your genetics seem to challenge a few basics.
    Since  published in 1997 "Taurine Depletion, a novel mechanism for cardioprotection from ischemia" (see AJP-Heart, Oct. 1997; vol.273, No,4:H1956-H1961) has  influenced  research (2001 example is http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/298/3/1167.full).
    Anyway, you took 5-HTP supplement with added in taurine. Taurine can accumulate in a heart cell  myocyte provoking unwanted conditions.
    Beta-alanine molecule (which can not build up residually in a cell) is the crucially protective end-product from the Meditteranean Diet's high % of poly-amines per calorie of food volume ingested. Ignobly named, spermine, spermidine & putrescene are key poly-amines that we mammals can process into  Beta-alanine, which is what  counter-acts excess taurine in cells & thus protects heart muscle (ie: why Med Diet is heart healthy despite the dietician "No-No" items eaten) .

  • Peggy Holloway

    1/21/2012 1:56:47 AM |

    I got it!

  • Runner2012

    1/23/2012 5:07:55 PM |

    Dr Davis:

    I've been supplementing with Vitamin D3 for the last couple of years since a test revealed a level of 31 ng/dL. I'm now at 48 ng/dL. However I saw this recent finding that is of concern to me:

    American Journal of Cardiology
    Volume 109, Issue 2 , Pages 226-230, 15 January 2012
    Relation Between Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D and C-Reactive Protein in Asymptomatic Adults (From the Continuous National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 2001 to 2006)

    "In conclusion, from this cohort of asymptomatic adults, independent of traditional cardiovascular risk factors, we observed a statistically significant inverse relation between 25(OH)D at levels <21 ng/ml and CRP. We found that 25(OH)D at a level ≥21 ng/ml is associated with an increase in serum CRP. It is possible that the role of vitamin D supplementation to reduce inflammation is beneficial only among those with a lower serum 25(OH)D."

    http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149%2811%2902748-2/abstract

  • sete

    1/23/2012 5:47:20 PM |

    Runner2012,

    The references for that article might give you some more helpful information. I thought these were good for adding more perspective to the study and its conclusions;

    Michos ED, Streeten EA, Ryan KA, Rampersaud E, Peyser PA, Bielak LF, et al. Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels are not associated with subclinical vascular disease or C-reactive protein in the old order Amish . Calcif Tissue Int . 2009;84:195–202;

    Pittas AG , Harris SS , Stark PC , Dawson-Hughes B . The effects of calcium and vitamin D supplementation on blood glucose and markers of inflammation in nondiabetic adults . Diabetes Care . 2007;30:980–986;

    Jorde R , Sneve M , Torjesen PA , Figenschau Y , Gøransson LG , Omdal R . No effect of supplementation with cholecalciferol on cytokines and markers of inflammation in overweight and obese subjects . Cytokines . 2010;50:175–180.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/31/2012 2:33:00 AM |

    This was a flawed study with only so much potential to extract conclusions. The design of the study makes it hypothesis-generating, at best.

  • Lee

    2/29/2012 10:40:04 PM |

    Your doctor isn''t current. You are better informed than he is.
    I''d find a new doctor.

  • dotslady

    6/21/2012 4:36:11 PM |

    Dear Dr. Williams,

    An update:  I figured out my fibro pain source:  I'm amine intolerant (histamine and likely tyramine - I'm working on an elimination diet).  I was on to something about the dairy, but it's more about fermented dairy, i.e. yogurt.  If you look at the diet journal I shared from the day before my heart attack, it was full of histamine:  yogurt, strawberries, blueberries, banana, sausage, deli turkey, frozen meals w/cheese and spicy tomato/enchilada sauce, mangoes (I know now if I have two that it's one too many), sunflower seeds.  Histamine levels fluctuate w/dose ingested and what the body can clear/process.  There's no testing in the USA that I know of for the enzymes responsible for clearing histamine (DAO and NMNT), hence the next best Rx: elimination diet.  My recent serum histamine and tryptase level was in normal lab range, but as I know from gluten intolerance this is not reason to not try diet.  I have joggled three days in a row 6.5 miles and without pain!   I asked my cardiologist at my annual checkup if histamine could have caused my heart attack.  He said he hadn't heard of it.  I know there are histamine receptors on the heart.  Yes, I've tried anti-histamines (don't work), and I've used with SOME affect a product called Histame.  Like with celiac disease I didn't have the "usual" GI symptoms.  My symptom would have been migraines .. in my LEGS (not my head); and I have two distinct pains - 1) hamstring aching and sometimes the striated muscles feel like taught piano strings, and 2) aching like a pushed and pulsating bruise above my left knee.  The more histamine I ingest the pain grows to the right leg (the hamstring pain always seems to start in the right hams).  Fermented foods cause the bruise-type ache above the knees; palpitations, and ankle edema (exacerbated by stress - always starts in the left leg and the more histamine I ingest it moves then also to the right ankle).  Too strenuous exercise is a stress btw.  Emotional stress also causes left ankle edema.  Could exercise stress, food allergy stress, emotional stress cause my heart attack?  I think so for me anyway.  I would REALLY appreciate your cardiologist thoughts about this as it affects 1-5% of the population (like celiac/gluten intolerance), and they don't know.  Since we have mast cells all over our body, everyone's symptoms are different.   Typical symptoms for histamine intolerance involve the GI or migraine/headaches, but until I read something about palpitations I never considered it.   DAO enzyme is made within a healthy intestinal mucosa.  I remember having these symptoms the year my Hashimoto's was dx in 1996 and attributing it to hypothyroidism.   I recently had a repeat Cyrex Labs Array 2 Leaky Gut test to assess my healing.  My first test I was still leaky, and this year it's mostly within normal limits.   I'm healing with gluten/grain/dairy/egg white/corn/legume/mostly nightshade  free diet (I have recently reintroduced potatoes, unfortunately that also includes chips!).  I'm experimenting w/elimination diet.   The crux of this?  Gluten damaged my gut and my health steadily went downhill.  I'm on the mend and excited for the first time since my celiac dx in 2006.  Thanks - have been reading your book - it's a great book!

  • dotslady

    6/21/2012 4:50:27 PM |

    edit to correct:  the second histamine enzyme acronym is HNMT not HMNT as written above.  It stands for Histamine N-methyltransferase (I've also read it as HMT).  DAO is diamine oxidase.  http://bit.ly/daohistamine

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