Hello Dr. Davis, I had no idea about either you or your book 2 1/2 years ago when I entirely removed gluten from my diet but I wanted to say I experienced all of the positive responses you spoke about. No more migraines, acid reflux, sore painting shoulder, lost 35 lbs without feeling I was dieting. I was also able to incorporate a morning Yoga program every morning and find that I'm naturally more disciplined in thought and action. I would bet that I'm effectively 20 years younger. Thanks for speaking out, it will be worth it if we can do anything about diabetes!

I heard this interview!  The "debate" was pathetic. The argument by Dr. Whiting amounted to "but what you are talking about is an Atkins diet, so your conclusions don't matter.  Nothing matters except that you are promoting an Atkins diet"  She had NO new information, and nothing to back up her asertions that you can't be right.  I was embarassed for her, but more convinced than ever that there is no sound arguement to spport eating wheat.
I gave up wheat in April of this year.  I have lost 35 pounds, and 5 1/2 inches on my waist.  I have been eating more, not less calories.  I went from being almost couch bound several days of the week from severe "fibromyalgia" symptoms, to forgetting I even had problems which left me in a fog most days. I see no reason to eat wheat.  After the fact, I am reading your book and discovering the "why" behind my miracle.  I purhcased your book so I can read it, pass it around to everyone I know, and tell them to buy one and do the same!  
Thank you, Dr. Davis!

I'm rather chuckling mentioning this, but as you probably picked up I enjoy the 90s group Nirvana.  What originally attracted me to the group was the band's song writer having a bad stomach problem, similar to mine.  I recall reading after he committed suicide, and by the note he left that was due to the stomach problem and drugs being taken to deaden the pain,  that Kurt had worked on avoiding different foods.  He did this with the hope of improving the condition.  Never did see him mention avoiding wheat.  Oranges were a concern of his as "they made his gums bleed."  There were other items he stayed away from too.

I recall even then, middle 90s, thinking that Kurt probably was a celiac, could have found some pain relief avoiding wheat, and probably would be with us today if he had done so.  Looking back I should have taken my own advice!  I had tried eating wheat free back then, found some relief, but never enough to continue eating that way I thought.  What I didn't realize was that it took more than a month to find significant gut relief.  And it probably would have helped if I had support encouraging me to continue from doctors and family.    

So, anyway!   This is the 20th anniversary year of when Nirvana's famous album came out.  And with that has come a release of digitally remastered album plus new songs.  I was laughing at the lyrics to this tune, School.  I can relate when witnessing internet debates!    

Nirvana - School
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xCgwXWEQ10

Yes, sad when the solution may have been so simple: Just avoid the food that all "official" agencies tell us to eat more of.

That's great, Arlene! 5 1/2 inches off your waist is fabulous.

I, too, was kind of embarassed for her. I don't think she knew what she was getting into!

Hi, Tracey--

I'm happy you've found this solution. However, you and I remain in the minority. There are people struggling with all manner of health problems, sometimes disabling, not getting answers from their doctors . . . and the solution can be as simple as removing all wheat. So this is a message worth repeating over and over and over again.

Dr Davis

Read your book with great interest. I am a type 2 diabetic and have taken all the steps to control levels. (exercise, weight loss, low carb, etc). My one concern is the elimination of oats. I have received excellent H1N results while consuming my favorie morning oatmeal porridge. Should I stop?

Jim

I get sad thinking about how so many people in my life have suffered.  My Mother had Parkinsons with dementia diagnosis and suffered terribly for 7 years til she died.
I suspected Diabetes because she had peripheral vascular disease and poor wound healing but the blood test always showed her sugar within normal ranges.
She craved pastries and acted like a crack addict begging for them, then would spend hours in a carb induced coma after eating them.  She died at 89 but suffered many years of her life, she tried to commit suicide before I was born and spent a year in hospital getting electric shock treatments.  She had yearly seasonal depression after that, crying for months in the winter.
My father lived to be 94 but he had 4 major heart diseases and needed 4 nitroglycerine tabs just to get dressed in AM.  He always said he felt best when he didn't eat.  Now in hindsight I know better.  I have struggled my whole life with stomach pain.  I had a small bowel biospsy 15 years ago but it was negative for celiac.  I facilitated a support group for celiac at a local hospital and lived gluten free for several years but was never one hundred percent better, now I realize because I was drinking soda and gaining weight eating all the gluten free products.  I had surgery this past December and had great difficulty recovering, symptoms of fatigue and chronic muscle pain returned to my life again.   Thanks for your book Dr. Davis, it has reminded me to go wheat free for good.  I know I feel better wheat free, dairy free and sugar free.  I gained 20 lbs after my surgery
due to inactivity from muscle pain and eating fast food carb meals.  I was caught in a vicious cycle of feeling aweful.  Fibromyalgia symptoms to the extreme, my thyroid function is low and my Vitamin D was at 14.  I have started wheat free for a week now, lost 4 lbs and feeling much better but still residual muscle pain.  I have a doctors appointment to persue thyroid treatment, I have been seeing a Natropath who gave me thyroid and adrenal gland supplements and I feel better but not 100% after 2 months of taking them.  Is it possible for thyroid function to return to normal after a time period of staying strictly wheat free?  I hate the thought of taking medicine the rest of my life.
Everyday I think of a friend, family member or celebrity that has died who might have been spared by going wheat free.  RIP...Mom, Dad, my husband Joe(non smoker lung cancer, major sugar/wheat addiction) Chris Farley, Steve Jobs (an article I read said he didn't eat animal products).Patrick Swazy. Linda McCartney (vegetarian frozen meals).  I know many of these people have had other vices like drugs and alcohol but I strongly believe that wheat is a gateway substance that can lead to addiction.  My husband drank beer every evening and ate ice cream everyday for 26 years that I knew him.  He was thin and worked hard everyday thus didn't ever see he had a problem.  He had chronic pain, allergies, skin rashes. Addicted to beer, could not stop drinking it even with cancer diagnosis and chemo treatments.  Finally quite when radiation tx damaged his throat but was too late for him.  Sorry to ramble on but just am overwhelmed with all the connections I'm suspecting.  Thanks for having a place to vent.

Dr. Davis,
Go get 'em!   Maybe you can get on the Dr. Oz show!  You and Gary Taubes can sit on the couch while Dr. Oz eats whole grain cereal with Soy Milk!

Dr. Davis--

I think someone has taken you up on your book.  Her name is Melissa McEwen.  I read her article this morning.  You might find it interesting: http://huntgatherlove.com/content/wheat-belly

Take care,
Kane

I struggled my way through this review ... a bewildering rambling rant that goes nowhere with plenty of distracting irrelevant fillers thrown in for good measure. The pervasive derisive mocking tone is also off-putting. It’s this kind of “noise” that blurs and dilutes an important message unfortunately.  One case in point (amongst a myriad) in the review is the dismissive incoherent treatment of the high glucose and high insulin impact of wheat. Personally this is the one key aspect of Dr Davies thesis that really impressed me, after seeing how one slice of wheat bread caused my blood sugar level to go through the roof. I also have plenty of anecdotal evidence (and growing) that Dr Davies is onto something.

"Attributes" which get cured......

Have you seen unintended consequences?

Maybe it has nothing to do with any modification of the plant but maybe the plant itself???

http://www.livescience.com/14194-egyptian-mummy-heart-disease.html

I've been a Registered Dietitian for 7 years and I'm appalled when I look back at my incredibly biased education.  An hour on PubMed disproves a majority of the conventional "wisdom" I was force fed, especially the ongoing demonization of saturated fat.  Its a joke. I'm glad to see more medical practitioners like yourself speaking out.  The studies showing the damaging effect of gliadin on the intestenial wall in supposedly health, non-celiac individuals is alarming to say the least. Keep it up!

The USDA has just published an evaluation that the "new varieties" of broccoli have the same vitamin and mineral content of the older ones.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2011/111013.htm

The headline and first paragraph of the web page are given below. When will they do "wheat"?

USDA Research Demonstrates New Breeds of Broccoli Remain Packed with Health Benefits
By Sharon Durham
October 13, 2011

WASHINGTON—Research performed by scientists at the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and published recently in the journal Crop Science has demonstrated that mineral levels in new varieties of broccoli have not declined since 1975, and that the broccoli contains the same levels of calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, potassium and other minerals that have made the vegetable a healthy staple of American diets for decades.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2011/111013.htm

Good for you, Daniel!

I am waiting for your and your colleagues to stage a revolt. Let me know and I will hold up the placards and yell with you!

Hi, Cynthia--

If you mean unintended consequences of wheat removal, yes: the withdrawal phenomenon. This affects somewhere around 30% of people. It is harmless, though no fun to experience.

Hi, Kane--

I found this about as interesting as saying to someone, "I don't like your face."

I've stumbled on her blog from time to time and found it interesting and insightful. I was surprised by this blatant "I don't like it because it's stupid" kind of criticism with no real substance. Maybe she had a bad day.

It is absolutely ovewhelming, isn't it, Mary, when you stop and think how many people may have had serious brushes with the wheat demon, yet nobody ever suspected?

My prediction: Wheat will prove to be among the most powerful provokers of gastrointestinal cancers. Everyone was falsely lulled by comparing whole grains to white flour that showed a relative reduction in risk. Replace something bad with something less bad, the less bad thing looks good. Flawed logic.

Well, it depends on what you mean by excellent H1N (HbA1c?).

I aim for HbA1c of 5.0% or less, a level at which glycation is not occurring faster than the normal endogenous rate.

There is a theory that the glutamates in wheat fill a crutial roll in wheat related intestinal porosity .....glutamate prepares epithelial tTg for attachment by wheat-surfafe HWP1.

Do you have an opinion?

Hi, Cynthia--

Not being a biochemist, I believe that is true, though I don't believe it is an effect unique to wheat, but shared by other foods.

Boy, I hope that didn't sound like I was defending wheat!

Dear Dr :

We have been vegans culturally - born and brought up in a Lacto-ovo Vegan society.  Recently, during routine annual blood tests, my husband has been diagnosed with more number of smaller particle sized LDL cholestrol.  He is at 95% level with very high risk.  Rest of the factors - triglycerides, HDL/LDL, overall cholestrol are all normal.  Also, sugar levels are normal.  He has been advised to take the suppressants due to high risk of particle size.  We have never tested this parameter before though.  Wheat, rice and burritos, pizzas and all the stuff you mention here are a part of our daily diet! We also eat Eggs, drink lots of full fat milk, homemade yoghurt .   I also use Coconut oil for most of the cooking which is for most part oil free!  We are worried about whether to wait and watch or start the medication.  If we wait - what is the optimal period to wait and what do we do during the wait period....

Thanks for any help and a wonderful blog - helps many people like us!

Hi, Vasu--

The solution for excessive quantities of small LDL particles is diet, not drugs. Please search "small LDL" on this blog and you will see dozens, if not more, posts on just this issue.

I had been trying for a full year to shake free of wheat, but couldn't do it because my fix was always available in the kitchen. My husband, though he has a small wheat tummy, didn't want to quit eating wheat.

Then we both came down with a gastrointestinal complaint, maybe something we ate? Nausea and loose stools and lack of appetite meant that for several days we drank lots of fluids and only ate to live. We both feel fine now, but thanks to the short period of illness during which time we COULDN'T eat wheat or sugars, we basically skipped the withdrawal period, and we no longer crave wheat.

I highly recommend quitting wheat during a gastrointestinal illness; for us it was incredibly easy.  

Dr. Davis:  After reading Wheat Belly and being wheat/glute-free for 2 months.  I've definately noticed less inflammation with my moderate osteoartritis of the knees & less abdominal bloating.  Friend, recently told me about UC Berkeley's Health Newsletter that disputes Wheat Belly.  WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEIR RESPONSE?  Here's the article:

Wheatophobia: Will Avoiding Wheat Really Improve Your Health?
  
Wheat has long been a dietary pariah for the millions of people who have jumped on the low-carb-diet bandwagon or who think they’re allergic (or at least sensitive) to the grain. Now even more people are hesitating about eating wheat after reading the claims made by Dr. William Davis, a cardiologist and author of the bestseller Wheat Belly, which is subtitled “Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health.” Not only does wheat make us fat, he says, it is addictive and causes everything from heart disease, diabetes, and obesity to arthritis, osteoporosis, cognitive problems, and cataracts. In fact, it has caused “more harm than any foreign terrorist can inflict on us.”
Wouldn’t it be great if there was a single villain behind the chronic health problems plaguing us, and if all it took to reverse them was to stop eating wheat? Don’t bet on it.

Kernels of half-truth
Here are some of Dr. Davis’s key points—and our counterpoints:

Claim: Most grains are bad, but modern wheat is the worst because it has been altered over the years via selective breeding and is now a virtual “Frankengrain.” It is loaded with amylopectin A (a starch unique to wheat), which is “worse than table sugar,” Dr. Davis says, boosting blood sugar dramatically and stimulating appetite. Modern wheat also contains other components with adverse effects, and its gluten (a protein) is more likely to trigger reactions than that in older wheat.

Fact: For well over a century, food scientists have developed hybrid varieties of wheat to be sturdier and have higher yields, better quality, and greater resistance to disease and insects. That’s true of most food crops. There’s no clinical evidence that differences between today’s wheat and older varieties have adverse effects on our health. It’s all supposition on Dr. Davis’s part, and feeds into pervasive fears of modern agricultural methods. We think this particular fear is unfounded.

Claim: Wheat is the main culprit behind the obesity epidemic.

Fact: Wheat is a staple in most parts of the world, and there’s little or no correlation between regional intakes (as a proportion of daily calories) and rates of obesity. Per capita wheat consumption in the U.S. has actually dropped since 2000, but there’s no sign that is slowing the expansion of our waistlines. In fact, a century ago Americans ate much more wheat than we do today, and very few were obese (granted, diets and lifestyles differed in many ways then). In any case, the obesity epidemic certainly can’t be attributed to any single factor.

What about Dr. Davis’s claims that when he told his patients to avoid wheat they lost weight and become healthier? As with nearly all diet books, this is only anecdotal evidence, but it’s not surprising. Had he told his patients to cut out all meat or all sugary snacks, for instance, they might have done as well or better. Nearly all diets work for a while (especially in supervised settings), usually by getting people to avoid whole categories of foods and thus tricking them into cutting calories. Keep in mind, too, that Dr. Davis basically recommends a low-carb diet, and well-designed studies have found that such diets work no better than other diets in the long term.

Claim: Wheat has played an outsized role in surging rates of diabetes, heart disease, and other chronic disorders.

Fact: There’s no evidence that wheat bears special blame for these. Blood sugar does rise after eating bread, pasta, and other wheat products. But that’s true of any foods containing carbohydrates—even those in gluten-free products—especially if the grains are refined.
The effect of carbohydrate-rich foods on blood sugar, which is ranked by the “glycemic index” (GI), depends on many factors, including how much fiber is in the food, how the food is processed and prepared, and what else is in the meal. Wheat ranks moderately high on the GI. But research looking at the effect of a high-GI diet on weight control and the risk of diabetes and heart disease has had inconsistent results.

Refined wheat, like other starchy or sugary foods, can also have adverse effects on blood cholesterol and triglycerides—for instance, increasing levels of the small, dense LDL cholesterol particles that are most damaging. To avoid this, you needn’t avoid all wheat or go on a very-low-carb diet. Just choose healthier wheat products that are minimally refined or unrefined, and don’t go overboard.

Claim: Whole wheat isn’t much better than refined wheat, so overweight people and those with chronic diseases should avoid it as well.

Fact: Many studies have linked higher intakes of whole grains (including whole wheat) with a reduced risk of diabetes, heart disease, and stroke, as well as improvements in blood cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar control. Other studies have found that whole wheat can help people control their weight and/or lose body fat, especially when they eat it in place of refined-wheat products. Thus, the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association, and most nutrition experts recommend foods made from 100% whole grains.

BOTTOM LINE: Unless you have celiac disease or another type of gluten intolerance or sensitivity (see box above), there’s no reason to avoid wheat. No doubt many Americans eat too much refined wheat, usually in the form of cakes, cookies, pizza, and other foods loaded with added sugar and/or fat (which can double or triple the calorie count), as well as lots of sodium. Cutting down on such wheat products can help people lose weight and improve their overall diet, provided they substitute lower-calorie foods. But 100% whole-wheat and other whole-grain products can fit well into a healthy diet, as can many refined-wheat dishes that include nutritious ingredients, such as pasta with vegetables. As with so many dietary matters, moderation is the key.



Gluten for punishment
There’s one very good reason to avoid wheat: if you are allergic to gluten because of celiac disease, also known as gluten-sensitive enteropathy or nontropical sprue. Gluten is a protein in wheat that makes dough elastic and smooth; it’s also in rye, barley, and certain other grains.

In people with this genetic disorder, gluten provokes an autoimmune response that damages the small intestine and may cause symptoms such as diarrhea, bloating, cramps, abdominal pain, weight loss, fatigue, and loss of appetite. Celiac disease has become more common in the past 50 years for largely unknown reasons. It’s now estimated that about 1 in 100 people in the U.S. and Canada have it. If you have a parent or sibling with the disease, your risk rises to 1 in 22; having an aunt, uncle, or grandparent with it increases your risk to 1 in 39.

Celiac disease can begin at any age and occurs more often in people of European descent and in women. Many people with it go undiagnosed or are misdiagnosed, however, because there may be no gastrointestinal symptoms—and when there are symptoms, they’re often nonspecific (that is, they could be caused by many disorders). Celiac disease causes malabsorption of key nutrients, notably calcium and iron, so it can lead to osteoporosis, anemia, and other serious health problems. People with it are also more likely to have other autoimmune disorders, such as psoriasis, lupus, Crohn’s disease, and certain types of thyroid disease.

Confusing matters, about 6 percent of Americans are thought to be gluten-sensitive but don’t have celiac disease, according to the Center for Celiac Research at the University of Maryland. There’s much debate about this condition, sometimes called “nonceliac gluten sensitivity,” and about how prevalent it is. Because so many people now believe they are sensitive to gluten, rightly or wrongly, “gluten-free” has become one of the fastest growing sectors of the food industry.

Before giving up gluten, get tested
If you have chronic indigestion or other symptoms suggestive of gluten sensitivity, consult your doctor and get tested for celiac disease before going on a gluten-free diet. (Long-term avoidance of gluten can interfere with the diagnostic tests for celiac disease.) A positive result on the blood test should be followed by a biopsy of the small intestine to confirm the diagnosis. If celiac disease is ruled out and you continue to have problems, you can be tested for nonceliac gluten sensitivity via an “elimination and provocation” diet.

If you have a family member with celiac disease, you should be tested even if you have no symptoms, since diagnosing and treating the disease can help prevent intestinal damage and serious complications. Many gastroenterologists advise initially having a simple genetic test for predisposition to celiac disease.

Few people are properly diagnosed for gluten problems, however, according to a paper in the Annals of Internal Medicine earlier this year, which warned that many are undoubtedly going on highly restrictive diets unnecessarily.

It’s best to consult an experienced registered dietitian if you have celiac disease. You can—and should—eat other healthy grains, including corn, rice, oats, buckwheat, quinoa, and amaranth. Look for “certified gluten-free” on labels, since products can be cross-contaminated with gluten. Keep in mind, most “gluten-free” packaged products are made from refined flour (albeit gluten-free flour) and are not particularly nutritious, and many are junk food.

For more information, you can contact the Celiac Disease Foundation or the Celiac Sprue Association.
Issue: August 2012

Whoever wrote this clearly did not read the book with an open mind. ALL the questions are addressed in the book.

This is the stuff that the dietitians are arguing, a "rebuttal" based on conventional notions of wheat.

Rather that have to pick each argument apart to debate with people who clearly do not want to change their opinions, please just read the book.

I don't know if you're right or wrong (about wheat being worse than other starch sources), but am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, remove it, and see what happens.
P.S. Listened to the debate between you and Timothy Caulfield. What an embarrassing hack he was.

The lowest mortality is correlated with HbA1c between 5.0 and 5.4%.

Effective strength D3 is not available over the counter in the UK. UK readers have to buy from the USA.
http://tinyurl.com/8znjue
Iherb do Now foods 5000iu D3 in olive oil capsules very cheap.
Orders £18 or over are not only subject to Customs duty but our Post Office charges £8 extra to collect the tax.
Using Iherb $5 discount code such as WAB666 reduces the price of 360 to under the tax threshold. Leaving the daily cost including P&P to 5.25p daily

http://tinyurl.com/ch5262
May I also draw readers attention to this half hour video from Cedric Garland about Vitamin D status and cancer incidence and progression.
You will note Garland suggests 60ng 150nmol/l for lowest cancer incidence.

Is the vitamin D from cod liver oil effective?

Slightly off topic, but I just read that congress is going to vote on a bill to cut medicare coverage of vitamin D levels, so now we will have to rely on private insurance, or simply pay ourselves.

Jeanne shepard

By the way, I prefer not to be "anonymous" but the Google Blogger doesn't remember my password, and won't let me select a new one.

Some of the vitamin D experts warn against using cod liver oil. http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-december.shtml

One concern is too much vitamin A if you took enough of the cod liver oil to get the D you need. Another is that vitamin A and D compete with each other.

fritz
Read what Dr Cannell says about Cod liver oil here
http://tinyurl.com/dh9b6k

A typical 5ml tsp of CLO contains roughly 400iu. Most people require on average 5000iu/daily so the amount from CLO is insufficient.

Jeanne
Twice yearly $30, 25(OH)D blood spot tests, available by post from this source
www.grassrootshealth.org/daction/index.php

iHerb.com also has Country Life Vitamin D3 2500 IU (200 softgels).

Thanks for answering the questions about tablets so quickly, by the way.

For the benefit of UK readers, I'd like to second TedHutchinson's informative comment. I use the same product from the same supplier

It's worth noting that postage and packing cost from the US does not contribute to the value of the order for the purposes of taxes and extortionate 'fees'.

I don't understand why taking a vitamin D3 capsule will not raise level of 25(OH)D when consuming it with fat or meal containing fat. Should get the same results...

First, let me say that I really love your blog.  I learn so much every time I come here.

I do have a question for you.  What do you make of this site:

http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/

On the surface, she appears to be a competent scientist, but she blames everything (and I do mean everything from macular degeneration to brain lesions) on too much Vitamin D and claims that the road to universal health should begin with driving one's Vitaman D levels to below 20 ng/mL.  A friend of mine just sent this to me in a panic.  Please let us know what you think.

Thanks so much!
Isabella

The Costco effect.  I had been wondering why so many people use the tablet form.  Just noticed yesterday that tablet is the form of Vitamin D that Costco carries.

All of the vitamin D capsules that I checked in Whole Foods yesterday were composed of some kind of frankenfood oil in them, most notably soybean oil.  Can anyone recommend any brands that use something better?  

(I have the same problem with my vitamin E complex, but I'm not convinced that I should be taking that anyway -- although it does seem to help the inevitable dry skin in winter here in Colorado.)

BTW, my husband and I got our levels tested thanks to your recommendations.  Mine were excellent (probably thanks to many months of good supplementation), but his need some work (despite some more moderate supplementation).  Thanks for the info!

Re: the http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind article...

Anonymous,

Dr. Davis wrote about this issue (more or less) last year: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/marshall-protocol-and-other-fairy-tales.html

David

@ Diana Hsieh
Don't know if this is available where you are (I'm in Australia) but I use this brand of D3 for this very reason. It's in fish oil, of reasonable potency.

THOMPSON'S Vitamin D (1000mg) with Fish Oil (500mg) - 60 gelatin-free caps

http://www.thompsons.co.nz/afa.asp?idWebPage=8403&ID=163&SID=663632930&Type=Products

Product made in New Zealand. Hope this helps.

Diana,

Our family likes Carlson Vit D products.  They are definitely absorbable, because the whole family went from the low end fo the reference range to around 70-86 ng/ml in the past few months).

Mostly we use Solar D Gems in the 2000 or 4000iU capsules.  There is a bit of Norwegian CLO & EPA?DHA in them, and lemon flavor.  They chew up easily, too, but can also be swallowed.

The non-chewable capsules are much tinier and are made with sunflower oil, but even that is a very tiny amount in this very small capsule.

The Carlson D drops in the 2000iU/drop dose is made with coconut oil (though it is fractionated, to keep it liquid).  But it's only a drop.

I find very good prices at www.vitaminshoppe,com, usually for about 2-4 ¢ per each 1000iU (that's how I make price comparisons).  Plus Vitamin Shoppe has a frequent buyer program so purchases earn points toward fairly generous coupons (such as $5 off a $15+ purchase), and shipping is reasonable (sometimes free).  

Or I buy Carlson Vit D3 at the local store when they are on sale (stores that sell a lot of Carlson product often pass along "mfg discounts" or "special buys").

Isabella
Mark London  MRL@PSFC.MIT.EDU has provided a detailed scientific rebuttal of the Marshall Protocol here
http://tinyurl.com/cfod57
Is the MP Treatment for Sarcoidosis Helpful for Other Chronic Diseases?

MP’s Vitamin D Theories Are Not Supported by Lab Studies.
Updated July 2, 2008

Dr Davis has previously addressed this issue in the blog entitled
The Marshall Protocol and other fairy tales

Diana Hsieh
The capsules I suggested are dissolved in olive oil.
http://tinyurl.com/abbagz
Carlson 2000iu sunflower oil $12.22
http://tinyurl.com/abbagz
Carlson also do Solar Gems in Cod liver oil.
http://tinyurl.com/bclzom

Diana Hsieh,

I believe the NOW foods brand D3 formulations are suspended in olive oil.

Carlson's Vitamin D3, 2,000 IU is suspended in sunflower oil.

That being said, most of these D3 capsules are quite tiny, so I am not sure that they contain a huge amount of oil, unless you are taking more than 10,000 IU's daily (i.e., 5 capsules).

As to sources, iHerb is the best and most user friendly, and I won't even give you my $5. discount code, as previous poster did.  You can sign up for your own discount number at the iHerb website.

Hope that helps!

Diana,

I'm currently using Carlson 2000IU gelcaps which contain sunflower oil (omega-6, even if small quantities) and a few other more benign ingredients.

When these are exhausted I'm switching to Carlson D-drops in which D3 is dissolved into medium chain triglycerides (MCT).

Thanks everyone for the input.  I feel much better now and am off to take my gel-capped Vitamin D3.

All my best,
Isabella

When researching Carlson Solar Gems earlier I mentioned they contain Cod liver oil but no Vitamin A Content is listed on the Carlson's website.
So I emailed Carlson's to confirm the vitamin a content. They replied
total Vitamin A is below 2% of the daily value which is the threshold above which the FDA requires you to list the Vitamin A content.
As adult RDA for vitamin A is 700~900iu, below 2% of that is below 14~18iu. So there is really is no reason to avoid Solar Gems because of their potential Vitamin A content.

Dr. Davis,

Appreciate your elaborating the tablets vs. capsules point and thank you for continuing to take the time to write such informative posts!

"Heart disease was once thought to be less of a problem for women than for men. Research now indicates that heart disease is the No. 1 cause of death among women in the US, while confirming that women with an intact uterus have a lower incidence of heart disease because they benefit from the uterine advantage." Visit http://www.truthout.org/021609R for the full article.

Dr. Davis,
Are gelcaps with dried powdered form of vitamin d3 as effective as oil filled gelcaps?

Dr. Davis, "Americans Low on Vitamin D" - http://www.webmd.com/news/20090325/americans-low-on-vitamin-d

I've had great results from powdered gelcap from D-Max (5000 IU) from Nature's health Supply, but a bit less from NOW olive oil gelcaps (5000 IU). Just a hunch, because I have an autoimmune disease and I'm trying to work out my symptoms. So no 25(OH)D test here.

I'll try those Carlson's next.

Great blog by the way!

I just ordered some D3 to send to my 81 yo MIL and 46 yo SIL in London.  I'm quite sure they are going to very deficient (they just ordered the www.grassrootshealth.net home testing kit as it's a pain to get NHS to agree to test).  

I found Bio-Tech D3-5 (5000iU cholecalciferol capsules  - powder in a tiny gelatin capsule) offered on Drs. Eades's Protein Power website at a great price, 100 qty for $8.  Shipping via UPS was $6.45 to my location for up to 10 bottles.  That makes the price per 1000iu incredibly low.  I bought a year's supply (8 bottles) to mail to my in-laws, plus two bottles for me.  Note I was very surprised at the small size of the box, but it did contain the 10 bottles I ordered, but the capsules and bottles are small and light, which is nice when ordering so much at once and mailing it again.  Fast delivery, even with UPS ground service.

I just had another 25 (OH)D test drawn last week; I'll get the results tomorrow at my endo appt for my thyroid.  I was averaging 5000iU/day  supplementation with various Carlson D3 products, based on previous 25 (OH)D test results and supplementation levels.  So I'll switch to the Eades' Bio-Tech formula now and see how my 25 (OH)D is in late summer/early fall.

Anna,

I'd be very interested to hear a follow up from you when you retest after being on the Bio-Tech D3 for awhile. I'm of the mind that D3 in softgel form is more absorbable and hence more efficacious for raising and maintaining 25(OH)D levels, but I see many of the "big guns" (e.g. Cannell, Eades, etc.)promoting/selling the powdered Bio-Tech formula. Perhaps you could report back here with your results?

David

Dave,
Sure.  I'll be retesting  thru my endo in 6 mo.  But I might do a mail-in test via www.grassrootshealth.net before that.  

I'm guessing a gelatin capsule filled with a powder (might be an oily powder,too) is more absorbable than a hard tablet form.

Btw, I just got my lab result for 25(oh)d---a nice 68ng/mL (after months of 5000iU D3 carlson oil gelcaps and/or oil drops .  Also was an easier winter than i've had in years, which I think might be due to more sunlight and Vit D.

Thanks, Anna. 68 ng/ml-- Good for you! You know, all my life, I've had tough winters. I would always get very sluggish and depressed. I mean I would get really, really down. But ever since I've started the vitamin D, the winter blues are a thing of the past. This alone is probably the most noticeable effect I've ever had from taking any supplement. It's a very dramatic and welcomed change.

I will read from time to time for that.

http://allnutri.com/bid970/now+foods.aspx

That means D3 in Calcium tablets like Citrical is probably poorly absorbed  too, am I correct?

Yep.

I found this site using [url=http://google.com]google.com[/url] And i want to thank you for your work. You have done really very good site. Great work, great site! Thank you!

Sorry for offtopic

yoo... amazing thread!

GNC has Vit D drops.....do you feel this is good?

Oil-filled gelcaps are no more expensive than tablets (or perhaps a dollar more). Health food store employees and pharmacists don't know this. I have had many patients come to the office claiming they changed to tablets because that's all their health food store or pharmacy carried and the person behind the counter assured them it was the same. Blood level of vitamin D to confirm: right back down to the starting level or near it--little or no absorption.

this is somewhat surprising, however, not completely shocking. Carbs are sugars, and I've known for quite some time that Oats are loaded with carbs. I never thought of the effects of the oatmeal though, I've always seen it as a positive and healthy way to start off the day...

I guess that view has changed now.. I'll be consuming a lot less oatmeal.

Uh-oh.

Does this also include whole unprocessed (cooked) oats?

Those, along with wild rice are the only grains our cardiologist said are okay, and only so long as they remain whole, unprocessed grains.

Darn.

madcook

Oatmeal- what a pickle it's gotten itself into.
Healthy, healthy oatmeal is all you read about until one checks their blood sugar after eating it. Mine went from 82-179 in 45 minutes.
No honey or raisins or anything added- the same spike.
For me, eating oatmeal is like having an IV drip of straight sugar into my blood stream.

Oatmeal has now been relegated to  food for my mealworms who in turn are snacks for my bearded dragon.

Darn, I like oatmeal!!

Are you saying that butter triggers more insulin than cheese?  Can't be.

Thanks! This one has been very hard to discuss since EVERYONE thinks oatmeal is VERY healthy! Great post

??? I eat 1/3 cup (add water) of Oatbran for breakfast everyday with berries - 1 and 2 hour blood sugars are about 100. ( or a serum level of 89)  That is a carb load of 16 for the oat-bran - add the berries and it is 20. Not a lot for the big meal of the day for a large guy.

I'm not sure everyone has the same problem - it is a matter of amount, not 'just' the type of food.  I am much more careful to eliminate fructose containing sugars.

Thank you!  Appreciate the information.  Now I must email my CDE and ask if she is going to insist that her charges continue to eat it.

Bob

You lump all "oatmeal" into a single category.  Is there a difference between instant oats vs. rolled oats vs. steel cut oats?

I sometimes cook steel cut oats overnight, and then add some whole raw milk at the end.  I eat it with walnuts and cinnamon.  I would assume that the fats and cinnamon decrease the blood sugar spike?  Is this the case?  I would appreciate your comments

Do butter or cream generally trigger an insulin response?

In addition to cheese, shouldn't heavy cream not raise blood glucose?

Re:  cheese being the one dairy product that doesn't excessively trigger insulin. Doesn't heavy (whipping) cream qualify as another?  It doesn't raise my blood sugar--even when consumed at breakfast, the time of day when I'm most carb-sensitive.

Dr. Davis,

I am not a cereal eater of any sort, and never eat oatmeal or oat bran.

A typical breakfast for me might consist of 2 whole pastured eggs + vegetables and some coconut milk with around a 1/2 teaspoon of cinnamon mixed into it. Would 1 serving of oatmeal added to something like that be as likely to trigger higher readings (relative to each of the states you mentioned)?

NOTE: I'd try it out and test with a glucometer, but I dislike the taste of oatmeal and oat bran, so it makes that avenue a moot point.


Roy Davis

Cholesterol intake from egg yolk is atherogenic in fowls (1), rabbits (2), swines (an omnivore like man) (3) and monkeys (3) as you can read in the following articles:

(1) "The pathology of experimental atherosclerosis in egg-fed fowls".

(2) "EXPERIMENTAL ATHEROSCLEROSIS AND BLOOD PRESSURE IN THE RABBIT"

(3) "Comparison of the Effect of Egg Yolk or Butter on the Development of Atherosclerosis in Swine".

I found that oat bran gives me acid reflux. Now I use it to exfoliate.

Thanks for this information, I am glad to see you are not recommending oat bran anymore.  Recently I tried 2 tablespoons of oat bran a day for 4 days for ldl cholesterol reduction.  As a result I gained 4 pounds and experienced a resurgence in my joint pain (and cravings) which had been previously greatly reduced by going grain free.  It took about 4 weeks to loose that 4 pounds.  No more 'healthy' oats for me!  Randy.

Dr. Davis,

Do buckwheat and quinoa have the same blood sugar-raising effect?

Thank you,

David

If you are concerned about carbohydrate sensitivity, you must--MUST!--check blood sugars after a meal.

Then you will know for a fact what your response is.

The worst: instant oatmeal.

Eat oatmeal? I can't even look at a box of oatmeal without my blood sugar going ballistic!

Mike

I have been eating quick oats for breakfast every day for fifteen years, lately adding cinnamon, flaxseed meal, and blueberries. Is it enough time to make me a diabetic? I typically walk for 25 min one hour after breakfast to catch the train, so it is difficult for me to check my blood sugar during this time. Is oat meal consumption harmful even in this combination with physical activity?

What about cream of wheat? is it any better for you than the oatmeal?

I think your comment that oatmeal will raise sugars in non-diabetic people to over 150 is a little exaggerated. I had a fasting sugar of around 100 and 1 hour after one serving eating Old Fashioned Quaker Oats my blood glucose got to 126. While this is not an ideal glucose level it is nowhere near the 150 you are referring to. I had some other members (non-diabetic) of my family try the same experiment and none of them came close to 150.

I switched to a non-wheat diet, moderate carb diet at the beginning of the year. For breakfast I stopped eating sugar-packed cereals and ate Old Fashioned Quaker Oats instead. My triglycerides dropped like a rock from almost 200 to around 60. My HDL went from 35 to about 60.

I do agree however that people who are insulin resistant may need to avoid oatmeal as it does contain a plenty of carbs but comparing oatmeal to candy bars in the context of blood glucose response is really stretching things.

Tons of carbs = raised blood sugar. I meet a lot of people eating oatmeal believing it is healthy. I am from Sweden and we have a long, long tradition of oatmeal.

The grain industry has been sponsoring Swedish athletes for a very long time.

Apparently, kids who get into sports get a brochure, from sponsored by one of the biggest grain producers in Sweden, loaded with propaganda about how athletes MUST eat a lot of carbohydrates.

Fortunately there are more and more athletes breaking away from traditional diets. One of the main reasons being, that top athletes get sick a lot. Björn Ferry, who won a gold in Vancouver, is on a low carb diet. No oatmeal whatsoever for him.

I've been testing my blood sugar after meals and what I find is a little steel cut oats, a little wild rice, a little beer doesn't raise my blood.  A lot of any of these, on the other hand, does. It seems more related to quantity than to which carb.

I have heard, "...eat fats with your carbs..." to keep one's insulin livels from spiking so much.  I choose butter or cream from grass fed cows.
Have not checked insulin levels after fat or no-fat old fashioned oatmeal to see the differences.
It's worth testing on myself as my fasting glucose levels are in the low range.

Now they even have "organic" oat meal to make it super healthy! The madness never ends.

My 4.5% butterfat whole, unprocessed jersey milk does not cause my blood sugar to spike, neither does butter, yogurt, cream or cheese made from it. But I am non-diabetic. Measuring blood sugar after drinking pasteurized store bought milk (~3.2% butterfat) does raise it about 10 more units (110) instead of 100. WAPF says the heating makes lactose digest quicker.

I didn't hear anything that oat bran can't bring down LDL, only that one has to be mindful of the BG issues concerning it.

I'm mindful as I'm IGT, but don't seem to have issues with oat bran and my 1h ppg readings.  They've never been above 6mmol/L, and more than likely be in the mid 5s like anything else I've tested with the expection of food containing starch.

For the record, I use water and don't load it with fruit.

Peter--

Excellent point.

Portion size is indeed a crucial factor: The greater the quantity of carbohydrate, the greater the impact on blood sugar.

Therefore, many of us can get away with small quantities of oatmeal, cream of wheat, or other carbohydrate (at least from a blood sugar standpoint). Most of us cannot deal with any more than a little. Some cannot deal with any at all.

Just recommended your Blog to my brothers.  Gave them the comparison of "low carb diet verses the whole grain inflammatory diet."    In addition to the Blood Sugar problems, grains tend to be loaded with  inflammatory oils and for some allergic, too!   Chronic inflammation and Chronic disease go hand in hand.  

What do you think of the Curry diet, Tumeric is a COX-2 inhibitor;  thought to reduce prostate cancer in India to 10% compared to USA.

My one hour postprandial blood glucose, tested today after eating 1/2 cup (dry) oatmeal with 2 TBS flax seed meal, 1 TBS raisins, and 1/2 tsp maple syrup: 114 mg/dl,

My diabetic mother's FBG was finally down to 126 yesterday. Then she had some peas and carrots last night, then some oatmeal and raisins this morning. Her blood sugar a few hours after eating it: over 200. Her reason for eating the oatmeal: "My nurse told me I could have a little."

I found that a bowl of oatmeal, with cream and two boiled eggs was enough to shoot my blood sugar from fasting 110 to 160+.  Now, I clearly have issues since my fasting is a bit high, but my conclusion for myself was, fat and protein didn't stop the carbs.  I do fine with a small bowl of full fat strained yogurt and walnuts though.  And eggs, veggies, or a small steak...

I've been wondering...is bacon REALLY bad for you (like most people say), or is it okay? I've been eating a relatively low-carb breakfast of poached eggs and bacon, and a small serving of fruit, but I'm concerned that the bacon is a bad choice (although I love it, and it leaves me satiated until lunch). Any insight?

The effects of carbohydrates on blood sugar levels is represented by the glycemic index. The glycemic index is determined by feeding various people a certain food and measuring their blood sugar level multiple times over a period of several hours.

Oatmeal has a fairly low glycemic index (around 50 I think), which means its effect on the blood sugar level of a regular person is low.

The glycemic load of the whole meal containing oats can be even lowered by mixing it with some other very low GI food such as nuts.
A half a cup of oatmeal with 1 oz of walnuts cannot be much worse than fried eggs and bacon everyday, can it?

Boris

Okay, y'all have prodded me to check my blood sugar.  Despite being a diagnosed type 2 diabetic for over 20 years, I've relied on the A1C test and avoiding processed foods.

Today, fasting level = 90

After a huge bowl of old fashion slow cook oatmeal (1 cup dry uncooked), plus raisins and MCT oil, I tested 126 immediately after eating.

20 minutes postprandial = 120 (after 15 minute walk)

1 hr postprandial = 136

2 hr postprandial = 71 (after another 15 min walk)

Normally I eat oats/groats but I'm visiting my mom now, and don't have access to groats.  In my opinion, oats/groats is metabolized more slowly and is more nutritious.

I have a lot of Scottish blood and the Scots have thrived on oats for millenia.

This is so ABSOLUTELY true and helpful!!!  I have been eating a big bowl of quick oats (with only water) for about a year and regularly measuring blood sugar one hour later.  The results were always confusingly amazing.  My blood sugar wold reach from 90's (fasting) to 180 easily!  I have asked two internists but no help.  This article is exactly what I have been searching for.  Great analysis!  NO MORE OATS for me.

The unasked question is, what constitutes 'repetitive' consumption of oatmeal? Breakfast every day? Twice a week? Or what?

If you were to soak the oats in an acidic medium overnight (such as kefir, yogurt, apple cider vinegar, whey, or lemon juice), and then eat it with real, raw milk and a bit of real maple syrup, it would be much healthier for you. But I wouldn't recommend eating it every day because this habit of eating grains too often, even when properly prepared can still lead to health issues. Grains that are not traditionally prepared as our ancestors did lead to many problems like obesity, heart disease, cavities,digestive disorders, candida overgrowth, Crohn's Disease, Leaky Gut, hiatal hernia, diabetes, and much more.

Oatmeal is the best. Cool blog! This one is not good!

Great idea to check your blood sugar after you eat.  Then either way, good or bad, you'll know.  And you'll be able to make your decision based on the facts.  Check out my take on "What's for Breakfast" at http://yourhealthisonyourplate.com  Roxanne Sukol MD

What a fantastic post! It's about time someone started cracking down on so-called "good carbs." My husband is a cardiologist too, has been preaching this for years and getting the very same "Huh?" reactions. The credo is our house is: CARBS & SUGAR ARE THE SAME THING, because all carbs metabolize into sugar. "Good" ones may take 30 minutes longer, but they'll still become sugar faster than your body wants it. Try to stick to just low-sugar fruits and veggies...and thank you, doctor, for helping to clear the blizzard of misinformation out there. Here's our non-profit site if you're wondering who wrote this: http://tinyurl.com/b8vjja

P.S. Many diabetes "educators" are dreadfully behind, giving out in some cases what amounts to harmful information, especially where diabetics are concerned.

Yikes!  This has certainly been very surprising.  Oatmeal has always been thought of as a healthy breakfast.  Little did we know!  

Thank you so much for sharing this.  I will forward this post to my fellow oatmeal-loving friends.

This blog usually delivers scientifically sound nutritional information. This particular blog publication is the exception. It gives information without a single reference. It is daunting to write that oats will make a spike in your blood levels without any further information. Oat porridge is known to lower the glycemic response to a load of carbohydrates. You are missing important information about the fiber content. It IS a good source of fiber, both soluble (beta-glucans) and insoluble when eat as a whole. Additionally, is proven to lower serum LDL levels and increase HDL. Of course if you use a oat product full of sugars or in the wrong presentation/processing the history is quite different.
Much more can be found if you type Oats and glycemic index at Pubmed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

I remember when I thought eating oatmeal was good for me.  I even made granola and ate that frequently.  The only thing that happened to me was that I gained a lot of weight!  

I have not had grains in about a year, unless I am on vacation and have no other options.  I ate steel cut oats this summer on vacation.  Yes, they were satisfying at the time but I also came home with weight gain and a viral lung infection. Not saying that was because of my grain intake, just sayin....

I sed to eat lots of oatmeal and oat bran, and my doctor said I was anemic.  Then I read that oat bran prevents iron absorbtion, so I quit, and the anemia went away.  Maybe coincidence, maybe not...

I'm extremely grateful for this information. For years I have conscientiously followed the type of diet that is widely promoted as being healthy, including whole grain oatmeal. My cholesterol numbers have been stellar, aside from the total sometimes being below the reference range. My fasting glucose has been normal. I was shocked to learn in follow-up after a severe foot infection that my peripheral arteriosclerotic situation is not so stellar. In view of the information on your blog I bought a glucose monitor. My blood sugar an hour after a large bowl of slow-cooked oatmeal with no fruit, milk, sugar, or other additions = 150!

Oat Bran, I have read that Oat Bran is good for you as it is high in fiber and helps to clear fats from the blood.  I am not sure about the refinement as to whether fine ground or medium ground is best?  I have read other medical materials that support using Oat Bran for cereal, muffins, or even as bread crumbs for baking.  This can be confusing as I had once believed Oat Meal was good for you and a heart healthy diet.  Does OAT BRAN fall into the same catagory as OAT MEAL?

Perhaps it is the skim milk that is the culprit here?With cream or whole milk and some coconut oil perhaps it's not so bad?

Skim milk is evil.

hi……………………
You are a Great while writing in the blogs it is awesome I liked it too much good and informative thanks for the sharing.

The 'healthy breakfast myth'. Humans don't need any breakfast or lunch if they eat a proper diet. The body has ample fat stores to provide our energy for the day. Most hunter-gathers don't eat any breakfast and lunch is rarely anything other than a small snack. They start eating mid-afternoon and nibble away for most of the evening.

The only reason westerners need breakfast or lunch is because they are carbohydrate addicts. If you switch to a VLC (<20g/day) diet you won't get hungry before 4pm once you adapt. In fact once adapted to a VLC diet you can effortlessly go 2-3 days without food and not have any problems.

If you are like most people, you too will show high blood sugars after oatmeal. It's easy to find out . . . check your postprandial blood sugar.

We eat oatmeal on occasion and have no problem with high blood glucose probably because we add enough butter, cheese and cream so that the calories from dairy fat far exceeds the calories from the oatmeal. And we have no insulin problem from consuming a lot of butter.

We are not concerned about cholesterol levels. The only reason we eat oatmeal is because it seems to help regularity.

Jack C.

I have oats without dried fruits or any fruit even.But I do add a little of skimmed milk and also add a little bit of sugar.I have no problem as far as sugar or heart is concerned.

wow im glad im reading this post thanks for the info

Dr. Davis:

What are your thoughts on brown rice? Is this beter than oats or wheat? I know white rice has high glycemic index.

Raj

Personally, oats cause a spike up 170. My fasting is 90. Cheerios spikes as well.

How does the article justify going from heart healthy benefits to affects of oatmeal for diabetics?
Just because a food has to be eaten with caution by diabetics does not mean it is not beneficial as it has been determined.
It is the same as with any food: Read The Label. Yes, oatmeal is a grain, and therefore has carbohydrates (an essential food). So, add protein if you have blood sugar issues or eat it less often, or in smaller quantities!
Any whole grain will have the same issues. And why would a diabetic add sugars or fruits to a carb food??? Come on!
For heart benefits, lowering harmful cholesterol, it is one of the whole grains that is important to have in your diet. Profiling it as a diabetic issue is just not fair.

Just got my glucose monitor and was testing it out:

morning fasting: 75
immediately after salmon and salad: 78
1 hr after salmon and salad: 92
2 hr after salmon and salad: 81
5 hr after salmon and salad: 88
immediately after 2 cups dry oats mixed with cinnamon, preceded by a medium sized canteloupe (almost 200 grams of carbs): 102
50 minutes after the carb feast: 144 !!!
75 minutes after the carb feast: 111

I'll do another experiment tomorrow without the canteloupe (which was on sale and I couldn't resist) and maybe only 1.5 cups of dry oats instead of 2 cups.

ive been enjoying those instant packets of oatmeal every morning, like the apple and cinnamon, banana bread, and fruit and cream flavors, but I'm not sure if they're that great for you.. even if they are only 130 calories. what are your thoughts? is healthy?

Hi Doctor Davis,
Can't disagree that oatmeal does indeed contain a fair amount of (complex) carbs. However, according to a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (link below), when it comes to insulin demand generated by different common foods, oatmeal ranks surprisingly low while some foods not normally associated with a high insulin response don't fare as well as we would think. http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html

Dear Dr Wiliam Davis,
Could you comment this :
"Low-Carb Diets Linked to Atherosclerosis and Impaired Heart Vessel GrowthStudy suggests that popular diet regimen may have adverse effect on body's restorative capacy

Date: 8/24/2009
Now, a study led by a scientific team at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) provides some of the first data on this subject, demonstrating that mice placed on a 12-week low carbohydrate/high-protein diet showed a significant increase in atherosclerosis, a buildup of plaque in the heart’s arteries and a leading cause of heart attack and stroke. The findings also showed that the diet led to an impaired ability to form new blood vessels in tissues deprived of blood flow, as might occur during a heart attack."
http://www.bidmc.org/News/InResearch/2009/August/LowCarbDiets.aspx

I like oats so when I came across this blog I was interested to read about oats being taken off the Dr.s' recommend food list
due to spiking bloodsugar levels. I'm in this category described in the blog post - "If you are not diabetic and have a fasting blood sugar in the "normal" range (<100 mg/dl), you will typically have a 1-hour blood glucose of 150-180 mg/dl--very high."

I decided to perform an informal blood sugar profile of my typical oats breakfast meal under the following test conditions:

Test device: Accu-chek Integra

Meal:
50g - Quick Oats Homebrand Woolworths Australia
125g - 1% low fat milk
50g Mixed Frozen berries (raspberries/blackberries/blueberries/cranberries)
Total Kcal from meal = 271

No other food or drink during 2 hour testing period.

Testing period: Initial measurements at morning fasting but after gym workout (T0) then every subsequent 30 minutes for 2 hours

Results:
T0: 91.8 mg/dL
T0+30: 136.8 mg/dL
T0+60: 120.6 mg/dL
T0+90: 108.0 mg/dL
T0+180: 104.4 mg/dL

The peak 136.8 mg/dL at the 30 minute mark is within the  acceptable range post meal and well below the 150-180 range suggested in the blog.

I will try slow oats next time - Kcal content is the same but the oat flakes are larger which suggest slower glucose release.

Everyone responds to food differnetly so YMMV.

My husband was recently diagnosed with diabetes. Oatmeal is listed as a low glycemic index food, so we thought it would be fine for him to enjoy this once in a while. Unfortunately, his last bowl of rolled oats with no sugar and only a dash of milk caused him to have blood sugar in the mid 200's for FOUR HOURS afterward.

We are discovering that we have to forget what the industry says and base our food choices on a case by case basis. Some foods cause him to spike, and other foods that you would think would be terrible (like potato chips) don't cause a glucose spike at all. It's certainly a learning curve.

Hi i have been finding the same thing with oat meal. Im on my second day of testing. after eating 3/4 cup old fasion quaker oats, 1/4 cup raisins, 2 tbs pecans 1 1/2 tbs flax 1/8 tsp cinnamon, 1/2 cup skim milk, and 1 tbs of real maple syrup. 1st days numbers where. 110 just before eating. 189 1hr after start of eating. 100 2hr after, 78 4 hrs after. 2nd day. 102 just before eating, 172 1hr after start of eating, 84 2hr after. My question would be. Is the BS spike after eating enough to kill off the Beta Cells in the Pancreas? Also why do I sustained lower BS lvl for hrs after eating the oat meal? Only meal so far that I get the Lower numbers for hours after.

I'm in this category described in the blog post. Now, a study led by a scientific team at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) provides some of the first data on this subject, And why would a diabetic add sugars or fruits to a carb food??? Come on!

I eat no grains and my trigs and HDL are better then your numbers.  The benefits of grains are wiped out by the phytates.  It is a waste of calories.

More internet BS....  Oatmeal is the last thing you want to eat if your a diabetic. I do clinical test for a doctor and oatmeal is a no, no for diabetics... Eggbeaters, bacon and coffee.  Very little rise in sugar..

I haven't been diagnosed as diabetic, but I do have a sensitivity.  If I eat a medium or large meal that includes bread, I practically go to into a coma and must sleep for 30 to 45 minutes.  Yet, I've been eating oatmeal for breakfast for the past year and my cholesterol went from "above acceptable" to the low range of "acceptable".    All my cholesterol levels improved dramatically and are in the most perfect range they can be in.  Though I  don't check my blood sugar, I can eat a bowl of oatmeal at any time and I never have that spike that puts me to sleep.  So for me, it's been a God send.  It's one of the few "treats" I can eat without any noticeable adverse affects.

I wander if the effect is due to the milk solids or the type of fatty acids. If it is the milk solids making ghee will solve the problem.

So the low fat control meal of pasta and bread gives the LEAST amount of insulin response!

So, to avoid insulin spikes you must minimize all types of fats.

Fat+Pasta seem to trigger the insulin.  The glucose response does not seem to matter all that much.

Thanks for the great info as always.

Is it correct to say, in view of the graphs, that this type of dairy-induced insulin elevation is not mirrored by blood glucose readings, so we couldn't check for it at home with a glucose meter?

butyric acid causes an insulin response, as does casein...interestingly, although i can't find it, i saw a paper that showed the insulin response to white bread was actually less when combined with butter...

What if you eat it without any carbs (e.g., like I do with my eggs in the morning)? If there's nothing to trigger the insulin in the first place, butter can't make it worse, right? Or am I wrong?

That's an interesting study indeed.  It seems to indicate that eating no fat at all (the control meal) provided better results in every category except glucose rise, and then it was only with the rest of a fairly tight pack.  Adding any fat at all spiked the insulin significantly higher.   This is consistent with the charts in your post "The Timing of Blood Sugars".  Yet you concluded there that carbohydrates should never be consumed without fat.  Based on these studies, it sure looks like a person is trading a little glucose rise for a larger insulin spike when consuming fat.  Which begs the question, which is worse?  Does insulin cause more problems than glucose?   You did say it was the insulin that triggered weight gain...

I remain unconvinced that I should rush out and follow Ornish.

Interesting post -- and my experience confirms it.  Here's something that I recently posted to the OEvolve e-mail list:

As folks might know, I've been struggling with my weight due to my hypothyroidism.  Even though many of my symptoms have improved, I continued to gain weight at the very consistent rate of 3 pounds per month.  Sometimes, mostly due to a bit of fasting, I'd be down a pound or two, but then I'd suddenly gain back all that weight plus more within a day or two, so that I'd be on that steady upward slope again.  

In late February, I was up to just over 150 pounds; that was my pre-paleo weight.  That's not so terrible in and of itself -- although I hated it -- but the continued upward progression was really alarming.  Plus, I'd outgrown almost all my pants!

After listening to Robb Wolf talk about the growth-promoting, insulin-spiking effects of dairy, I realized that I'd been eating a huge amount of dairy lately -- far more than ever before.  I've been buying those huge blocks of cheese from Costco, not to mention those delectable half gallons of cream.  So instead of eating meat-and-veggie leftovers for lunch, I was usually eating some high-fat dairy.  And for breakfast, I would eat cheese rather than meat with my eggs.  

A few weeks ago, I decided to cut my dairy down dramatically -- to basically just one serving per day at most.  So I'll have a cup of raw milk kefir or cheese on meatza, but not much more than that.  That was really hard for me to do for the first week, as I really was used to eating it as a staple.  I'm also not eating nuts, absent some "must have food as I run out the door" emergency, as I know they can hamper weight loss for me.

The results have been good so far.  I've not gained any more weight in the last two weeks.  Instead, I've lost four pounds.  Given what I had been experiencing, that's pretty remarkable.

I'm not sure how much more weight I'll lose just due to cutting back the dairy.  I definitely think my metabolism isn't quite up to speed yet due to the hypothyroidism. However, my experience suggests that eating boatloads of dairy -- even good-quality, high-fat dairy -- is an excellent way to gain weight.

That being said, I don't think that it's necessary to cut out all dairy to lose weight.  I'm still eating some dairy, and I'm losing weight.  Plus, I lost my original 18 pounds with my 1.5 shares of raw milk -- that's 1.5 gallons per week.  (I'm now down to just 1/2 shares, meaning 1/2 gallon per week.)  I just think dairy is something to consider reducing if you're not meeting your weight loss goals.

***

I've not lost much more weight since writing that, but I'm definitely not gaining any weight.  That's huge: I was petrified that I'd be 200 pounds by next summer.  

I've probably stalled in that weight loss because my metabolism is still screwy due to my not-yet-fully-managed hypothyroidism.  Plus, I'm not seriously trying to lose weight right now: I don't want to stress my already over-stressed body.  But perhaps cutting out dairy entirely would make a difference.

Anyway, thanks for putting some science behind my experience, Dr. Davis!  I'll definitely add a link to it in the discussion of dairy on the principles page of Modern Paleo.

-- Diana Hsieh (Modern Paleo)

My working assumption has been that I don't need to worry about any increased insulin resistance with high saturated fat intake since I don't eat foods which spike my glucose. Am I correct?

Yikes! Never would have thought butter could do this. Are there any other non-carbohydrate foods that are known to cause insulin secretion?

If anything, it seems like the study supports the idea that all fats are bad, doesn't it?

The zero fat control meal does better than all the fatty meals. Look at insulin for instance.

I notice that you conveniently ignored the pasta (sugar/gluten) in the study, and attributed ALL of the negative effects to butter. Try again, this one failed.

Hmmmm, Wheat Pasta and Wheat Bread?
All bets are off. Would be curious to have conducted tests without either of those included.

Could butter still make you fat if you're eating below BMR?  It seems to me that if you were eating 1000 calories per day consisting of only butter, and your BMR was 1800, you would still lose weight.  Is there anything that scientifically proves this to be false?

Any ideas why ?

I believe insulin drives the rate of ageing, and this would certainly make me scale back my butter consumption.  

But what part of butter causes this ?

Dear Dr Williams, I find this topic very interesting, but being a lay person would like to know a bit more. What would the "meal" they talk about be? Would that be grains? Is the resuls they got from combining grains with cream or butter? Would butter or dairy products have the same effect in the absence of grains?

Doesn't this study mainly show that butter is a bad idea when eaten together with lots of carbs?

Is it really likely you would get the same insulin response if the butter was eaten without all that carbs?

After removing dairy, grains, and anything else processed. I'd imagine it would be hard to eat too many calories when all you're left is meat, veggies, and fruit but not too much. Just curious, is that all we have to choose from?

Interesting.

But the meals were carb-heavy, too.

"The subjects then ingested, within 15 min, a fat-rich meal consisting of dietary fat [50 g/m2 body surface area of butter, refined olive oil (ROO), high-palmitic sunflower oil (HPSO) or a mixture of vegetable and fish oils (VEFO) along with a portion of plain pasta (30 g/m2 body surface area), one slice of brown bread, and one container of skim yogurt.

I wonder if the same effect would be noted if were JUST butter, or oil.

Is it the butter? Or the wheat pasta, brown wheat bread and lactosey yogurt?

Thanks for taking the time to post a response to inquiring commenters.

Interesting. Here are the numbers from the study for insulin AUC:

19960 +- 2766 control
27970 +- 2107 VEFO
29619 +- 4975 MUFA
34749 +- 1167 HPSO
37582 +- 4364 SFA (butter!)

Unless I've misread the study, the "control" meal has no fat at all, and is not isocaloric with the test meals. "the macronutrient profile was as follows: 72% fat, 22% carbohydrate, and 6% protein (see Table S1 under "Supplemental data" in the online issue). The subjects also consumed the same test meal containing no fat as a control meal". So the butter test meal has nearly 4x as many calories as the control meal. The AUC for insulin between the two is about double for the butter, but that seems like a useless measure.

Comparing like-for-like, the spread between average insulin AUC for butter meal and the isocaloric alternate fat meals  shows the butter to be about 34% higher than VEFO and only 8% higher than HPSO. (I have to be pedantic here and point out the spread between averages is not as good as would be the average spread, but I can't get that unless I have the raw data from the study.)

If you want to claim that butter has some unique ability to raise insulin vs. other fats, this is not strong support.

You say "butter's insulin-triggering effect, doubling or tripling insulin responses", and "butter makes you fat". I don't see support for either claim when I read that study.

Why ?

How about cream and fatty milk, or other dairy products ?

I guess coconut is again the safest bet here...

I'm not an MD nor a research scientist. But decades ago, I was a math major. If I read the study and do my math right, the subjects ate an 800 kcal meal of which 72% was fat, for 576 kcals worth of fat (the other control meal components were pasta, bread, and skim milk yogurt).

576 kcals worth is nearly 6T of butter -- or 3/4 of a stick! To me, that is important additional context for the increased AUC for both the insulin and the triglycerides.

Considering my typical use (~1T/meal) and considering the potential downside of replacing carb calories with more PUFAs (and omega 6s -- even 1T of EVOO has over 1g of omega 6), I'm not ready to throw out my ghee just yet.

Is it the milk solids that do it?  if so, then ghee may be an alternative.

as a  personal anecdote - eating butter (even in amounts of 200 g. a day) speeds up my fat loss - i feel as if i'm burning inside (elevated metabolism?)...

I see that I touched a nerve.

This study is not meant to stand on its own, but taken in the context of other studies.

I think that you should eat butter . . . in small quantities and occasionally. I do not believe that the data argue for liberal use every day, or else you chance triggering insulin. Remember: It's the interpretation of the data in the context of the broader experience that leads you to practical conclusions.

What about coconut oil as a butter substitute? There is a lot of hype and hoopla about it being a "safe" medium-chain saturated fat to use as a butter substitute.  Anyone tested if it spikes glucose?

Pastured butter rocks. My belief with butter is "a stick a day keeps the doctor away."

It's as though the more butter I eat the leaner I get!

The anthropological evidence really contradicts the data you and loren cordain cite. The pancreases of many people in traditional cultures carried them toward 100 years old, reacting to dairy every day, multiple times per day.

Here is a 112 year old woman from a very long lived people who use dairy as a staple.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8550374.stm

"Fat, in general, does not make you fat. But butter makes you fat."

Why make such a comment in regards to butter?

Dr Davis.

First of all, thank you for your wonderful site and your willingness to impart life changing and saving advice for anyone to access.

Peter at hyperlipid has written a counter on this particular blog entry of your.

Would you care to comment?

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

So let me get this straight: Ingesting carbohydrates including the bad guy wheat does not do much to blood glucose levels and insulin response. But adding fat to the mix at least doubles, or, in the case of butter, quadruples the peak insulin response? That seems like the best refutation of all the low carb/paleo/primal/ef approaches I've ever seen. So where is the catch?

The last sentence made me cry.

It seems like butter (or cream) without carbs does not create insulin spikes according to the study that Peter at Hyperlipid discusses here:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

If you eat fat, ASP levels will rise, which will make you gain fat. ASP levels increase in response to an oral fat load, and ASP is one of the most potent stimulant of triglyceride synthesis.

So, if you eat carbs, insulin secretes and you store it as fat, if you eat fat, ASP levels rise and you store it as fat. Why is it only the insulin's fault?

http://www.jlr.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/11/1727

The oracle's take on your post doc:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

I don't know about the effect of butter, but when I eat a fatty meal (like a cheesy omelet with an avacado), my BG goes down several points.

Here's a study that isolates cream and shows a very small insulin response: http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2009/12/insulin-and-aging-how-paleo-works.html

This is becoming more confusing by the minute. First, no carbs,only fats and protein.

Now, no butter, no dairy, no, carbs, just a few drops of fat and protein.

I am going to cry, like the previous poster.

"Fat, in general, does not make you fat. But butter makes you fat."

This seems wrong. When I eat more butter, I lose fat/weight. Eat more carbs, gain fat/weight. Been noticing this for years. Sure, put a load of butter on noodles or rice, and you'll gain plenty, but just keep the carbs low and there's no problem. This seems like a case of being blinded by science. Maybe the science isn't exactly wrong, but just incomplete or misapplied.

I think I fugured it out...

The AMA or AHA has kidnapped Dr Davis and they are forcing him to post these confusing refutations.

What will we see next?  Studies that show how Cocoa Puffs actually will help reach our 60-60-60 goal after all?

After reading your post and the hyperlipid post I'm left with a few questions.

1.The big one, why is butter raising insulin so much? I had previously thought it was only high GI carbs that did that. Hyperlipid seems to think it was the small amounts of casein.

2.Is it right to say that since the control carb meal only contained 174 calories compared to the butter meal which contained 800 this study is fairly useless? It raises some interesting questions but you can't conclude anything until you have a proper control containing the same amount of calories.

3. Are there any studies which measure insulin secretion after a pure butter meal with no carbs?

Even though the study is inconclusive, I'm lowering my butter consumption until I'm sure it isn't causing an agrovated insulin response. Even though butter causes much higher levels of FFA's which mean more of the fat is being burned, insulin levels that high can't be healthy

All this information hurts my brain...ugh. All I know is when I eat low carb... I lose weight... feel better and more energetic. Sometimes there's just too much analysis and information about what constitutes a healthy diet. It's all opinion and based on research. Then other research refutes that idea.

My Grandma used to say, "Eat when you're hungry and drink when you're dry."

BTW... Grandma lived to be 95.

Dr. Davis,

I'm not too sure this is right.  I don't have the time to hunt down the links right now, but there was a study on Swedish children recently that showed those eating full-fat dairy (butter fat) were leaner than those who ate low-fat dairy.  Also, butter contains a lot of CLA, which is now being sold as a fat-loss supplement.  I can't parse this study on its own merits like Peter or Pyker (though I thank them for doing so), but I remain unconvinced.  

I also agree with other posters about the in-vivo, long-term evidence of dairy-reliant cultures and their longevity.  

Again, with so many cautions of what not to eat, I'd love to see a Dr. Davis-approved diet plan.  If I were just following all the Don'ts, I'd go crazy (and hungry).

The palmitic acid content of the butter would probably trigger  insulin when there is an abundant source of glucose in a meal.  But, if you look at this post by Stephan you will see that the body stores dietary fats when there is a glucose source of energy available.  

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search/label/fats

As the glucose is depleted the fat is released to be used as energy.  The graph in Stephan's post clearly shows the cycling that occurs in normal metabolism.


The information Dr. Davis presented showed an insulin spike, not continual high levels of insulin that would inhibit the release of FA as an energy source.
I believe it was Dr. Eades who recently posted about the constant exchange of fats in and out of storage, and the implication is that storage is only a problem when cells remain saturated with glucose.  The fat never comes out because it isn't needed.  In this scenario insulin resistance and fat storage is protective.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/getting-fat-is-good-official.html

My understanding of this subject is, by limiting carbs, especially the sugar surrogates that are refined grain products, you can keep the normal cycling of energy sources going.

When everything is working right, your body signals hunger and satiety appropriately, and the body runs at an equilibrium level of energy intake and energy expenditure.

I suspect that the FA composition of butter makes it available as an energy source sooner than the other FA's tested in the study.  Hence the higher insulin level.


I don't see where a moderate amount of butter, when there is a limited or low availability of glucose sources will make you fat, expecially if you are VLC or on a ketogenic diet.  I can see where it could be a problem if you were eating 150 or more grams of carbs per day and have metabolic syndrome.  Then high levels of insulin would spike even higher prompting the liver to pump out more glucose, and the fat just has no where to go except into storage.

Take your vitamin D3 to get your adiponectin levels up.  Take fish oil while limiting Omega-6's to normalize inflammatory responses. Limit carbs, and get the glucose-FA cycle working for you.

Eating carbs with butter produces a big insulin response because butter induces temporary insulin resistance (IR) which means that more insulin has to be secreted to get the same net effect. Looking at the blood glucose response, the net effect is the same. So stop panicking. The temporary IR lasts for only a few hours.

"Fat, in general, does not make you fat. But butter makes you fat."

If you based your conclusion on the graph in this study, all fats make you fat.

Protein also stimulates insulin, so protein makes you fat.

Carbs stimulate insulin, so carbs make you fat.

Conclusion: Food makes you fat.

It's known that fatty acids acutely stimulate insulin synthesis. With chronic exposure to fatty acids (as occurs in obesity), insulin synthesis is blunted.

I've never understood the body's rationale for this, unless a sudden infusion of fat makes it think it had better store the fat for the future, but with chronic stimulation it figures it has enough.

I don't know how ingested fat is related to fatty acids in the blood, whether or not this is linear.

Whatever, it doesn't look to me as if butter is much different from the other fats, and as others have pointed out, the amounts used in this study (on top of about 44 g of carb, which I wouldn't call a low-carb meal) were enormous.

The other odd thing is that usually fats slow down a carb-stimulated blood sugar peak, and they didn't in this study.

This is what is considered 'butter' in the study you refer to above Dr Davis and ultimately what this study uses to prove its point:

"The subjects then ingested, within 15 min, a fat-rich meal consisting of dietary fat [50 g/m2 body surface area of butter, refined olive oil (ROO), high-palmitic sunflower oil (HPSO) or a mixture of vegetable and fish oils (VEFO) along with a portion of plain pasta (30 g/m2 body surface area), one slice of brown bread, and one container of skim yogurt]."

Yep, that would be my definition of 'butter' as well!

If that pile of c**p didn't raise your insulin levels what would?

In addition: "The average total energy provided by the meals was 800 kcal (10 kcal/kg), and the macronutrient profile was as follows: 72% fat, 22% carbohydrate, and 6% protein"

Only 22% carbohydrate, no chance of that increasing insulin levels either I suppose!

It has to be the 'butter'

@Helen: I couldn't have said it any better myself. I too remain unconvinced.

You get fat from pasta, bread and butter in combination? Not really groundbreaking work.

@Helen: I found the study you are referring to I believe.

"BMI correlated strongly to fat mass and leptin was the best marker of overweight and fat mass in 8-year-olds. Food choice was similar to that at 4 years of age. An intake of fat fish once a week was associated with higher serum concentrations of n-3 fatty acids. The intake of saturated fat and full fat milk were inversely associated with BMI."

The study was made at the University of Gothenburg.

http://gupea.ub.gu.se/dspace/bitstream/2077/20457/2/gupea_2077_20457_2.pdf

I'm sorry Dr Davis but you really didn't analyse this study properly before jumping to conclusions.

Just wondering if you had seen this recent study about higher levels of Vit D being associated with increased arterial calcification in the African American population: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-03/wfub-vdl031110.php

Looking at insulin alone can be very misleading. If glucagon is released along with the insulin ,as happens when eating protein, then the fat storing effects of insulin are negated.

For low carbers, the study is meaningless as it was done with lots of carbs. I will continue to eat butter and cheese until I see a meaningful study that shows that they cause a real problem.

Maybe DR Davis saw something on that "low carb cruise" that didn't sit well with him and he's rethinking certain principles?

Dr. Davis' goof is discussed here:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

No, Neil, the 'butter' was just butter. They didn't have "that pile of c**p" at one time: each item in the list was a separate meal & separate data point. Unfortunately, the wording of the paper is in places not very good.

"Anonymous said...

Just wondering if you had seen this recent study about higher levels of Vit D being associated with increased arterial calcification in the African American population: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-03/wfub-vdl031110.php"

I saw it, and was hoping to discuss it in the pro-D blogosphere.

I have two ideas why this might be the case.

(1)  Because people of African descent are adapted to live nearer the equator, where the sun is all you need for enough vitamin D, they may not be as adapted as Europeans to use dietary vitamin D (supplements being an analogue), which Europeans probably relied on during winter months.  Thus, too much supplemental vitamin D may be harmful to African Americans, at least in the case of arterial calcification.  (I hedge, because I've also read recently that African American children with low D status have higher rates of asthma. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100317112055.htm)

(2) There is also the possibility that somewhat different dietary patterns between European Americans and African Americans may offer some explanation.  I can't imagine what this might be, but maybe something having to do with vitamin K2, which helps prevent calcium deposits in the arteries?  There are two possibilities here:

(a) Maybe African Americans consume (or produce in the gut - from eating greens, a traditional part of the African American diet) more K2 than European Americans, and this is why they have less arterial calcification with lower D status - they don't need the D as much for arterial health, and more dietary D just upsets the balance.

(b) Maybe they eat less K2 than European Americans (maybe eat less hard cheeses?), and thus vitamin D supplementation, which may require a certain level of K2 to be beneficial, might be harmful instead.

This sentence leads me to believe it's more likely to be (a):  "Despite these lower vitamin D levels and dietary calcium ingestion, blacks naturally experience lower rates of osteoporosis and have far less calcium in their arteries."  The strong bones and clear arteries make me think African Americans may have better K2 status.  

It's possible that vitamin A status also plays a role.

Another thought on the question of African Americans and vitamin D - perhaps *because* they consumed less calcium their vitamin D requirements were lower, so the supplemented amounts were excessive.

The point is not whether glucagon is stimulated. That is, in my view, immaterial.

The point is that your poor, tired pancreas, likely operating at a fraction of its original beta cell capacity from the years of the beating it took while you ate Cheerios and Cocoa puffs, ate sandwiches, and drank Coca Cola with your pizza, is being stimulated to produce more insulin.

Regarding calcification, I think that Helen has hit the nail well & truly on the head regarding Vitamin K2. "If it calcifies, think K2" is what I always say (along with "If it spasms, think Magnesium").

Taking large amounts of Vitamin D3 and nothing else probably exposes deficiencies in the other fat-soluble vitamins A, E & K2.

Having cured Lumbar osteoporosis in three years using Ca, Mg, D3 & K2 (and no Alendronate), I will never stop taking Ca, Mg, D3 & K2.

Why eat carbs together with fat?
They ate 44 g glucose which means the P-glucose could reach >48 mM without insulin i 70 kg person. Of course the disaster hormone insulin increases to block all lipolysis as well as proteinolysis to try to burn off all the totally unnecessary carbohydrates they added.
If contol diet (gluose) did not change glucose and thus insulin level it must be fake.

Just another totally stupid study.

I guess I am going to become a breatharian....someone who survives only on air.....since I have learned that butter and fat stimulates my insulin, protein stimulates my insulin, carbs stimulate my insulin and thus I am doomed to be fat....and leptin is stimulated by all three but my brain doesn't register that I am full.  

Ingesting air is the only thing that will not make me fat.

Go here to be a Breathairian http://www.breatharian.com
You can even go to a $1 million dollar seminar that must be completed prior to Dec 21, 2012.

When I'm low-carbing, a favorite meal is a tenderloin cooked medium-rare, sliced thin, and dipped in butter.

I lose weight anyway.

Also, what kind of butter was used in the study?  Was it regular grocery-store butter, or was it organic and/or grass-fed butter?  The FDA claims there's no difference between dairy produced with rBGH and dairy produced without, but I'm given to understand that rBGH-produced dairy has higher levels of IGF-1.  What would be the effect on insulin of all that exposure to insulinlike growth factor?

And I'll second Miki's question of whether the milk solids wouldn't make a difference.

And to the person who mentioned "all that lactose-y yogurt"--if you make yogurt correctly, it should have hardly any lactose in it at all.

I suspect that the FA composition of butter makes it available as an energy source sooner than the other FA's tested in the study. Hence the higher insulin level.

Fatty acids by themselves don't prompt insulin release.  Protein does (but the insulin is balanced out by glucagon), and of course carbs do, but there's nothing inherently dangerous in a fatty acid that would prompt the body to store it away immediately.

It seems like no one has a handle on how the metabolic parts fit together to make the whole. My experience from converting from whole grains and no-fat dairy to full-fat dairy has been weight loss and increased energy, particularly after eating a selection of artisan cheese. I often get up, have a bowl of full-fat yoghurt or kefir with 100% chocolate nibs and fresh-roasted nuts, then sample several artisan cheeses, and go cycling 44 km before getting back to make everyone else breakfast. My body seems geared to fat as fuel and I never get blood sugar lows. If this is raising my insulin, it apparently does not affect my blood sugar.

Murray

Usually, I learn all I need to from Dr. Davis' posts.  My thanks to the other contributors today for illustrating that context is everything.  We have reason to believe that dairy from the industrial food chain would not be as good a food as if we could get true grass fed dairy cow products - but this seems out of context with other info I've seen which shows only moderate insulin response to dairy fats.  Bottom line: measure the markers which indicate insulin levels over time as a gauge of whether your diet does/doesn't work (unless you are losing weight - in which case, you know it is working).

It seems that whatever butter does to my insulin levels, this does not curb the very positive effects I experience from eating butter. When I cut carbs and replaced them with generous amounts of cream and butter (organic preferably) I lost 14 kg. Moreover, when in "carb country", i.e. airports, airplanes, trains and the like, I can keep my energy up by eating the small amounts of butter and cheese available. Butter also has a way of keeping me feeling full for a very long time. This implies that the fat is not stored away in my fat cells but instead made available for burning. Perhaps other people are more sensitive.

While I often disagree with the conclusions you post, I always enjoy the discussions and research raised by your blogs.  It's one reason I keep coming back for more.  It's keeps me searching for answers.

I still prefer coconut oil for fat loss used in a no-carb diet. I'll find that ghee, which I've also tried, isn't so effective for weight-loss perhaps because it's not so fatty. But it does have to be in a no-carb diet, not a low-carb one. Everyone's got a switch which is triggered by carbs, but no-one knows where it is, not exactly. So unless a study is rabidly no-carbs, none at all, I don't really see what can be learned.

BB

Dr William
your response to the commentors seems to indicate that butter will make you fat IF you have abused your body with carbohydrates because of a compromised pancreas.  I am willing to suppose this could be true, but what about people who his ave not abused their bodies, what about children being raised low carb from the start, would butter be fattening for them?  Your response would lead me to believe your answer will be no.  I really appreciate your blog and recommend it to all, but please clarify this issue.  Maybe a whole new blog on this would be a good idea, since the entire low carb community is talking about it.

To everyone else I have to say there is nothing like testing something for yourself.  If you have an insulin tester, have some butter and test yourself and make a chart.  See how YOU are affected.

The work was funded by the Fundación Centro de Excelencia en Investigación sobre Aceite de Oliva y Salud (“Center of excellence for research on olive oil and health”).

Notice that they end up concluding that olive oil raised glucose and insulin less than butter. Had this study been done by French researchers and not Spanish researchers, it would have found that butter is better for you than olive oil!

Alejo

Pasture-raised butter is a good source of vitamins A, D and K2 plus CLA.

And it makes veggies yummy.  

As Julia Child said... butter is better.

Little test
I'm a very low carber. 80% of my calory intake come from fat. I eat less than 20 grams of carbs. I did a little test. For a week I took tallow and coconut oil instead of butter. In that week I lost three pounds. Conclusion: Butter seem to have a sort of effect.

I love to prepare some recipe that contain many cream.  although i know that a person can gain weight I don´t matter because i love the taste, Simply delicous. And when i cook, my husband usually is very happy.
Actually i was looking information about how tobuy viagra  but i reached this blog, i really enjoyed reading.

The postprandial (after-eating) area-under-the-curve is substantially greater when butter is included in the mixed composition meal. This effect is not unique to butter, but is shared by most other dairy products.

Um... Sorry... I see the data differently.
In the fat meals in the study, the amount of fat intake was the same, yet butter delivers higher serum FFAs, indicating that fat might stimulate lipolysis, even though it appears to induce a short term insulin spike.
Carbohydrate might promote a lower insulin response, but it blocks lipolysis.
Finally, there's a lot more going on here than just insulin.  To take it out of context is meaningless.

but my question is what is the reason behind this insulin triggering effect of butter? can anyone answer this?

It's always good to challenge deeply held beliefs in case we are wrong. I do have a soft spot for butter and hope it is an outlier as far as blood glucose.

I am scary with butter now...lol

As people know, I've been struggling with my weight due to my hypothyroidism. Although many of my symptoms have improved, I kept the weight gain in very consistent rate of 3 pounds per month. Sometimes, mostly due to a little fast, would be a pound or two, but then suddenly I would like to recover all that weight plus more than a day or two, so it would be in this constant uphill again.

people searches

I wonder if the results would be the same with raw butter?

Peter over at Hyperlipid has done a critique of this post of your, Dr. Davis.
Entitled "Butter insulin and Dr. Davis"    He dunna believe you.

I'm stunned by your absolute condemnation of butter based on this one study.  Geez, have you been paid off by Wesson or Crisco?   You need to consider all the confounding variables in this study.  Your blog post should be retracted and/or rewritten.  This is very disappointing after your carefully researched examination of wheat.

In my experience, butter and butter fat are good for you.  I have lost considerable body fat and gained much muscle this year on an eating plan that involves a lot of raw milk and cream from grass-fed cows, 3 to 4 glasses of milk and up to a cup of cream per day.  Butter fat is not making ME fat, quite the opposite.

Insulin goes down faster because the vegetable fats are stored in the fat tissue faster..

A better understanding of butter is here :

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/09/protons-pancreas.html

There is another problem with that study - people do not keto adapt in 8 hours - it takes 4- 6 weeks to fully adapt to a low carb diet.

Once adapted, low-carbers are BETTER able to clear FA as the liver revs up it's fat metabolic capabilities.  Low carbers also tend to eat less frequently - reducing the exposure to both BG and FA - only when both are elevated do we see the pronounced toxic effects of the fats.

Nice analogy.

Any idea where we can go for equivalent tests in the UK?

Nina

Thanks for the 10% off at Swanson's (your ad)!

I took the VAP test and my results were excellent. It was very reassuring.

That dipstick showing a lot or a little oil also doesn't tell you about the sand that chewed up your cylinders.

I've used Direct Labs & others to order my own tests directly.  It works very well.

Currently i'm working with a doc who seems willing to work with me.  However the cholesterol panel he ordered recently did not include the part that actually measures LDL (as opposed to "calculate" it).  He is not opposed to running that test, but tells me he doesn't know if Medicare (my insurance) will cover it.

What is the name of the test i would need to run that actually measures LDL?

Great analogy!!!

Very nice post, but interesting irony.  The doctor implies it is drug companies responsible for the lack of useful testing, and then someone from the UK wants to know where he/she can go for equivalent tests.  Surely not to your primary care physician!  Many Canadians will also want to know because govts are much tighter than insurance companies, since the latter must compete for business.  Lesson: govt health care monopolies spend less because they do less (e.g., testing) and do it slower.

Long time reader, just wanted to post some info that comes within the industry:
"The nmr is not an accurate test. I cannot tell you how many physicians have lost confidence in the results due to the high variance in particle number. One physician ordered 2 nmrs on the same patient by accident and the difference in LDL-p was over 800. Pathetic. Stick to apoB." Sorry that this complicates things.

Unfortunately, some states (I think at this point only NY & Cali) do not allow patient initiated tests outside the "system".  

With Obamacare, I fear more states will follow this, as gawd forbid anyone tries to get a handle on their own health markers, at their own expense and/or try to do anything (like changes in diet) to improve them.

"With Obamacare, I fear more states will follow this, as gawd forbid anyone tries to get a handle on their own health markers, at their own expense and/or try to do anything (like changes in diet) to improve them."

Please tell me what, specifically, in "Obamacare" would prohibit the sort of tests you're interested in?  I'm pretty sure you can't provide an answer.  Your claim (and fears) is not grounded in fact, but rests on the ideologically motivated obfuscations of others who have a vested interest in resisting meaningful healthcare reform.  I'm sure we all had it much better the day before "Obamacare" went into effect.

Please post the components of the complete lipoprotein panel that you suggest.  Thank you

Obamacare is all about government controlling the type of medical care we receive.  It is dictating the type of insurance we are required to carry, and it is all about getting our information into the "system".  

If I'm willing to pay for any diagnostic test, why can't I do this without a note from my doctor?  You can't in NY and California.  I see this spreading to other states rather than being repealed.  Too much freedom.

I too would like to avail of an NMR cholesterol test in Europe, so would appreciate any information on where it is available.

I also read a review recently (but can't find it now) of the NMR and VAP tests, dated 2009. The author concluded that there was little consistency between them and suggested that perhaps the technologies were not yet mature. Any thoughts on that?

I think this kind of test is only available in USA

I am quite interesting in this topic hope you will elaborate more on it in future posts.

Hi Dr. Davis,

Would be useful to get your thoughts if there is any truth to the claims that NMR and VAP are too imprecise to be reliable...

Thanks,
David

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I went to direct labs but not sure which ones are the ones to order. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

In case anyone didn't check. The link provided by Dr Davis to Direct Labs also includes a special offer on 25(OH)D tests.

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy-October Test of the Month $39

Which test do we order at Direct Labs?

THANKS

Presumably you are referring to Dr Davis's post and not my reminder about the special offer on
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy-October Test of the Month $39

The test that actually measures the different cholesterol particle sizes is the
NMR LIPO Profile Retail $167 Direct Labs $99

Jimmy Moore had a NMR lipid profile and he explains his and Christine's  results in this blogpost LipoScience's NMR LipoProfile Test: A Revolutionary, More Accurate Lipid Profile Particle Size Screening

Sorry I forgot to mention Direct labs also do the VAP Cholesterol Test

@ Ted,

Is it possible to have a blood sample drawn in the UK and sent to these labs for analysis?

Keep up the good work on your own blog!

Is it possible to have a blood sample drawn in the UK and sent to these labs for analysis?
Sorry the answer's NO.
Pity as I'd really like a VAP test done.

But while I was talking to them I asked if there was any time limit on this months Vitamin D special offer $39 testing.
They said tests ordered this month at $39 would be valid for 6 months.
So US readers could buy/use one now 2nd week in October, buy a second next week for use in 3 months time (January) and a third before the end of October for use before the end of April before six months is up.
That way they would have a pretty good idea of just how much D3/DAILY their individual body requires to stay above 60ng/ml through the winter.
Altered post to make avoid potential misunderstanding

@ Ted,

Thanks for that.

Do you know of any advanced lipoprotein available in Europe? Any advance on the standard TC/TG/HDL/LDL would be great.

Seems a bit mad to have to go to the US to get a good cholesterol test!

That should read 'any advanced lipoprotein testing...'

Gentlemen--

Sorry, but I know of no way in the U.K. to obtain lipoprotein testing.

Should you discover some means please come back and let us know.

You might consider contacting one of the lipoprotein testing companies, such as Liposcience, Atherotech, or Berkeley HeartLab. (All have websites with contact info.)

In response to the several questions re: what lipoproteins to obtain.

We start with a lipoprotein analysis (LDL, HDL, and VLDL quantification and particle size). Some forms of lipoprotein testing require that you specify lipoprotein (a), if you are interested in obtaining that measure.

There are measures, of course, outside of lipoproteins that are also important, e.g., thyroid measures, 25-hydroxy vitamin D, blood glucose/HbA1c, etc., all relevant to heart disease prevention.

I too, like Ted, would like to have an advanced lipoprotien test,as I think my LDL may be a shade high for comfort. My numbers are:

TC:  6.7 or 259
TG:  1.05 or 41
HDL: 1.23 or 48
LDL: 4.99 or 193
TSH: 3.77
Glucose: 5.2


The only dietary changes I have made in the last year were to take 4 Minami MorEPA softgels most mornings and markedly reduce but not eliminate carbs from my diet.

Dr Davis, I have contacted Liposcience and NMR. Liposcience have no facility to test outside of the USA. NMR have not replied. I will retry NMR and also contact the other company you mentioned.

I will post any information I receive, here.

Correction:
Atherotech responded, no reply from Liposcience.

Correction No 2:

TG:  1.05 or 93

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/119/17/2396

Reply from Liposcience:

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in the NMR LipoProfile test.  currently, the NMR LipoProfile test is only available in the US and performed in our laboratory in Raleigh, NC. Early next year, a laboratory platform will be launched to allow for expanded offering of the test outside the US.

Thank you,

LipoScience, Inc.

PS  The link I posted in the last entry from AHA Journals, is the paper I found on the inaccuracies of advanced lipoprotein testing. That said, I'd still do the NMR test, if I could.