Why an RDA for vitamin D?

The Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) of the Institute of Medicine is charged with setting the values for the Recommended Daily Allowances of various essential nutrients. However, when it comes to vitamin D, the FNB decided that "evidence is insufficient to develop an RDA and [an Adequate Intake, AI] is set at a level assumed to ensure nutritional adequacy."

The National Institutes of Health Office of Dietary Supplements lists the AI's for various groups of people:

14-18 years
Male 200 IU
Female 200 IU

19-50 years
Male 200 IU
Female 200 IU

51-70 years
Male 400 IU
Female 400 IU

71+ years
Male 600 IU
Female 600 IU


A reconsideration is apparently being planned in near-future that will (hopefully) incorporate the newest clinical data on vitamin D.

My question: Who cares what the FNB decides? Let me explain.

I monitor blood levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D to assess the 1) starting level of vitamin D without supplementation, and 2) levels while on supplementation, preferably every 6 months (during sunny weather, during cold weather). I have done for the past 3 years in over 1000 people.

The requirement for vitamin D dose in adults, in my experience, ranges from as low as 1000 units per day to as high as 20,000 units per day, rarely more. The vast majority of women require 5000 units per day, males 6000 units per day to maintain a blood level in the desirable range. (I aim for 60-70 ng/ml.) A graph of the distribution of vitamin D needs in my area (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) is a bell curve, a curve more heavily weighted towards the upper vitamin D dose range.

Need for vitamin D to achieve the same blood level is influenced by age, sex, body size, race, presence or absence of a gallbladder, as well as other factors. But needs vary, even among similar people. For instance, a 50-year old woman weighing 140 lbs might need 4000 units per day to achieve a blood level of 25-hydroxy vitamin D of 65 ng/ml. Another 50-year old woman weighing 140 lbs might need 8000 units to achieve the same level, and 4000 units might increase her level to only 38 ng/ml. Two similar women, very different vitamin D needs. The differences can be striking.

Being a hormone--not a vitamin, as it was incorrectly labeled--vitamin D needs to be tightly regulated. We should have neither too little nor too much. I would liken it to thyroid hormones, which need to be tightly regulated for ideal health.

Now the FNB, in light of new data, wants to set new AI's, or even RDA's, for vitamin D for the U.S. This is an impossible--impossible--task. There is no way a broad policy can be crafted that serves everyone. It is impossible to state that all men or women, categorized by age, require X units vitamin D. This is pure folly and it is misleading.

The only rational answer for the FNB to provide is to declare that:

It is not possible to establish the precise need for vitamin D in a specific individual because of the multiplicity of factors, only some of which are known, that determine vitamin D needs. Individual need can only be determined by assessing the blood level of 25-hydroxy vitamin D prior to initiation of replacement and periodically following replacement to assess the adequacy of replacement dose. Continuing reassessment is recommended (e.g., every 6-12 months), as needs change with weight, lifestyle, and age.

Sure, it adds around $100-150 per year per person for lab testing to assess vitamin D levels. But the health gains made--reduced fractures, reduced incidence of diabetes, reduced colon, breast, and prostate cancer, less depression, reduced heart attack and heart procedures--will more than compensate.

Comments (10) -

  • Jake

    1/24/2009 5:18:00 AM |

    Amen

  • Anonymous

    1/24/2009 3:13:00 PM |

    Great great article. My mom  (here in Wisconsin) has no gallbladder and has been suffering for years with chronic issues and never tested for D until I suggested it as result of your blog.
    Her doc "went along with it" and she came in around 20ng - is now supplementing but still not enough of course but I'm passing this to her. (She is without major episodes since taking the D)

    She had just about every specialist and every test except the D over the past 5 years; scans and scans and measurements of potassium, etc...

  • Grandma S.

    1/26/2009 12:01:00 AM |

    From reading your blog I had mine tested and started taking 2,000 a day and now it is 75.  What would be too high a level?
    Thank you.

  • Anonymous

    1/26/2009 2:15:00 AM |

    Interesting. My results were 48 and my doc did not say a word about it. I have no idea how much totake to get to the 60ish you suggest. If my doc doesn't help, who do I turn to?
    Stevie

  • StephenB

    1/26/2009 6:31:00 PM |

    Stevie wrote:
    "If my doc doesn't help, who do I turn to?"

    No doctor needed. Get the vitamin D test kit from vitamindcouncil.org, or a blood test from lef.org. It's a great investment.

  • Grandma S.

    1/27/2009 4:55:00 PM |

    Anonymous, My Vit D results were 44 and am now taking 1000 x 2 (Vit D gelcaps). My results are now 75.

  • Lisa

    12/28/2009 5:18:44 PM |

    Hi,
          I am The assistant editor with disease.com. I really liked your site and I am interested in building a relationship with your site. We want to spread public awareness. I hope you can help me out. Your site is a very useful resource.

    Please email me back with your URl in subject line to take a step ahead an to avoid spam.

    Thank you,
    Lisa Hope
    lisa.disease.com@gmail.com

  • Dave, RN

    7/28/2010 6:05:10 PM |

    I work for a cardiac home care agency, and we're trying to come up with some standard for measuring and testing. There doesn't seem to be any consensus and what the protocol should be. Suggestions?

  • Jim

    7/29/2010 9:10:29 PM |

    My former doctor wouldn't order a Vitamin D or VAP test for me because I'm she "had no reason, you're a healthy, young man."  I went to another doctor who ordered the tests, and my Vitamin D was 31.  Coincidentally, my HDL was not as high as I expected considering I eat Paleo and take an Omega3 supplement 3x a day.

    I started taking 4,000 iu of Vitamin D per day and very curious to see how that will affect both my Vitamin D levels and my HDL.

    One question:  Is it recommended that pregnant women take smaller amounts of Vit D?  I'm sure my wife also has low Vit D levels, but we're expecting a baby.  Of course there's no magic number for all people (as this article states) but is 2,000iu generally too high for pregnant women?

    Thanks!

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 6:34:21 PM |

    While body composition certainly isn't a prerequisite for being part of a classic comedy team, I couldn't help but notice that Stan had the makings of a skinny-fat bean pole checking in at 5' 10" and only 148 pounds. Those stats make him sound like a diehard distance runner or a chain smoker.

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A victory for SHAPE, CT heart scans, and doing what is RIGHT

A victory for SHAPE, CT heart scans, and doing what is RIGHT

The efforts of Texas House of Representatives Rep. Rene Oliveira and the SHAPE Guidelines committee have paid off: The Texas legislature passed a bill that requires health insurers to cover CT heart scans.

(NOTE: Don't make the same mistake that the media often makes and confuse CT heart scans with CT coronary angiography: two different tests, two different results, two different levels of radiation exposure. The difference is discussed here.)

Track Your Plaque previously reported the release of the SHAPE Guidelines, an ambitious effort to open CT heart scanning to people who would benefit from a simple screening test for coronary disease. Rep. Rene Oliveira initially introduced the bill in 2006, after having a heart scan uncovered extensive coronary plaque that resulted in coronary bypass surgery.

The bill requires that health-benefit providers cover the cost of CT heart scans (and carotid ultrasound) in men between the ages of 45-76, women 55-76, as well as anyone with diabetes or at "intermediate-risk" or higher for coronary disease by Framingham risk score.

The usual panel of cardiology knuckleheads stepped to the media podium, expressing their incredulity that something as "unvalidated" as heart scans could gain the backing of legislative mandate. Heartwire carried this comment:

"Contacted by heartwire, Dr Amit Khera (University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas) confirmed there are still no comprehensive, adequately powered studies showing that these screening tests lead to better outcomes. In a phone interview, Khera said he has major concerns about how physicians will use these tests, particularly primary-care physicians. "I gave a talk last week to primary-care doctors, and there were probably 250 people in the room, and when I asked how many people had ordered a calcium scan, just one person raised a hand. . . . Most people don't even know what to do with the Framingham risk score, so they're going to follow an algorithm that they don't know how to follow to order a test result that they don't know what to do with."

It's the same criticisms hurled at heart scans over the years despite literally thousands of studies validating their application.

Studies have conclusively shown that:

--Coronary calcium scores generated by a CT heart scan outperform any other risk measure for coronary disease, including LDL cholesterol, c-reactive protein, total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, blood pressure.
--Coronary calcium scores yield a graded, trackable index of coronary risk. Scores that increase correlate with increased risk of cardiovascular events; scores that remain unchanged correlate with much reduced risk.
--A coronary calcium score of zero--no detectable calcium--correlates with extremely low 5-year risk for cardiovascular events.
--Coronary calcium scores correlate with other measures of coronary disease. Heart scans correlate with coronary angiography, quantitative coronary angiography, carotid ultrasound (intimal-medial thickness and plaque severity), ankle-brachial index, and stress tests, including radionuclide (nuclear) perfusion imaging.

The reluctance of my colleagues to embrace heart scans stems from two issues, for the most part:

1) No study has yet been performed showing that knowing what the score is vs. not knowing what the score is changes prognosis. That's true. But it is also true of the great majority of practices in medicine. While many wrongs don't make a right, the miserable and widespread failure of other coronary risk measures, like LDL cholesterol or c-reactive protein, to readily and reliably detect hidden coronary disease creates a gaping void for improved efforts at early detection. If your LDL cholesterol is 140 mg/dl, do you or don't you have coronary disease? If your doctor's response is "Just take a statin drug anyway" you've been done a great disservice. (If and when this sort of study gets done, its huge cost--outcome studies have to be large and last many years--it will likely be a statin study. It is unlikely it will include such Track Your Plaque strategies that help reduce heart scan scores, like vitamin D and correction of small LDL particles.)

2) Fears over overuse of hospital procedures triggered by heart scans. This is a legitimate concern--if the information provided by a heart scan is misused. Heart scans should never--NEVER--lead directly to heart catheterization, stents, bypass surgery. Heart scans do not change the indications for performing revascularization (angioplasty, stents, bypass). Just because 20% of my cardiology colleagues are more concerned with profit rather than patient welfare does not invalidate the value of the test. Just because the mechanic at the local garage gouged you by replacing a carburetor for $800 when all you need was a new spark plug does not mean that we should outlaw all auto mechanics. Abuse is the fault of the abuser, not of the tool used to exercise the abuse.


All in all, while I am not a fan of legislating behavior in healthcare, the blatant and extreme ignorance of this simple tool for uncovering hidden heart disease makes the Texas action a huge success for heart disease prevention. I hope that this success will raise awareness, not just in Texas, but in other states and cities in which similar systemic neglect is the rule.

Remember: CT heart scans are tools for prevention, not to uncover "need" for procedures. They serve as a starting point to decide whether or not an intensive program of prevention is in order, and I don't mean statin vs. no statin.

Though not a multi-million dollar statin drug study, I have NEVER seen a heart attack or "need" for procedure in any person who has stopped progression or reduced their heart scan score. A small cohort from my practice was reported:

Effect of a Combined Therapeutic Approach of Intensive Lipid Management, Omega-3 Fatty Acid Supplementation, and Increased Serum 25 (OH) Vitamin D on Coronary Calcium Scores in Asymptomatic Adults.

Davis W, Rockway S, Kwasny M.

The impact of intensive lipid management, omega-3 fatty acid, and vitamin D3 supplementation on atherosclerotic plaque was assessed through serial computed tomography coronary calcium scoring (CCS). Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol reduction with statin therapy has not been shown to reduce or slow progression of serial CCS in several recent studies, casting doubt on the usefulness of this approach for tracking atherosclerotic progression. In an open-label study, 45 male and female subjects with CCS of >/= 50 without symptoms of heart disease were treated with statin therapy, niacin, and omega-3 fatty acid supplementation to achieve low-density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglycerides /=60 mg/dL; and vitamin D3 supplementation to achieve serum levels of >/=50 ng/mL 25(OH) vitamin D, in addition to diet advice. Lipid profiles of subjects were significantly changed as follows: total cholesterol -24%, low-density lipoprotein -41%; triglycerides -42%, high-density lipoprotein +19%, and mean serum 25(OH) vitamin D levels +83%. After a mean of 18 months, 20 subjects experienced decrease in CCS with mean change of -14.5% (range 0% to -64%); 22 subjects experienced no change or slow annual rate of CCS increase of +12% (range 1%-29%). Only 3 subjects experienced annual CCS progression exceeding 29% (44%-71%). Despite wide variation in response, substantial reduction of CCS was achieved in 44% of subjects and slowed plaque growth in 49% of the subjects applying a broad treatment program.

Comments (7) -

  • billye

    6/24/2009 4:51:58 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I know how frustrated you and a few other doctors are relative to the contrariness of some of your colleges.  They hide behind the necessity for long term CYA clinical trials that never seem to take place.  I know that the road to good health and fiscal solvency of health care lies in the direction of supplementation with wild omega 3 fish oil and high dose vitamin D3 along with a low carbohydrate and high fat program.  But a study along these lines will never take place.  After all, you can't get a Patent out of such a program, therefore, pharmaceutical companies will never fund it.  
    I am a study of one for the last 9 months.  My forward thinking nephrologist,www.nephropal.blogspot.com  who follows your blog intently, put me on the above mentioned program while reassessing and stopping many of my medications.   One in particular is Staten's. I have achieved a loss of 50 pounds, my Trig/Hdl ratio is 2.73. My hbA1c diabetes type 2 score dropped from 5.9 to 4.6.  Many other health markers have greatly improved.  I tell you all of this because I can't get the notion out of my head that if the above mentioned was a national policy,  Diabetes essentially cured along with heart disease and many other metabolic syndrome diseases brought on by the western healthy diet, would not the financial difficulty plaguing universal health care be over.

    Bravo to doctors like you that step out of the box and treat patients with the goal of cure not just a prescription and see you in 3 months.  You doctors are the unsung heroes of the medical profession.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/24/2009 8:04:00 PM |

    Great results, Billye!

    And thanks for the kind feedback.

  • Roger

    6/25/2009 12:12:55 AM |

    What timing for your post!  I live in Texas and I am scheduled for my first CT heart scan...tomorrow.  I don't have any outward risk factors, except age and family history, but my doc thought it was a good idea.  I'm glad to know insurance is covering it!

  • stern

    6/25/2009 6:14:57 PM |

    you never seen hearth atach with hearth scan and no calcium even with lpa high?
    other dr had never seen hearth atack when magnesium hydroxide was taken routinly is it corelate each other meaning it digests the calcium?

  • Roger

    6/25/2009 11:31:32 PM |

    I posted yesterday that I was about to have my first CT heart scan...well, it was an interesting experience for reasons I coudn't possibly have anticipated.  Dr. Davis has commented in the past on the confusion in the media about the difference between a CT calcium score scan, and a CT angiography, the latter requiring a far higher dose of radiation.  I assumed this was a source of confusion only among patients and lay folks, but, lo and behold, I discovered today that doctors--or at least their helpers--can be just as confused.  

    Here's my story:

    After checking in, I asked the receptionist to see if she had any information on whether my medical insurance was covering the scan.  She called someone, and I heard her say over the phone, "he's here for a CT angiogram."  At that point my ears perked up.  I explained I wasn't here for a CT angiogram, only a regular CT scan.  "Well, do you want to call your doctor and talk about this?" she asked.  No, I said, I would like to ask one of their folks to verify exactly what test my doctor had ordered.  As luck would have it, the technician was walking by at that point.  "Is this a CT angiogram?" the receptionist asked.  "No, it's just a CT calcium score scan" was the reply.  But apparently the technician had been unclear herself, and had called my doctor just to verify.  In other words, the "default" procedure they were accustomed to doing at this august Houston vascular clinic was a CT angiogram.

    In fact, my appointment was even listed on their calendar as a "CT angiogram."  For all I know, my insurance will be billed for the same. Later, during the procedure, the technician acted surprised I wasn't doing the "full test."  I explained I had minimal risk factors (actually only one, an HDL of 34 a couple of years ago, which has since been raised to 50 partly as a result of taking advice from this site), but that my doctor was progressive (he is an MD for the Houston Astros) and thought it was a good idea since there is heart disease in my immediate family.  My doctor did indeed prescribe only a CT calcium score scan, but it seems to have been an order that this clinic, at least, wasn't all that used to seeing.

    So, I guess the message is: we have a lot of educating to do.  Had I not been a faithful reader of these pages, I certainly wouldn't have known what kind of test I was about to get, or what questions to ask!

    As for the heart scan itself, a piece of cake.  If you can hold your breath, you can take this test.  Just be sure it is the right one!

    Keep up the good work, Dr. Davis.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/26/2009 3:18:54 AM |

    Thanks, Roger. And thanks for telling about your near-miss with a CT coronary angiogram!

    Your comment is so helpful that I'd like to use your story as the focus for a Heart Scan Blog post.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 10:29:04 PM |

    All in all, while I am not a fan of legislating behavior in healthcare, the blatant and extreme ignorance of this simple tool for uncovering hidden heart disease makes the Texas action a huge success for heart disease prevention. I hope that this success will raise awareness, not just in Texas, but in other states and cities in which similar systemic neglect is the rule.

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Fasting with green tea

Fasting with green tea

I've been playing around with brief (18-24 hour) fasts with the use of green tea. Of the several variations on fasting, such as juice "fasts,"  I've been most impressed with the green tea experience.

While the weight loss effects of daily green tea consumption are modest, there seems to be a specific satiety effect that has now been demonstrated in multiple studies, such as this and this. In other words, green tea, through an uncertain mechanism, reduces hunger. The effect is not just due to volume, since the effect cannot be reproduced with hot water alone.

I therefore wondered whether green tea might be a useful beverage to consume during a fast, as it might take the "edge" off of hunger. While hunger during a fast in the wheat-free is far less than wheat-consuming humans, there is indeed an occasional twinge of hunger felt.

So I tried it, brewing a fresh 6-8 oz cup evert two hours or so. I brewed a pot in the morning while at home, followed by brewing single cups using my tea infuser at the office. Whenever I began to experience a hunger pang, I brewed another cup and sipped it. I was pleasantly surprised that hunger was considerably reduced. I sailed through my last 18 hours, for instance, effortlessly. The process was actually quite pleasant.

I brew loose Chinese bancha, sencha, and chunmee teas and Japanese gyokuro tea. Gyokuro is my favorite, but also the most expensive. Bancha is more affordable and I've used that most frequently.

If anyone else gives this a try, please report back your experience.

Comments (34) -

  • Phyllis

    6/1/2011 12:04:50 AM |

    I would like to know if this works with iced green tea as well. I used a method of one meal per day to loose 50+ pounds. I found it pretty easy, all in all, but have regained about 20 now and need to get back on it. I think I will give iced green tea a try! (I'm not crazy about hot green tea, but like it fine iced)

  • preserve

    6/1/2011 12:09:56 AM |

    I use tea as a method of extending eating intervals.  It works well.  I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the "upper" effect.  Ie.  uppers reduce appetite as a result of blocked sensory.

    I find fasting and sensory blocking to be counter-productive.

  • Geoffrey Levens, L.Ac.

    6/1/2011 12:33:19 AM |

    May be other effects but caffeine and it's cousin theobromine in the tea are pretty reliable appetite suppressants.  But isn't getting jacked up (even if only a little) a bit counter productive to some of the potential benefits of fasting?  The idea is to rest your physiology while catabolism is in full swing. Activating the sympathetic nervous system so you don't have to experience the sensations you don't like during the early stages of fasting does not seem to me to really promote that.

  • fredt

    6/1/2011 1:09:29 AM |

    Yes, green tea reduces my hunger; I just use Tetley in the bag. Some of the greens do not have a satiating effect on me, nor do any of the black teas. Coffee increases hunger for me. Bullion cubes or OXO packets also help. I make a 1.5 l thermos, and suck on that until its done. Some days 3 or 4 of them in a day. I think I have more hunger than most people, but I am down 55 kgs, 2 to 4 years ago and have been down for 2 years.

    The other thing that helps me is chew-able Vitamin C, a couple of 500s any time I feel hungry. It seems to raise BG, possible due to BG sparing, as it is required for far oxidation, or inside cell far transport, depending on who is explaining. Two 500's raise my BG form 4.0 to 5.3 -- OK US 72 to 95.
    I am off wheat mostly; occasionally Clam chowder, sausages, and a few crackers for low BG issues. One cracker raises BG 1.5 at 15 mins.

    Thanks for the one hour BG idea. Some of my higher protein meals were a problem, like 280 Calories of canned salmon ran my BG to 9.0 (OK 162). And my doctor says I an not diabetic but my a.m. BG sure is erratic, 4.0 to 6.2 this week.

  • Sharon

    6/1/2011 2:22:06 AM |

    Hey Phyllis, I'm with you. I have been drinking 4 cups green tea made with tea bags and then chilled and have noticed that I'm not as hungry but didn't really connect it with the tea itself. I need to lose 50 lbs and I like the idea of one meal a day.

  • Scott P.

    6/1/2011 2:24:11 AM |

    Green tea, or any tea actually, makes me a little ill on an empty stomach.  Not sure but believe it is the tannins.  I also was consuming a lot of green/white tea while fasting and I just felt really acidic and my face got red splotches, which seems to coincide with acidity.  I know the net result is supposed to be alkaline for green/white tea but that has not been my experience.  Recently, I've been adding a tablespoon of apple cider vinager to a cup of warm water.  Went a fairly easy 18 hours today but did break down and had four or five macadamia nuts around 12 hours in.

  • MAS

    6/1/2011 2:44:37 AM |

    I absolutely drink green and lightly oxidized oolongs during my fasts.   It curbs the hunger and provides focus.  Been doing it for 2.5 years.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/1/2011 2:49:43 AM |

    After millennia of human starvation, to think that we still have tons to learn about fasting used for health purposes!

    Phyllis--While I've not tried it personally, nor do I know of any formal data, I expect that iced green tea--provided it is real brewed green tea, and not the bottled variety--should work every bit as well.

  • Dianne - TPSW

    6/1/2011 1:28:40 PM |

    I am unable to drink green tea at all on an empty stomach, I will absolutely throw up if I do.  I end up with pullovertothesideoftheroadI'mgoingtopukeyesseriously!".   I actually threw up all over my suit once which was really special.  Green tea with food often makes me queasy as well.  I am allergic to oak so I think there may be a tannin connection as some heavy oak wines are problematic for me.

  • Anne

    6/1/2011 4:46:28 PM |

    I am making today a fast day. I have been drinking a mix of green and white tea but it is decaffeinated.  How often should one fast?

  • Jonathan Carey

    6/1/2011 5:58:30 PM |

    For those who get dizzy on green tea, try puerh tea.  It is a fermented green tea that is also much lower in caffeine and it taste much better than green.  It is the equivalent of drinking an aged red wine over 2 buck chuck.

  • JLL

    6/2/2011 11:27:49 AM |

    This question has been around for quite some time,  but no one seems to know the answer for certain.

    Theoretically at least, consuming antioxidants during fasting could be detrimental to autophagy (removing "junk" cells), since antioxidants might suppress the stress response from fasting. This is why some studies show antioxidants and exercise are a bad combination -- you *want* some stress to happen so that the body can adapt to it.

    Then again, there is the theory that small amounts of antioxidants actually work through the same mechanism as fasting and exercise -- hormesis. In which case fasting + antioxidants might complement each other. But that's just speculation.

    What we do know from studies is that green tea seems to increase weight loss, for example when combined with calorie restriction (and thus should apply to fasting):

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-increases-weight-loss-during.html

    And when combined with exercise:

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/03/green-tea-extract-increases-insulin.html
    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-tea-extract-enhances-abdominal.html

    And when combined with capsaicin (from chilli pepper), it reduces the feeling of hunger and thus calorie intake:

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-and-capsaicin-reduce-hunger.html

    So all in all, whatever the mechanism is, if you're fasting just for the sake of losing weight, I'd say green tea is a pretty good bet.

    - JLL

  • Paul Lee

    6/2/2011 12:21:31 PM |

    Would depend on the length of fasts, but the East Stop East method advocates two fasts per week.  My fasts are now usually shorter, as they kind of trained me to stop grazing. I usually don't bother with breakfast now. The more you eat, the more you want to eat sometimes.

  • nina

    6/2/2011 8:10:00 PM |

    I'm subscribed to your blog, but since  you changed format the posts haven't been showing up in my mail box.  I tried to re-subscribe, but am told I'm already subscribed.  How do I get back in the loop?

    Nina

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/3/2011 1:31:00 AM |

    Anyone not receiving email versions of this blog:

    I wonder if the shift over to the new platform caused a few glitches. My blog IT help is out of commission temporarily. Therefore, please sign up again at the top.

    Sorry about that.

  • Dr. Mary Taylor, PT, DPT

    6/3/2011 6:41:41 PM |

    Yes, I completely agree with you! I went 90% wheat and sugar free from November 2010 to February 2011 and lost a whopping 2 pounds. It wasn't until I went to 95% or more wheat free that I was able to start losing weight. I am now 100% wheat free and I have lost 36.2 pounds in 15 weeks. I have also been able to significantly cut my caloric intake to 500-700 calories per day (sometimes less than 500) using iced jasmine green tea. I truly believe that a diet that is lower in calories is better for health. I typically drink 6-8 glasses a day and I really enjoy it. It helps immensely with any hunger I may have and completely satisfies my sense to eat. I use any of the varieties available in tea bag (Numi, Two Leaves and a Bud, Stash, and Mighty Leaf are my favorites). I typically choose whatever's on sale. I also drink a full glass every morning prior to eating and that also seems to stimulate my colon which is a bonus as well when consuming such low caloric counts.

    On a cholesterol and BG level, my family genetics are something that should be studied. While I started my diet at 234.8# on 2/15/2011 (I'm 5'3" and 47 y/o female) my total cholesterol was 167 and my HDL was 54. My 102 y/o grandmother however, has a total cholesterol of 155 and an HDL of 115! My 76 y/o mother also has the same great results but her HDL is "only" 109. Neither of them are on any medication for cholesterol and both of them eat a diet fully based on things we berate on this blog (cookies, bread, ice cream, fried foods, etc). Neither are overweight either. I'm eager to see what my levels become when I reach my goal weight. Maybe I can surpass that HDL of 115!

  • nina

    6/3/2011 9:39:20 PM |

    I tried that before I posted and it tells me I'm already subscribed.

    Nina

  • Ron Saunders

    6/5/2011 8:06:56 AM |

    About 15 years ago I went on a fast and had only water.  The fast lasted for 10 days.  No green tea.  Just water.  After 18 hours, I completely lost any hunger.  Meanwhile I continued to cook meals for my family.  I also continued to go to work every day.

    The experience seemed wonderful.  I had been suffering badly from asthma, and all symptoms disappeared!  I could have kept going forever without eating.  However, after 10 days I started to have problems with urination.  I began excreting small, hard pellets.

    I went to the doctor, and he exploded.  "You bloody fool!" he said.  I had altered the ketone content of my blood.

    So I started eating again.  My first meal was brown rice (no salt).  It was the most beautiful meal I ever had.  Gradually I returned to normal eating.  Gradually I returned to my asthma symptoms. Gradually all meals started tasting the same.

    Did I lose weight?  I'm not sure, as my ketone problem overshadowed all else.  Did I need green tea or anything else to curb my appetite?  No, plain water (not even distilled or bottled water, but tap water) was good enough. Do I recommend fasting?  In moderation.  10 days is far too long.

  • Gabriella Kadar

    6/6/2011 3:20:06 AM |

    Is the fluoride content of any tea (Camellia sinensis) not an issue?  Data on ppm fluoride vary but they all appear to be quite high and much higher than water fluoridation levels.

  • David

    6/7/2011 8:37:20 PM |

    Try Jasmine Tea which is green tea with Jasmine flowers.  Much tastier.
    I don't like plain green tea myself, but I love Jasmine tea.

  • Renfrew

    6/8/2011 8:08:38 AM |

    There is only one problem with green tea: Pesticides.
    Most green tea is imported from India or China because it is the cheapest. On testing, a serious amount of pesticides, fungicides, microcides is found regularly. I wonder if this diminishes the health aspect of green tea.
    I used to buy organic green tea from Japan but after Fukushima that option is also out.
    Still, certified organic is the only option left, I suppose.
    Renfrew

  • nina

    6/8/2011 8:04:07 PM |

    Just tried again and I get the same message 'You're already subscribed'.  Pity that Feedburner no longer delivers to me.

    Nina

  • GaryR

    6/9/2011 9:43:01 AM |

    Started IF HFLC diet three months ago. 30 lbs lost and A1c down to
    5.1 !! (was 6.7 ) . Curiously I have been drinking green tea during the daily 18 hour fasts and hunger is a rare occurance,  hunger pains last only a few seconds. The tea helps,  body and mind trained to not think about food until
    nightly free for all. Thank you, Dr. Davis and contributors>

  • majkinetor

    6/9/2011 1:37:31 PM |

    2 Gabriella

    Flouride IS an issue with green tea. There are known cases of flourde poisoning with excessive green tea drinking - woman drinking equivalent of 20-30 green tea cups per day. This isn't something to worry about on regular usage but if you do it on IF with reduced nutrient input and more frequently to reduce appetite it can become a problem.

    White tea has lower content of fluoride as it is harvested when plant is still young. It is much more expensive but overall better then green tea due to less processing and lower fluoride content.

    Coffee works for me absolutely amazing in reducing hunger. To some people, however, it works the opposite way. My friend develops hand tremor, nervousness, and heat. The same thing she got from the green tea but not other teas. Caffeine might be problematic for some I guess, or maybe tannin. We are currently in the process of isolation of such substance.

    To reduce appetite, I found the following valuable:
    - Garlic, fresh, in tomato juice (parsley can be included to block the smell). The capsule doesn't work.
    - High intensity exercise, short bursts of 15-20 minutes will shut down digestive engine and you will not be able to eat for hour at least.
    - Marijuana restriction - its usage during fat loss might be problematic due to activation of CB1/anandamide system.
    - Periodic IF can learn body to handle prolonged food abstinence. I find that 16-24 hours fast is enough.
    - Almonds, 10-15g, are cool, especially if you tend to go crazy before sleep - its mostly fat which doesn't rise insulin during night. 2g CHO, 3.5g MUFA, 1g PUFA, 2g P is enough to make your hunger go down at least a bit and still keep your insulin down.
    - Water

    I would suggest extensive supplementation during IF - especially Vit C (at least 2g as frequent as possible), Mg, Iodine, Selenium, Idebenon.

  • Sifter

    6/10/2011 4:13:39 AM |

    Drs. Davis or Taylor (or anyone else) have you noticed any issues with accumulated caffeine intake from multiple cups of Green Tea throughout the day?

  • Cate

    6/12/2011 8:22:10 PM |

    Dr. Davis, I hadn't heard about the dangers of pesticide use relating to green tea (as mentioned by Renfew, above)...is this a viable concern?  Since green tea is loaded with antioxidants, do the benefits outweigh the risks in this case?

    I have been drinking about two to three cups of Tazo Zen Green Tea for quite awhile now (hot, as well as chilled), and enjoy it very much.  It does seem to curb cravings quite well.  I also notice increased energy without the edgy side effects that coffee sometimes causes.  Before Tazo, I was not a big fan of the taste of green tea, but the Zen blend also contains lemon verbena, spearmint leaves and lemongrass, which enhances the flavor and makes it quite delicious--providing an "aromatherapy experience" along with the tea consumption.  Smile

  • Evolutionarily

    6/21/2011 7:28:23 AM |

    Thank you for your informative comment JLL!

  • azzy

    6/27/2011 12:15:19 PM |

    me too!i keep hearing about green tea for fasting, so i took it on day 2 i think and was detoxing to fast cos i took it on a empty stomach....:/

  • Logan

    9/15/2011 7:56:34 PM |

    I drink the Tazo Zen Green Tea from Starbucks. I prefer this green tea over any others, however I have noticed extreme dizziness when I drink this tea. Has anyone experienced this? I even bought the tea bags to brew at home, I do not add any sweetener and love the taste. I occasionally drink black tea or soda and do not get the same dizzy feeling, therefore I believe it is not caffeine causing me to feel dizzy it's just green tea. Any suggestions or comments? I like the benefits of green tea but not sure it's worth the dizziness.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/16/2011 2:36:08 AM |

    Wacky. No, I'm not sure why this happens.

    Perhaps its some mixture or proportion of the theaflavins or other components. There are hundreds of green tea preparations available. It might be worth finding a happy alternative.

  • Wendy Rahilly

    11/25/2011 3:50:05 PM |

    I have been using green tea for years in weight loss.  You are right, it is not a "speedy" remedy and you will only recognize small affects it has, however, it does work.  On average, it is said that you can burn anywhere from 70 to 80 calories a day drinking green tea.  This is assuming you are drinking at least 3 to 4 cups daily.  It should be combined with water and a healthy diet and exercise.

  • Dr. H

    10/27/2012 11:38:52 AM |

    About the dizziness, I had severe vertigo in the middle of the night, i.e. at 3 am (my blood pressure was 130/100 pr 90), and the day and the night before sleeping, I consumed 4 mugs of green tea. The vertigo was associated with vomiting (which relieved the vertigo for a while). The vertigo lasted till the next day (vomited 4x). The green tea was a gift from a friend who came back from China-loose dried leaves. After that episode, I think I can't make myself to drink green tea again.

  • Jennifer

    2/20/2013 7:12:45 AM |

    I sometimes do a morning 'flush' of green tea, up to 4 freshly brewed mugfuls, with the addition of a squeeze of fresh lemon, which complements the taste and gives extra benefits, vitamin c and supporting detoxification.

    I recently saw a BBC documentary which demonstrated an optimal brew time of 7 minutes for maximum anti-oxidant release.

    Also, the cooled teabags are an excellent beauty treatment for the eye area, squeeze excess moisture and relax for a few minutes.

    Am reluctant to extend beyond midday due to stimulating effect of caffeine, how about switching to other teas that deliver other useful benefits? Ginger, fennel, liquorice come to mind.

    Blessings of health

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Look like Jimmy Stewart

Look like Jimmy Stewart


"This diet works great," Don declared. "But I think I've lost too much weight."

At 67 years old and 5 ft. 11 inches, Don began the program weighing 228 lbs (BMI 31.9). Because of high triglycerides, high blood sugar, high c-reactive protein, and excessive small LDL, I instructed Don to eliminate all wheat products from his diet, along with cornstarch and sweets. His intake of lean meats, eggs, vegetables, oils, raw nuts, etc. was unlimited.

Don now weighed 194 lbs, down 34 lbs over 6 months (BMI 27.1). Triglycerides, blood sugar, blood pressure, and well-being had improved dramatically; small LDL, however, had dropped only 30%--still room for improvement.

"My friends say I'm too skinny. They ask if I have cancer!"

I've heard this many times: Someone loses weight in a relatively short period of time and friends and family tell you you're too skinny. "It must be cancer. Nobody loses weight like that."

Unfortunately, many Americans have forgotten what normal looks like. Normal is certainly not a 190-lb, 5 ft 4 in woman, nor is it a 228 lb, 5 ft 11 inch man. But Americans have put on so much weight that the prevailing view of what constitutes "normal" weight has been revised upward. Normal is closer to what we see in old movies from the 1940s and '50s with people like Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed. That's what we are supposed to look like.

So Don actually remains mildly overweight but is judged as "too skinny," or even cancer-ridden, by friends and family.

Ignore such comments. As you lose pounds and approach a truly desirable weight, realize that you are returning to the normal state, not the vision of "normal" now held by most Americans.

Comments (23) -

  • AllenS

    1/15/2010 8:40:24 PM |

    This is funny because as a 5'11" male I'm 165lbs and considered by some to be "emaciated" even though I have 10% body fat and quite a bit of muscle. I remember 45 years ago as a kid when my 6' tall father weighed 170lbs. Nobody ever called him skinny because he pretty much looked like all of his friends. He was considered normal at that time. I remember his weight at that time because he often boasted about it seeing as how he only weighed 125 lbs when he was drafted into the Navy.

    We have indeed forgotten what normal looks like.

  • Sarah

    1/15/2010 9:07:45 PM |

    I think you're onto something with this 'standards' business. I'm down to 171 pounds (nearly 70 pounds!) since going on my diet. It hasn't been a FAST loss, but people who haven't seen me in a while are surprised and remark that I look like a 'stick'.

    Since when did 171 fall into the 'stick' range for a 5'4" woman? Maybe >30 BMI is thin for Kentucky.

    Note: I love Jimmy Stewart!

  • Jeanie Campbell

    1/15/2010 10:32:44 PM |

    Excellent post!  My question, then, is, where do we find a reliable place to find out what our desirable weight IS?  I'm not sure I trust the ones I have found on-line.  Can you recommend one?  Especially for folks over 50.  Thanks!

  • whatsonthemenu

    1/15/2010 11:44:56 PM |

    "Unfortunately, many Americans have forgotten what normal looks like. Normal is certainly not a 190-lb, 5 ft 4 in woman, nor is it a 228 lb, 5 ft 11 inch man."

    So true.  Walking through the airport terminal on a visit from Asia immediately oriented me back to the US with the long chain of fast food franchises and big, waddling passengers.  A trip to Walmart to see morbidly obese people in motorized carts is a tourist attraction for Asians.  They can't believe it until they see it.

  • jnkdaniel@hotmail.com

    1/16/2010 1:16:58 AM |

    Yes, this blog is definitely detrimental to my fat.

    For five months, I've swam, taken fish oil, cut out juice and bread from my fridge.  As a result I've lost 16 pounds, 12 beats per minute, and 3 off my blood pressure.

    I'm currently 29m 6'2 and at 184 lb, 48 bpm resting, and at 125 for blood pressure.

    It is truly scary to see how easy it is to lose weight once you know how bad certain foods are.  It is borderline addicting!

    I'm curious to see if I will hit an equilibrium or I will have to do something to stop the weight loss once I reach 175-180.

  • Anonymous

    1/16/2010 2:01:02 AM |

    This is so true, many of my friends think I'm extremely skinny, yet I'm at my optimal weight. My mom refuses to lose more weight,she says "people will say that I look old and sick"

  • Anonymous

    1/16/2010 6:26:42 AM |

    You hit the nail on the head. I too, as a 50-something year old male, was about 220 at 5'10" last year this time, and as I approached 185 mid-year, several folks asked, "Are you all right?" and "Did you intend to lose the weight?" Yet I still am not at an ideal weight for my height, and although I look slim in comparison, I still have abdominal fat that needs to go. I've also had people tell me, "You look too thin," and "Don't lose any more weight." We must recapture a sense of normal. However, during a recent visit to a Glen Ivy Spa in So. Cal. my wife and I marveled at how many grossly obese people there were sauntering around in swimsuits. We've definitely got a problem here. For me, I'd rather look like Jimmie Stewart or Jack Lalane or Art Devany, and I don't care what anyone else thinks about it!

  • pmpctek

    1/16/2010 7:20:44 AM |

    I had a friend say to me once, "you lost a lot of weight, are you sick 'r something?"

    I'm a 5' 9" 49 y.o. North American male and went from 192 lbs. to 168 lbs. in nine months.  This was a couple years ago. I lost most of it off my mid-section and face.  I have the incredible shrinking waist (now 30 inches.)

    I did this by simply eliminating grains, starches, and sugars.  I actually had to slightly increase my daily calorie intake (than when I weighed 192) because I too was concerned I might have been losing too much weight.

    When I share with family and friends why I look so lean, that it's from permanent grain, starch and sugar abstention, they always respond with "oh no, I can't do that"  or "how can you do that?"

  • Kurt

    1/16/2010 1:36:58 PM |

    This is reassuring. I've been worrying because, since I started a heart healthy diet, I've gone from 183 lbs to 167 lbs, which is less than I weighed when I was 18 years old (170).

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/16/2010 3:00:21 PM |

    Hi, Jeannie--

    There are a number of ways to determine ideal weight. BMI, though an imperfect concept, is a good starting place. Here's a BMI calculator: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

    This gives me an idea for a future post: "What is ideal weight?"

  • Aaron Blaisdell

    1/16/2010 4:20:20 PM |

    I won't even tell you what my Chinese in-laws think. Two English words my Chinese-speaking mother-in-law knows are "eat more." I always fend her of with with the retort "Che bao la."

  • Eclecbit

    1/16/2010 6:07:27 PM |

    There's also the problem of finding clothes that fit. I'm a 5'11" male and weigh 152lbs. I've got a 32" waist, but when I try on 32" waist pants they fall off of me because they're really 34" (I believe this is called vanity sizing), so I look for the 30" waist pants and guess what? There are none!

    Maybe it's because I live in the South, but 30" waist pants are pretty much non-existent, and the ones that I do find are always too short.

    My wife used to think I was too skinny, but then she remembered all her Oriental friends back in California who are as skinny as I am. For them it's considered normal.

  • Steve L.

    1/16/2010 6:26:22 PM |

    I say revel in it!  I knew from past temporary weight loss that people would start to notice after I lost 30 pounds or so.  Since I needed to lose 70 to get to ideal weight, I also knew that those comments were nothing but signs of sucess.  We truly have adapted to a new normal in our perceptions.  The shock value does diminish over time though.  Now three years out from adopting a healthy diet (currently 6'3", 190 lbs.), I got all the comments along the way, but now people have adjusted to my new look (as have I).  Once in a while though, I see someone, usually business-related, that I haven't seen for a few years, and they're shocked.  I just enjoy it, and try to recruit them over from the dark side.

    The thing that I find interesting now is that, while I was losing people were interesting in why I was losing, and several adopted the low-carb/paleo approach with great success.  But now that I have reached an ideal weight, the memory of the previous me fades, and few see me as a potential source of healthy diet information.  I think some actually think I must be a bit of a freak for having done so well, and so there's nothing useful to be learned from me by non-freaks.

  • Anne

    1/16/2010 9:36:40 PM |

    I am another who lost weight when I dropped all grains and sugars and greatly limited high carb veges and fruits. The weight just melted away. I did not need to lose much and when I hit 20 lbs, the weight loss stopped. I have been at 120-125 for many months now. I am 5' 4". I never feel hungry eating the higher fat diet. Honestly, sometimes I do miss the junky food but not enough to eat it and jeopardize my health.

  • Nick

    1/17/2010 3:38:15 AM |

    I wonder if anyone has information on cornstarch and why it places right next to wheat as a 'food' to avoid?  I have seen a great deal of convincing argument with regard to wheat, but almost none with regard to cornstarch (other than for those who may need to closely watch blood glucose levels).  

    If anyone can lead me to more information on how it affects our organism, I would great appreciate it.

  • steve

    1/17/2010 4:21:28 PM |

    Dr. Davis.  If you do a post on ideal weight, it might be helpful to include a discussion of muscle mass.  Many athletes are heavier than those of comparable ages in the general population, but have body fat levels that are extremely low.  There is a trade-off with weight loss and muscle loss, and I suppose a happy equilibrium at some leve.  Perhaps body fat level is a better gauge than absolute weight level, but hard to accuratley measure.  Thanks,

  • Claire

    1/18/2010 6:40:22 AM |

    I read an newspaper article about how parents in the UK didn't realise their children were obese. Yes, that's obese - not just overweight.

    We have lost sight of what it is to be of normal weight. I catch myself looking at people's sizes in old movies to remind myself of what "normal" should be.

  • AllenS

    1/18/2010 5:43:56 PM |

    I really don't like the BMI indicator. First, there is no differentiation between males and females or body type. Fit males who have any kind of muscle tone or who may be big-boned will invariably have a BMI greater than 25. I'm very close even though I'm only 10% body fat.

    Instead, I think that a better measure is to ignore weight altogether and get your % body fat computed. Ideally it should be 14-17% for males and 21-24% for females.

    I too have difficulty finding pants that fit. I wear a 30" waist. Its tough to find anything smaller than a 38"-40" waist which is pretty sad.

  • Anonymous

    1/18/2010 11:57:30 PM |

    Based on the posts here on HeartScan and my brothers insistence Atkin's was his preferred effective weight control solution, I started eating meat again after 10 years of being a pescatarian. I put on 12 lbs in 3 months.  OK, I am not too keen on eating slabs of meat and may have gone overboard with sausage meat / chicken wings but I hope my next blood test will show an increase in HDL as a result of the added fat and lower wheat/grains

    BTW. I stopped my 20mgs crestor and got a base line several months back (too scary !). I have taken 20mgs and 40mgs crestor with the latter leading to some muscle pain but perfect LDL (60). HDL only went up with Niacin (31 to 45 )

    What I want is no more than 20mgs crestor (which gives me LDL circa 75 and I can tolerate well) and to elevate my HDL to 60 without having to eat raw cow.

    This site is a great resource. I would like to see Dr D square off against the celeb TV Dr Oz who pushes high grain diets and low saturated fat.
    Trev

  • Apolloswabbie

    1/30/2010 10:03:43 PM |

    I think some of the response to too skinny is because folks are faced with how 'not skinny' they are looking at those who are not.

  • Anonymous

    2/8/2010 10:14:07 PM |

    I'm a caucasian male, 6'2" and I've been healthily below 160.  I have a thin body.  I don't know if it's because my bones are smaller, or what, but this is normal for me.

    And, I feel for the thin folks in the south.  When we lived in TN for a few years, I had a heck of a time finding 32" waist pants.  Now that I'm back in CA, it's much easier.

  • lockeender

    5/6/2010 4:09:25 AM |

    Jimmy Stewart was thought too skinny by Hollywood and the Army at the time.  When he was first signed to MGM they recognized that Stewart had an uncanny screen charisma and great star potential, but they considered him just so goofy looking that they didn't buy him having any male star sex appeal.  MGM wanted someone to compete with Tyrone Power, Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy and up and comers like Cary Grant (Grant would be a better example for you than Stewart).  Before MGM ever put Stewart in a movie they put him with one of the studio weight trainers, hoping to add some muscle to his physique.  The trainer had Stewart lifting weights and drinking a gallon of milk everyday.  After a month of this regimen Stewart had gained about three pounds, mostly of bloat.  MGM put him in a variety of bit parts but they figured he was basically useless to them so they loaned him out to Columbia for a pair of pictures, You Can't Take it with You and Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.  Stewart's star was made and he returned to MGM to make a slew of great films, Destry rides again, Philadelphia Story, & The shop Around the corner.  Stewart came from a very patriotic, midwestern family.  in 1940 Stewart basically quit his studio contract (after filming A Mortal Storm) and recognizing the world situation, he went to enlist in the Army with the idea of entering the Air Corps to train as a pilot.  He was rejected flat out because he did not weigh enough for the minimum standard to enlist.  And Stewart was 6' 3&3/4" he weighed next to nothing!  Since he was only a few lbs under, Stewart went back the next week, this time after waterloading himself.  he barely made it through the physical before bursting, but he was able to eek over that minimum weight standard by a single pound.  By the time Pearl Harbor hit, Stewart was a certified pilot and he spent most of the war continually flying bombing missions over Europe.

    Cary Grant on the other hand, would be a superb example. Grant began life as a circus tumbler, and he maintained his athleticism throughout his life.  His remarkable lack of aging until his final decade was due to his  eschewing alcohol and smoking in his private life, which was both very rare at the time and ironic considering the suave characters he played always drank and smoked.  He may also have been one of the oddball anti-sugar hollywood types (Gloria Swanson was one) that refused to eat anything with sugar in it.  But I'm not certain on that.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 3:43:15 PM |

    Ignore such comments. As you lose pounds and approach a truly desirable weight, realize that you are returning to the normal state, not the vision of "normal" now held by most Americans.

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It really ain't that tough
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