10,000 units of vitamin D

Joanne started with a 25-hydroxy vitamin D level of 23 ng/ml--severe deficiency.

What made this starting value even worse was that it was drawn in August after a moderately sunny summer spent outdoors. (Last summer, not this summer.) It therefore represented her high for the year, since vitamin D levels trend lower as fall and winter set in. This suggests that her winter level was likely in the teens or even single digits. In addition, note that, at age 43, Joanne has lost much of her ability to activate vitamin D in the skin.

So I advised that she take 6000 units of an oil-based gelcap per day, a dose likely to generate the desired blood level, which I believe is 60-70 ng/ml.

Four months later, her 25-hydroxy vitamin D level: 39.9 ng/ml--still too low. So I advised her to increase her dose to 10,000 units per day. Several months later, her 25-hydroxy vitamin D level: 63.8 ng/ml--perfect.

However, on hearing that she was taking 10,000 units vitamin D per day, Joanne's primary care physician was shocked: "What? Stop that immediately! You're taking a toxic dose!" So Joanne called me to find out if this was true.

No, of course it's not true. It's not the dose that's toxic, but the blood level it generates. Although it varies, vitamin D toxicity, as evidenced by increased blood calcium levels, generally does not even begin to get underway until at least 120-130 ng/ml, perhaps higher. Rarely, a dose of 2000 units per day will generate a level this high. In others, it may require 24,000 or more units per day to generate such a high level.

So it's not the dose that's toxic, but the blood level of 25-hydroxy vitamin D it generates.

Provided you and/or your doctor are monitoring 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood levels, the dose is immaterial. It's the blood level you're interested in.

Comments (47) -

  • Pater_Fortunatos

    8/2/2010 8:06:19 PM |

    There is a romanian guy that promotes healthy life style with low carb and other paleo ideas.

    http://www.cristianmargarit.ro/

    On his forum, a schizo girl was asking about suplemments, but she was really amazed by Dr Davis prescriptions, 6000 UI/zi, she said that NowFoods recomand a 5000 UI gelcap /3 days.

    But Cristian (the body builder from the link) replies:

    "It happened that I had once 100.000 UI on a day of vitamin D. Yes, one hundred thousands! When you try to adjust the level for certain deficencies, the therapeuthical doses can be a lot higher than the usual doses, that look like jokes for healthy people."

    Readind the article that Dr Davis just published, I assume he has a point, but 100.000 on a day!?!

  • Anonymous

    8/2/2010 8:16:33 PM |

    hi Dr. Davis

    could you sum up the benefits of vitamin d for non heart patients?

    im in early twenties and have my vit d at 18!

    i feel normal. what can i expect with higher blood levels of this vitamin?

    i have some source naturals 2000 ui powdered caps is that effective?

    Thanks

  • enliteneer

    8/2/2010 8:49:12 PM |

    There is evidence to suggest a correlation between high circulating Vitamin D blood levels (>40ng/ml) and rare cancers (pancreatic, etc):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892544/?tool=pmcentrez&report=abstract

    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/66/20/9802

    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/4/1439

    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/kwq114

  • Anonymous

    8/2/2010 9:05:48 PM |

    My Vit. D level 2 years ago was 42, I started supplementing with 6K per day.  I retested this spring and had decreased to 41.  

    I was amazed and confused.

    After some communications with the Vit. D council,  I found out that the Tretinoin Cream I was using for my splotching skin was interfering with absorption of Vit. D.

    I have since stopped the cream, increased to 12K per day and get 1 hour of sun without any sunscreen.
    I am sure my Dermatologist won't be happy with my tan.

  • aurelia

    8/2/2010 11:22:05 PM |

    Did you call her PCP?

  • steve

    8/3/2010 12:54:59 AM |

    2 questions about vitamin d. Should I take it in the summer months. I work outside all day long? Whats the differences between vitamin d with cod liver oil  and without ? thanks...

  • Tommy

    8/3/2010 1:11:35 AM |

    What about taking Vitamin A to counter balance Vitamin D?

  • Patricia Dillavou

    8/3/2010 3:45:24 AM |

    It has been determined that toxicity concerns for VD3 occur somewhere around 200 ng/ml.  (www.grassrootshealth.net)

    Vitamin D experts recommend between 70-90 ng/ml depending on the doctor.  Some even higher. For instance - Dr. Cannell of The Vitamin D Council (www.vitamindcouncil.org) recommends at least 90-100 ng/ml for cancer survivors.

    Dr. Cannell is also on the board of GRH - both non-profit advocacy groups promoting the health benefits of VD3.

    Grassroots Health is running a five year study on VD3 that is well worth joining.  Anyone can join - find the details at their website.

  • Patricia Dillavou

    8/3/2010 3:54:18 AM |

    Dr. Cannell warns that vitamin A "antagonizes the action" of VD3.  He says you don't need to supplement with vitamin A outside of a good diet.

    Not quite halfway down in this newsletter post:
    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-june.shtml

  • Sara

    8/3/2010 4:07:00 AM |

    I read a study recently where they measured the actual amount of vit. D present in various name brands. They varied in strength from 1% to 82%.
    That's very weak on the mfgs. part and would only encourage the use of prescription D.
    Here is the link:
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/CMSC-ACTRIMS/20522

  • Pat D.

    8/3/2010 4:08:36 AM |

    Enliteener - a quote from the study at the second link you provide:
    ( 7). Ecologic data are not supportive of a strong positive association between vitamin D and pancreatic cancer as sunnier regions do not have higher rates of pancreatic cancer. In fact, the opposite is true, in the United States, relatively high pancreatic cancer rates are observed in states where UV exposure is low.

  • vlado2020

    8/3/2010 11:46:08 AM |

    as much I respect dr. Davis he is like all the docs obsessed with numbers and stability and "safety". Unfortunatelly it ignores the basic properties of vitamin D which is an essential , perhaps most important hormone in all the living beings. First of all , vitamin D gets activated in kidneys first and if kidneys get saturated in tissues where all the healing properties of vitamin D occur. Second of all , there is a reason why oral supplementation is possible throughout life as opposed to simple skin synthesis. Then our bodies can absorb much more orally at once than through the skin which leads me to believe that we are designed to take much larger doses at once to correct deficiencies. Lastly vitamin D is fat soluble so it stays with you for 2 months at least. Having said all that , it doesn't make any sense to supplement every day with lesser doses than you can synthesize in the skin or to follow some magical numbers.
    I have dealt with a very stubborn case of psoriasis for 3 years but in a few days I am taking a big vitamin D experiment, 30 days / 500 000 IU daily, 15 million in a month. Indeed if you search google archives you can find newspaper clippings from 30's and 40's when doctors were more liberal and less obsessed with money of such doses reversing psoriasis and arthritis and other auto immune conditions.

  • MissPkm

    8/3/2010 2:16:13 PM |

    Dr Davis, A great post yet again. I guess that is the one single line I have forgotten to tell people "it is not the dose, it is the blood level that matter"!! GREAT! Thank you.

    Sara,
    There is a big concern for supplements on the market as they are not being checked by any agencies, and just like Dr Davis previous have been reporting on - some Vitamin D3 over the counter are not what they say they are. However in this study that you refer to (the part that I was able to read) they do not list the name brands or the type of Vitamin D (pill, gel cap, liquid) as that also plays a big role. I think it is a big separation from the message in the report of saying to only take Vitamin D2 (which is the prescription vitamin D) when we know D2 is not natural to us humans nor is it better. I suggest you read a little bit more about D2 and D3 before deciding what is best for you.

  • Ned Kock

    8/3/2010 5:00:11 PM |

    Hello Dr. Davis.

    Let me point out a few things based on research on vitamin D. Not all agree with what you said in your post, but then again you may well be right and the research wrong:

    - Indeed, toxicity signs do not seem to occur until one reaches the 50,000 IU/d level of intake.

    - Among the elderly (i.e., those aged 65 or above) pre-sunburn full-body exposure to sunlight is equivalent to an oral vitamin D intake of 218 µg (8,700 IU). That is close to 90 percent of what a 20-year-old would produce.

    - People on average will plateau at 130 nmol/L, after months of 10,000 IU/d supplementation. That is 52 ng/mL. Assuming a normal distribution with a standard deviation of about 20 percent the peak mean (a rough guesstimate), one would expect 68 percent of the population to be in the 42 to 63 ng/mL range. That might be the range most of us should expect to be in at an intake of 10,000 IU/d.

    As we know, some people are outliers. A person who is two standard deviations above the mean would be at around 73 ng/mL. Three SDs above the mean would be 83 ng/mL. These are outliers; non-average people.

    There are other factors that may have affected the results for this patient. Being overweight tends to reduce D levels. Sunscreen also does that. Excess cortisol may also be affecting D levels.

    Below are two links with more details:

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/02/vitamin-d-levels-sunlight-age-and.html

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/01/vitamin-d-deficiency-seasonal.html

  • stop smoking help

    8/3/2010 6:56:15 PM |

    I wonder what levels are found in smokers? I know smokers aren't supposed to supplement with beta-carotene as it statistically increases their risk of developing lung cancer.

    What about vitamin D? Is there any data on this as it relates to people who smoke cigarettes or other tobacco products?

  • Anonymous

    8/3/2010 9:57:45 PM |

    This is so off topic, but for some reason I cannot find the Pharmax website for fish oil. Can anyone help?  Thank you
    From an old person who is not tech savvy.

  • Matthew

    8/3/2010 11:01:03 PM |

    There is a graph of vitamin D blood levels on the video by Dr. Michael Holl+
    ick that shows the knee of the runaway blood levels is around 10,000 IU per day, and he recommends no more than that on an ongoing basis.

    For me, 5000 iu per day stopped my gums from bleeding when I brushed, and ended decades of dysthymia.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq1t9WqOD-0
    http://www.uvadvantage.org/

  • Anonymous

    8/5/2010 6:21:19 PM |

    Dr Davis,
    You are absolutely right that "it is not the dose, it is the blood level that matters”. But, what about the blood level of calcium? One of the causes of the toxicity of Vit D is that it may cause high calcium levels in blood. So, should we not measure also the calcium level, and if it is high then should we not stop taking D, even though  its blood level may be normal or low? Thank you.

  • Ganesh

    8/6/2010 8:17:05 AM |

    How does a dosage of Vitamin D3 supplementation totaling 2,260,000 IU over 56 days averaging daily to about 40,000 IU sound?? Resulting in a blood level of 239.0 ng/mL?? This is no fiction...but my personal experience...and I have never felt more better since then! I got rid of my pre-diabetes, Metabolic Syndrome and other fancy new-age potential diseases...  Read all about it at gkwellness.wordpress.com.

  • TedHutchinson

    8/6/2010 9:16:15 AM |

    Perhaps it would be well for others to read what Dr Cannell has to say about massive doses of vitamin D.

    Warning: If you intend to take massive doses of vitamin D based on this newsletter, which I highly recommend you do not, read the entire newsletter. In addition, accurate determination of side effects of massive doses of vitamin D was not available in the early 1930s, nor was accurate determination of the true amount in each pill possible.

    You'll find the Vitamin D Council newsletter at this link.
    Gary Null and Vitamin D Toxicity

  • Josh

    8/6/2010 12:44:21 PM |

    I've been taking 10,000 IUs a day for the last 3 months.  Got my results back today:  I went from 51ng/dL to 65 ng/dL.  I eat strictly paleo and I also get regular sun.  I expected a greater increase.  I also had a CMP run to check for hypercalcemia - all good.

  • Anonymous

    8/7/2010 1:03:50 AM |

    I recently went to a doctor for pre-diabetes and high cholestrol and found my vitamin d level is 17 and I am breastfeeding. Does anyone know what a safe amount would be for me to take. I am taking 5000 d3, liquid dropper full. I am very tan, and out in the sun...why am I not absorbing or making the hormone? My crp level was 24, they said that wasn;t normal. Could this be a effect of this wheat allergy I am reading about? What do you think Dr. Davis?

  • Jimmy Moore

    8/7/2010 11:12:16 AM |

    I too got the same reaction from my doctor when I told him I take 10,000IU daily.  But I HAVE to in order to reach that optimal level you're talking about.  Two years ago my D3 was 42, so I went on a 6-month Vitamin D3 gelcaps regimen to get it up to 68.  Wanting to find the balance of how much to take, I backed off to 6,000IU for about 8 months and my D3 level dropped back down to 50.  So I've been on 10,000IU daily again for the past 8 months and look forward to seeing my levels return into the 60s where they need to be.  THANK YOU Dr. Davis for leading the way on this important issue.  My wife Christine had a D3 level of 9 before starting 10,000IU herself--today her D3 is 54 and she's completely off of her Paxil medicine.  WOO HOO!

  • Anonymous

    8/8/2010 6:57:56 PM |

    I can't find the link but I recall reading something, possibly by Dr. Cannell urging people who are taking higher quantities of vitamin D to ALSO take extra Magnesium and Potassium to prevent kidney stones(which may occur with higher dosing of Vitamin D).

    If this is the case, how much mag and potassium should one take to prevent stones?

  • Neonomide

    8/11/2010 9:58:48 PM |

    Vitamin D3 decreased relapse rate by 50% in Crohn's disease patients in a 12 month randomized controlled trial:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20491740


    I knew this for almost two years already and got to ditch my meds, just by taking enough Vitamin D3. If everything in healthcare was this simple we would not have major healthcare problems, yes ?

  • mike V

    8/21/2010 4:56:17 PM |

    Dr D.
    It has probably by now come to your attention that there is some evidence for a U shaped mortality curve with vitamin D in elderly men, esp cancer.

    Here is one report:
    *Plasma vitamin D and mortality in older men: a community-based prospective cohort study.*

    Michaëlsson K, Baron JA, Snellman G, Gedeborg R, Byberg L, Sundström J, Berglund L, Arnlöv J, Hellman P, Blomhoff R, Wolk A, Garmo H, Holmberg L, Melhus H.

    Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Aug 18. [Epub ahead of print]PMID: 20720256 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]Related citations

    My suspicion is that it may  be related to insufficent vitamin K2, which of course may relate to typical elderly diets.

    Please comment, and/or refer us to earlier comments you may have made.
    Thank you
    Mike V

  • TedHutchinson

    8/21/2010 10:39:36 PM |

    How to Optimize Vitamin D Supplementation to Prevent Cancer, Based on Cellular Adaptation and Hydroxylase Enzymology
    At the most northerly latitudes such as Sweden, where the study Mike V linked to was done and Finland where P Tuohimaa has reported similar findings, we have to appreciate the people with the highest vitamin D status probably have the largest changes in status over the year.
    Vieth provides a hypothesis that explains how people with extreme changes in status experience longer periods of imbalance between the forces controlling cell proliferation.
    Vieth suggests keeping 25(OH)D BOTH HIGH and STABLE is the safest option that way there is little or no CHANGE in status through the year, so no periods where dis-regulation of the counterbalancing forces could occur.

  • Anonymous

    8/22/2010 11:50:44 PM |

    Ted,

    If I'm reading what you posted correctly, Vieth is indicating that one should maintain higher serum d-levels year round as opposed to allowing them fluctuate?

  • Anonymous

    8/22/2010 11:53:29 PM |

    I'm sure this has been asked before but what's a suitable dosing strategy for someone who just flat out refuses to get their 25(OH)D3 levels checked? My brother is 28, I've convinced him to start supplementing with vitamin D but her refuses to go to the doctor to get blood drawn and when I suggested he order a kit online and do it himself he looked at me like I was crazy.

    I have him on average taking 5000 to 6000 units per day.

    Mike

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 9:39:52 AM |

    @ Vieth is indicating that one should maintain higher serum d-levels year round as opposed to allowing them fluctuate?

    Vieth says so long as serum 25(OH)D concentrations are in a phase of decline, there can be no full achievement of tissue 1,25(OH)2D to match its ideal set-point concentration.

    There have been a couple of papers recently showing ANNUAL vitamin D supplementation (raising status with high intakes before winter) only makes matters worse because it creates a longer period of declining 25(OH)D.

    Note also that because Ergocalciferol has a shorter half life than D3 it amplifies this problem so should be avoided.

    Supplementing DAILY or WEEKLY reduces the potential for fluctuation so are ideal but fortnightly or even monthly supplementation with D3 probably avoid the periods of declining status, if the person concerned really isn't capable of more regular dosing.

    The amount of vitamin D made in the skin varies with 25(OH)D status This reduces the summer rise in status but if you get lots of sun in summer (unlike the UK)it may be sensible to REDUCE (but not stop) vitamin D supplements while you are also getting near full body sun exposure, and then resume the full amount of supplementation as soon as sun exposure reduces.

    I think people who live furthest from the equator have to be particularly careful when taking winter sun holidays in the tropics.
    As Vitamin D is itself photoprotective it's worth supplementing with vitamin D before a winter sun break rather than relying on the holiday sun to raise status. Then reduce intake while sunning in the tropics but resume supplementation as soon as you return. Careful supplementation increases serum 25(OH)D concentrations and reduces the effect of the seasonal amplitude in 25(OH)D on the tissue fluctuations in 1,25(OH)2D.

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 10:11:13 AM |

    @ Mike
    Grassrootshealth graph of typical responses to various vitamin D intakes

    Startling Findings About Vitamin D Levels in Life Extension® Members

    The graphs at the above links show 5000~6000iu/daily gets most people above insufficiency status and doesn't raise status above a safe amount.

    The range of response to regular D3 supplements is about 100ng/ml so without a few 25(OH)D tests it's impossible for anyone to say if you're at the lowest or highest end of that response scale.

    If you're diabetic or celiac then it's likely you're a poor responder but there are people reading this with inflammatory conditions who've taken very modest vitamin D3 amounts but had extremely high 25(OH)D test results.

    It's so simple to put a couple of drops of blood on a test strip and post if off that I'm surprised everyone doesn't get it done.

    Once you've had a few tests done you can more or less predict what the result will be, but there have been instances where people have changed brands of D3, been tested and discovered problems.

    Only if you've had a test can you be certain the brand/batch/amount/dosing regime of D3 you are taking is working for you.

  • mike V

    8/23/2010 1:30:20 PM |

    Thanks for the helpful posts, Ted.
    Is it your interpretation that variability still remains important, even if one's 25(OH)D does not fall below say 30 or 40 ng/mL over the year, or do you think the the lower excursion limit would have to drop to a deficient level at least for a part of the year? It would seem to me that storage in body fat would be a consideration in minimizing variability.
    Have you come across any studies on U curve effects  performed at lower latitudes, or perhaps on those supplementing?

    I am a vintage Brit, living in the "Deep South", and whose last readings were between 60 and 70 ng/ml so I have no personal concerns.
    Last winter I was using 8000iu, but I drop back to 4-6000 in the Summer months, when we typically have highs between 90 and 100F.
    FWIW I have been gradually escalating my dose over a period of more than 10 years. Now in 75th year.
    regards
    Mike V

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 2:01:16 PM |

    @ It would seem to me that storage in body fat would be a consideration in minimizing variability. I agree.
    Bear in mind we don't see significant stored D3 reserves below 40ng/ml but at 50~60ng/ml reserves are measurable.
    I stay around 60ng/ml with 5000iu/d + regular full body UVB/SUN exposure.
    I'm not aware of any data on Ushaped curve at lower latitudes or with people maintaining a steady state 25(OH)D by avoiding declines in 25(OH)D.
    I'd be more than willing to participate in any trial, providing I'm assured of remaining on the high end arm of the study.

  • mike V

    8/23/2010 2:56:12 PM |

    Thank you.
    One more question.
    It appears that UVB/sun exposure is useful way to 'top off' supplementation in a natural or controlled way.
    Seems we evolved our African metabolisms getting a heavy daily full body dose.

    Are you aware of any data suggesting that UVB sourced D has any other advantages over presumingly well managed supplementation?
    Thanks again
    I appreciate your awareness of, and facility at quoting relevant studies.
    Mike V

  • Anonymous

    8/23/2010 6:42:53 PM |

    Ted, you bring up an interesting point regarding different dosing methods. Here's a study comparing daily vs. weekly vs. monthly dosing of D3.

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/93/9/3430

  • Anonymous

    8/23/2010 7:28:43 PM |

    Seasonal fluctuations may be of importance but the overall 25(OH)D levels still seem most important.

    The Framingham Study data and other papers have already pointed out that not only total mortality, but also bone health seems best in about 35-40 ng/ml, not more. Similarly, not-so-rare cancers like in prostate and pancreas (kills practically everyone) may well increase in susceptiple populations ie in smokers.

    There are also racial differences that may be of huge importance. Not only CHD risk and 25(OH)D does follow the skin color pretty closely, but native Africans also have rather low 25(OH)D levels which perhaps explains the association. Even doctor Cannell wrote previously about this:

    "Dr. Freedman and his Wake forest colleagues measured vitamin D levels and plaque (the build-up in your arteries) on 340 diabetic, obese (BMI 35) African Americans and found higher vitamin D levels were associated with more plaque build up in the arteries."

    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/vitamin-d-race-and-cardiovascular-disease.shtml


    Infants in Nigeria have much higher 25(OH)D levels, yet as Nigerian people get older, their 25(OH)D levels drop a lot.

    I'd imagine that tremendous UVB exposure for decades makes it progressively harder to make Vitamin D and that seems to be the simplest explanation. Elderly white-skinned people may on the other hand make a lot more Vit D as a recent study shows. I'd die to know if the same works out for native Africans as well - which I very much doubt.

    Vitamin D has tens of metabolites that form only in the skin. This may be the single biggest challenge to the claim that Vitamin D supplementation fixes "everything".

    A quick googling on a wide array of problems people have had when supplementing more than 2000 IU a day is dazzling. So D3 may be a wonder vitamin, but it's benefits are dose dependent and probably highly dependent of other nutriotional factors as well, since D3 affects the absorption of minerals, expression of hundreds of genes and so on.

    Food rep

  • TedHutchinson

    8/23/2010 10:47:56 PM |

    @ you bring up an interesting point regarding different dosing methods ...Comparison of Daily, Weekly, and Monthly Vitamin D3
    Perhaps that is because I regard the natural level at which humans produce vitamin D replete breast milk, achieve 25(OH)D equilibrium and maintain a stored reserve of vitamin d3 as ideal, not the level used in that study that barely ever provides sufficient even for basic daily needs.

    Health professionals may aim for a level that maximises health service interventions. I want a level that minimises my need to use those services.

    Bankers make more money from people who frequently use overdraft and loan services. I prefer to save up, keep a reserve of cash in an instant access savings account, only every pay cash and get discounted prices.

    You may be happy to manage your Vitamin D account without ever having any spare reserves available for emergency use but IMO that is neither prudent or safe.

    Why on earth would your skin produce 10~20000iu in a relatively short time if only 1500iu were required?

  • mike V

    8/24/2010 1:39:15 AM |

    Food Rep:
    Suggest you take as a baseline levels that are thought to be closer to the equatorial 25(OH)D blood levels we evolved with. Not minimal levels to mitigate some particular symptom or disease.
      Yes, achieving this goal largely by supplements, can be complicated depending on skin color, genetics, latitude, age, body fat, but in my judgment it is well worth achieving, and it will become easier as time goes on.

    IMHO, Ted and Dr Davis have it about right.

    Do you visit www.grassrootshealth.net?
    If not I recommend you do so... soon. IMHO there is not a more authoritative resource on this topic.
    Mike V
    By the way, vitamin D does not *cause* calcification. It does enable homeostasis.

  • Anonymous

    8/24/2010 2:51:38 PM |

    Ted,

    I only posted that study above to show that different dosing schedules (daily, weekly, monthly) all seem like viable approaches in maintaining 25(OH)D3 levels granted you are consistent with it. I wasn't trying to suggest that the actual doses they were administering were adequate.

  • Anonymous

    8/25/2010 4:45:49 PM |

    I just trying to have ripped abs.  I am not taking any supplements or anything like that but the literature here suggests that taking some substances could actually have an adverse affect on your body even though they are supposed to be healthy.

  • mike V

    8/26/2010 6:29:59 PM |

    Ted, Dr D.
    I suggest that vitamin 2K should be considered in association with Vitamin D where the cancer mortality curve is in question.
    **
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_03.htm
    **
    note: I believe I am right insaying that the first 15 references cited in this article relate to cancer.
    Mike

    Mike V

  • max

    9/25/2010 7:50:35 AM |

    good article.

  • Anonymous

    10/30/2010 4:40:15 PM |

    I recently did the Vitamin D Council blood spot test. It cost $70.00 including shipping I think. It was painful and two weeks later, my finger still hurts. If I ever do another blood spot test, I'll try to draw blood from my forearm, although the test requires at least 2 large blood drops. I have no results yet. I am 114 lbs and take 2400 IU a day (softgels). I don't really plan to test ever again, especially on my finger, so I'll play it safe and keep my level around 40. Obviously, I'll have to adjust accordingly, once I get the results. I don't have the luxury of a good doctor. Doctors around here are virtually useless.

  • Anonymous

    1/21/2011 5:19:23 PM |

    Hi there,
    Been researching Vit D here on the heartscan blog and others such as Vit D counsil, Dr. Ben Kims' site,getting good info to stay away from D2 of course.
      But this site, "The Peoples Chemist"- Shane Ellison and blog poster "Chuck" say we all should stay away from any man-made D3(sheep wool) included. They back it up stating specific chemical biological changes in the body.  They say it just isn't the same and can do more harm in the long run. The site states basically that we should be using only food for Vit D3. meats, eggs, cod-liver oil(w/o the vitamins depleted or added)ect...
       This is real important for all of us if this is true.  Please Heart scan Bloggers/Dr. Davis read the info @ Vit D on Shanes site... Thanks

  • Anonymous

    1/21/2011 5:19:47 PM |

    Hi there,
    Been researching Vit D here on the heartscan blog and others such as Vit D counsil, Dr. Ben Kims' site,getting good info to stay away from D2 of course.
      But this site, "The Peoples Chemist"- Shane Ellison and blog poster "Chuck" say we all should stay away from any man-made D3(sheep wool) included. They back it up stating specific chemical biological changes in the body.  They say it just isn't the same and can do more harm in the long run. The site states basically that we should be using only food for Vit D3. meats, eggs, cod-liver oil(w/o the vitamins depleted or added)ect...
       This is real important for all of us if this is true.  Please Heart scan Bloggers/Dr. Davis read the info @ Vit D on Shanes site... Thanks

  • Lynn D

    9/20/2012 10:32:05 PM |

    If our vite D levels show up low 20every year ,even when take 4000/day, then
    are we not absorbing or are we using it up. It sounds like some websearch showed up maybe
    additional testing such as also 1,25 OH in additon to the 25OH
    Thanks for any info

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"Fish oil is stupid"

"Fish oil is stupid"

"Fish oil is a waste of time and money. It's stupid. Just stop it."

So a patient of mine was advised by another physician when he complained that he occasionally experienced a fishy aftertaste.

This attitude perplexes me. After all the confirmatory data that support the enormous health benefits of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation, including the 11,000 participant GISSI-Prevenzione Trial, you'd think this attitude would be history. What's a little fish aftertaste when heart attack risk is slashed 28%?

Perhaps the tendency to pooh-pooh fish oil is because it's available as a nutritional supplement. This shouldn't make fish oil appear inconsequential. Far from it.

If you witness the extraordinary power for fish oil to reduce triglycerides, you will be immediately convinced of its effectiveness. The ability of omega-3 fatty acids from fish to eliminate intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL), the persistent abnormal lipoprotein which signals an inability to clear dietary fats from the blood, can also convince you. More than 90% of people with excessive IDL have it completely eliminated by 4000-6000 mg of fish oil (providing 1200-1800 mg EPA + DHA) per day.

The fact that fish oil is available as a prescription "medication," as well as an over-the-counter supplement, causes some physicians to dismiss the power of the supplemental form. This is nonsense. The over-the-counter form is every bit as effective as the prescription form.

The makers of prescription Omacor also make the claim that their preparation is safer and purer. That may be true, but I'd like to see independent verification from the FDA, USDA, or an unbiased organization like Consumer Reports before I accept their marketing as fact--particularly at $120 to $240 per month! If Omacor proves to contain substantially less mercury and pesticide residues, then that will need to be factored in. (Please note that both Consumer Reports and Consumer Labs measured no substantial mercury or pesticide residues in their analyses of 16 and 41 brands, respectively.)

I try to persuade my colleagues that the idea of taking supplements is a wonderful trend that allows people to express ownership of their own health. What people need is guidance, not salesmanship for a more expensive version, nor dismissal of nutritional preparations that actually possess considerable benefits.

Comments (13) -

  • Cindy

    4/3/2007 1:24:00 AM |

    I've heard that fishy burps means the fish oil is rancid and should be thrown out!? I've also been advised to cut open and taste a capsule every once in a while (I do it weekly) and to throw it out if it tastes or smells fishy.

  • Dr. Davis

    4/3/2007 1:49:00 AM |

    Cindy--
    You're brave. My experience is that virtually all fish oil is fishy to one degree or another. The Consumer Lab analysis is probably the most enlightening on this question: they found that only 2 of 41 preparations had any rancidity breakdown products present. That's pretty good. Neither of the two preparations that flunked their analysis were popular brands.

  • JJ

    4/3/2007 7:15:00 PM |

    Can you help interpret EBT scan results.  50 y/o male with 3rd EBT scan now indicates a decrease:  
    '05 152;
    '06 417;
    '07 350.  
    Is this common?  An error? Please advise.  Thanks you.

  • Dr. Davis

    4/3/2007 7:35:00 PM |

    JJ--
    I'd advise you to see the website, www.trackyourplaque.com. We discuss these issues extensively here. Or go to my book, Track Your Plaque, available on Amazon. From what little you've told me, it could be true or it could be an error, i.e., scanner inaccuracy, depending on the type of scanner used. However, the entire Track Your Plaque concept is built on the idea of trying to gain control over your heart scan score.

  • Anonymous

    5/22/2007 5:03:00 PM |

    Your last paragraph makes perfect sense and is logical. I think that this is exactly what the pharma companies dont want is for the patient to express ownership of their health or realize that otc supplements have any merit. I applaud you for sticking to the facts that you find not just the data and marketing that the pharma companies and reps feed the doctors.

  • Fr. Gregory

    8/17/2007 1:28:00 PM |

    Fish oil is immensely beneficial for many reasons.  The challenge is that most manufacturers of fish oil are not held to any standards, so as Cindy says above, if you are having problems with "fishy heartburn" or the like, chances are it is rancid.  Norway is one country that has strict standards for the production of fish oil.  Hence, Nordic Naturals is a good brand, because it is produced there.  My two cents worth: use Norwegian Fish oil products.  Be wary of product in America.  The "taste test" is a good way to note if the fish oil is of quality.  Rancid fish oil, I've been told, can be worse for you than no fish oil at all.

  • mill

    9/23/2007 6:53:00 PM |

    I know of so many people who have lowered their cholestral but after 6 months of taking 6 caps of 1250 mg daily mine actually went up a few points. I called the company (Res-Q) and they said that happens to some people. What is your opinion?

  • Dr. Davis

    9/23/2007 11:39:00 PM |

    I have never seen anyone reduce LDL cholesterol with fish oil, but that is not its purpose.

    Fish oil 1) reduced triglycerides, 2) reduces lipoprotein patterns like VLDL and IDL, and 3) reduces heart attack and other heart events.

    The only way fish oil can reduce LDL cholesterol is by reducing triglycerides and thereby providing the appearance of a drop in LDL, since LDL is calculated with values that include triglycerides.

  • Mark

    3/18/2008 11:44:00 PM |

    I think it is quite ignorant of you to claim that a dietary supplement is the same as a prescription medication.

    There is a reason that manufacturers need to place a disclaimer on their products "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."  Simply put, manufacturers can put whatever they like in a supplement, as long as they put their precious disclaimer on the bottle.

    By the way, there is no such thing as an "over the counter" fish oil.  OTC implies that a product, at one time, was available with a prescription (i.e. Claritin), and is now available without a prescription.

    Lastly, your idea about Consumer Reports doing a comparison of dietary supplements versus Lovaza/Omacor is a valid one.  However, it seems to me it would be easier to simply compare the EPA and DHA contents of the product to get an idea of their efficacy.  In my experience, there are no products in the market that can match the potency of the prescription product.

  • mill

    6/27/2008 12:36:00 PM |

    Dr Davis
    I've been on 2 naicin tabs daily and my cholestral is done from 240 to 164!!!!it's amazing. Can i go back to taking just one daily  now?
    Thanks so much!

  • mill

    7/9/2008 9:39:00 PM |

    How much naicin is bad for the liver?

  • lizzi

    8/25/2008 3:05:00 PM |

    I worry about omnacor (Lovaza) because they chemically altered fish oil, (made it an ester, I think) in order to increase stability.  I just hope this doesn't ruin its good effects.  The process reminds me of the creation of transfat to enhance the stability of margarine in the 1950's.  It took us 40 plus years to figure out that was a big mistake.  Anyone else worried about this?

  • Mary P

    4/27/2009 2:03:00 PM |

    I have concerns about the amount of fish that it takes to produce supplements.

    If you don't want to take a fish oil supplement and are not in one of the demographics that should limit the consumption of oily fish - is there a daily consumption of dietary fish that would meet nutritional needs? E.g., 80g of sardines or mackerel?

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I don’t have high blood pressure!

I don’t have high blood pressure!

Art undeniably had high blood pressure.

At age 53, he had all the “footprints” of high blood pressure that’d been present for at least several years: abnormal patterns by EKG, abnormally thick heart muscle, and an enlarged aorta by an echocardiogram. These sorts of changes require many years to develop. Art’s blood pressure was 140/85 sitting quietly in the office.

“That’s about what my primary care doc gets, too. Whenever it’s high, he takes it again after a few minutes and it always comes down.”

Art tried to persuade me that his blood pressure was high today only because of the traffic on the way into the office. When I dismissed this as a cause, he insisted that stress he’d been suffering because of his teenage son was the cause. “I just know I don’t have high blood pressure!”




Who’s right here? Well, Art is not here to defend himself. But one fact is crystal clear: you cannot develop complications of high blood pressure unless you truly have high blood pressure!

In other words, Art’s abnormal changes in heart structure (thickened heart muscle and enlarged aorta) are serious changes that develop only with years and years of sustained blood pressure at least as high as the one in the office. His blood pressure almost certainly ranged much higher at other times, particularly during stressful situations like waiting in the check-out line at the grocery store, watching a suspenseful TV show, petty irritations at his job, and on and on.

Blood pressure does not have to be high all the time to generate complications of high blood pressure. It can be sporadic, variable, even occasional. Clearly, sustained high blood pressure is the worst situation that creates adverse consequences more quickly. But blood pressure that wavers from low to high only some of the time can still, given sufficient time, cause the very same unwanted effects.

Control of blood pressure is crucial to your coronary plaque control program. Blood pressure may be boring: not as exotic, say, as lipoproteins, and not as fun as talking about nutritional supplements. But neglect blood pressure issues and you will not gain full control over coronary plaque growth—-your heart scan score will increase.

Watch for an upcoming Special Report on the Track Your Plaque Membership website, a full detailed discussion of how to recognize when blood pressure is an important issue, along with a full discussion of nutritional methods to reduce it, often sufficient to minimize or eliminate the need for medication.
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Homegrown osteoporosis prevention and reversal

Homegrown osteoporosis prevention and reversal

I don't like to stray too far off course from discussions of heart disease and related issues in this blog. But the question of bone health comes up so often that I thought I'd discuss the strategies available to everybody to stop, even reverse, osteoporosis.

Coronary atherosclerotic plaque and bone health are intimately interwoven. People who have coronary plaque usually have osteoporosis; people who have osteoporosis usually have coronary plaque. (The association is strongest in females.) The worse the osteoporosis, the greater the quantity of coronary plaque, and vice versa. The two seemingly unconnected conditions share common causes and thereby respond to similar treatments.

Incredibly, rarely will your doctor tell you about these strategies. Your doctor orders a bone density test, the value shows osteopenia or osteoporosis, and a drug like Fosamax or Boniva is prescribed. As many people are learning, drugs like this can be associated with severe side-effects, such as jaw necrosis (death of the jaw bone), a dangerous and disfiguring condition that leads to loss of teeth and disfigurement, followed by reconstructive surgery of the jaw and face. These are not trivial effects.

Note that drugs are approved by the FDA based on assessment of efficacy and safety, NOT proven equivalence or superiority to natural treatments.

In order of importance (greatest to least), here are strategies that I believe are important to regain or maintain bone health. Indeed, I have seen many women increase bone density using these strategies . . . without drugs of any sort.

1) Vitamin D restoration--Vitamin D is the most important control factor over bone calcium metabolism, as well as parathyroid function. As readers of this blog already know, gelcap forms of vitamin D work best, aiming for a 25-hydroxy vitamin level of 60-70 ng/ml. This usually requires 6000 units per day, though there is great individual variation in need.

2) Vitamin K2--If you lived in Japan, you would be prescribed vitamin K2. While it's odd that K2 is a "drug" in Japan, it means that it enjoys the validation required for approval through their FDA-equivalent. Prescription K2 (as MK-4 or menatetranone) at doses of 15,000-45,000 mcg per day (15-45 mg), improves bone architecture, even when administered by itself. However, K2 works best when part of a broader program of bone health. I advise 1000 mcg per day, preferably a mixture of the short-acting MK-4 and long-acting MK-7. (Emerging data measuring bone resorption markers suggest that lower doses may work nearly as well as the high-dose prescription.)

3) Magnesium--I generally advise supplementation with the well-absorbed forms, magnesium glycinate (400 mg twice per day) or magnesium malate (1200 mg twice per day). Because they are well-absorbed, they are least likely to lead to diarrhea (as magnesium oxide commonly does).

4) Alkaline potassium salts--Potassium as the bicarbonate or the citrate, i.e., alkalinizing forms, are wonderfully effective for preservation or reversal of bone density. Because potassium in large doses is potentially fatal, over-the-counter supplements contain only 99 mg potassium per capsule. I have patients take two capsules twice per day, provided kidney function is normal and there is no history of high potassium.

5) An alkalinizing diet--Animal products are acidic, vegetables and fruits are alkaline. Put them together and you should obtain a slightly net alkaline body pH that preserves bone health. Throw grains like wheat, carbonated soft drinks, or other acids into the mix and you shift the pH balance towards net acid. This powerfully erodes bone. Therefore, avoid grains and never consume carbonated soft drinks. (Readers of this blog know that "healthy, whole grains" should be included in the list of Scams of the Century, along with Bernie Madoff and mortgage-backed securities.)

6) Strength training--Bone density follows muscle mass. Restoring youthful muscle mass with strength training can increase bone density over time. The time and energy needs are modest, e.g., 20 minutes twice per week.

Note that calcium may or may not be on the list. If on the list at all, it is dead last. When vitamin D has been restored, intestinal absorption of calcium is as much as quadrupled. The era of force-feeding high-doses of calcium are long-gone. In fact, calcium supplementation in the age of vitamin D can lead to abnormal high calcium blood levels and increased heart attack risk.

These are benign and easily incorporated strategies. They are also inexpensive. I challenge any drug to match or exceed the benefits of this combination of strategies. Keep in mind that strategies like vitamin D restoration provide an extensive panel of health benefits that range far beyond bone health, an effect definitely NOT shared by prescription drugs.

Comments (58) -

  • Luming Zhou

    9/1/2010 5:09:06 AM |

    Great article. I especially liked the emphasis on potassium poisoning. This is no joke.

    I nearly died from potassium poisoning. I bought 99mg supplements and I once took several a day, along many pounds of potatoes. I then suffered from hyperventilation, muscle cramps, tingling on my extremities, and delirium. I was on a salt restricted diet back then. That was an idiotic move. But I saved myself by adding back salt to my diet.

    I don't particularly like potassium supplementation. If I overdosed potassium on potatoes, then potatoes will taste disgusting to me. But if I relied on supplementation, then I might overdose because I can't taste it.

    Hope this helps.

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 11:23:22 AM |

    on the spot again! any role of GMOs here ?

  • Anne

    9/1/2010 1:06:10 PM |

    What about Strontium as part of the drive to reverse established osteoporosis ? Strontium Ranelate is prescribed in the UK as an alternative to Fosamax or Boniva type drugs.

    I have osteoporosis but I do not have any coronary atherosclerotic plaque I'm happy to say. I had scan to show my coronary arteries are clear.

    I take a high dose vitamin D - current 25(OH)D is 78 ng/ml (195 nmol/L) and do strength training Smile  Can't get vitamin K2 but eat an alkalizing diet with lots of veggies high in K such as kale which, I understand help intestinal bacteria make K2.

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 1:23:44 PM |

    I jumped down from my kids trampoline back in 2003 with immense pain.  I thought I had jarred my back but after an x-ray, it turns out I had crushed 3 vertebra. The year before, I had an angiogram after suffering shortness of breath and jaw pains on moderate exercise. Surgeon told me he could not stent because the artery was fully blocked. the good news was it had happened over time so collateral had formed, so no heart attack. My recovery has been more due to self education and action than the medical establishment.

    For some time I still had occasional angina, but for the last 18months I have been taking K2 together with VitaminD3, fish oil and Niacin. I have no angina, no muscle aches (ok, maybe that was the statin), bike long distances, kayak, hike....yada yada.

    This is what has worked for me.  I sincerely hope people with either low bone density or plaque problems give the K2/D3 route a try.

  • Kathy

    9/1/2010 2:13:32 PM |

    I sure would LOVE for Dr. Davis
    to weigh in on Strontium.  I took
    Strontium 680 MG following everything I learned about it and had a nice improvement in my Bone Density.  However, my primary care doc insisted on a strontium level of my blood and of course it was off the wall, and
    my doc asked me to discontinue because there have never really been any long term trials on it.  I take D as Dr. Davis suggests, and only half the calcium I used to as he suggests and fish oil etc.  Will add K too!  Kathy

  • Kathy

    9/1/2010 2:18:49 PM |

    PS  As per Doctor Davis instructions, I too had a heart scan and had
    Zero plaque.  I am 61 years old and
    have improved from Osteoporosis to
    Osteopenia in my bone density, mostly from the strontium.....Kathy

  • Jessica

    9/1/2010 2:19:25 PM |

    Whenever I see Sally Field's Boniva commericals on TV in which she proclaims, "I thought taking Vitamin D and calcium were enough to stop my bone loss, come to find out, they weren't enough," I can't help but ask (aloud), "yea? How much D were you taking?"

    I get embarrassed for her.

    Docs in our area (FPs and specialists), while now starting to pay more attention to Vitamin D, still take shots at us for recommending Vitamin D over fosomax, boniva, etc. They feel it's unethical.

    We press right on, though.

  • Kathy

    9/1/2010 2:22:09 PM |

    @ Jessica, I truly want to throw something at the TV when I see her
    commercials!  LOL
    As "they say"
    KNOWLEDGE is POWER!  Kathy

  • malpaz

    9/1/2010 2:49:06 PM |

    "Coronary atherosclerotic plaque and bone health are intimately interwoven. People who have coronary plaque usually have osteoporosis; people who have osteoporosis usually have coronary plaque. (The association is strongest in females.) The worse the osteoporosis, the greater the quantity of coronary plaque, and vice versa. The two seemingly unconnected conditions share common causes and thereby respond to similar treatments. "


    mmmkay you just scared the lving bee--geeez out of me. i have osteoporosis and am only 24 yrs old, recovering anorexic now weight restored Smile

    i do have joint bone pain and problms however. i do take D, mag and my K is way over 100% DV eveyday(gimme my greens). not sure where my potassium falls

    so is a hih fat high meat diet goodfor osteoporosis or not? i am no very 'schooled' about acid-alkaline stuff

  • malpaz

    9/1/2010 2:49:43 PM |

    "Coronary atherosclerotic plaque and bone health are intimately interwoven. People who have coronary plaque usually have osteoporosis; people who have osteoporosis usually have coronary plaque. (The association is strongest in females.) The worse the osteoporosis, the greater the quantity of coronary plaque, and vice versa. The two seemingly unconnected conditions share common causes and thereby respond to similar treatments. "


    mmmkay you just scared the lving bee--geeez out of me. i have osteoporosis and am only 24 yrs old, recovering anorexic now weight restored Smile

    i do have joint bone pain and problms however. i do take D, mag and my K is way over 100% DV eveyday(gimme my greens). not sure where my potassium falls

    so is a hih fat high meat diet goodfor osteoporosis or not? i am no very 'schooled' about acid-alkaline stuff

  • Kathy

    9/1/2010 3:03:00 PM |

    Malpaz, I am so proud of you I can't STAND it!  You go girl!
    I've been told once DX'd with Osteoporosis- it will ALWAYS show up in your records, but you CAN reverse it!  Read everything you can get your hands on including everything Dr.
    Davis told us here.  Weight training
    should be a #1 goal.  It is my
    understanding that high fat, ADEQUATE
    protein does NOT promote bone loss,
    as long as you are eating lots of
    non acidic foods too! Make sure you K vitamins, and magnesium and D3
    are what Dr. Davis recommends AND
    FISH OIL!!!  Kathy

  • Anne

    9/1/2010 3:15:03 PM |

    Kathy - I am in my 50s and have osteoporosis. Here in the UK I have been prescribed Strontium Ranelate for over three and a half years now. No side effects and bone density increasing. The company that make it tell me that they are following women prescribed it for over eight years now - so long term studies are done on it.

  • Catherine/Santa Fe

    9/1/2010 3:39:55 PM |

    I have great news!

    I belong to an osteoporosis forum, and a large group of us has been committed to reversing our osteoporosis without using drugs. We have compiled all the credible research we could find on reducing bone loss while also forming strong new healthy bone architecture and started our own bone-health programs---much of what Dr. Davis advocates here plus some other protocols such as the Prune Study and osteo-specific exercises.

    These programs ARE WORKING! at least 40 of us in just this one year have reversed our bone loss without drugs, and actually made increases in our BMD.  (I had a 10-year documented continual loss of BMD and this year gained 3%!!)

    Here is the link to our success stories and the protocols we have been using.  Some are adding strontium citrate, but others  such as myself have had success without the strontium. As Dr. Davis states, achieving optimum D levels played a big part. You will need to click on the Part ! link to read all the back stories--- Part 2 is the current new updated thread just started.
    http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/success-stories-w-o-drugs-part-2/

    A while back, Dr. Davis advised me to try magnesium for my long-standing arrhythmia, which worked magnificently in stopping it, but also was a big part to reversing my bone loss--magnesium, K2, vitamin D, and calcium all have an intricate relationship in transporting calcium and bone minerals safely and effectively to where they belong instead of in tissues, joints, and heart valves.
    Warm regards,  Catherine/Santa Fe

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 3:41:56 PM |

    Kathy, you are so correct about reading everything you can get your hands on. I have osteopenia (strong family history) and have been taking Boniva for over two years. I upped my vitamin D, and added 5-10 mgs of Vitamin K2 earlier in the year, along with 400 magnesium and fish oil.

    I get a bone scan next week, and am very nervous about it. I am hoping I have improvement so I can get off the Boniva and maintain bone density with the vitamins.

    By the way Dr. Davis, I am fairly certain I have a polymophism of my Vitamin D receptor. Do you know if that could play a role? Chris Kessler did an excellent post on it a few weeks ago.
                -Melissa

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 3:47:08 PM |

    Catherine, thank you for posting that information, what great news! Would you mind telling me how much K and magnesium you take? Do you take the potassium that Dr. Davis recommends also?
                -Melissa

  • Kathy

    9/1/2010 3:58:18 PM |

    Melissa don't expect your doc
    to tell you to stop taking the Boniva!
    My OB/GYN was content to let me die on the stuff it was my primary care
    doc that said she wanted me off of it!
    (Course she was the same one that
    did not want me on the strontium) :-(
    Listen to your heart- if your bone
    density has improved get off the stuff
    and use the new tools your are acquiring!  Smile)  Kathy

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 4:04:23 PM |

    Kathy, thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure about my gyn who prescribed it, but my internist did say that if bone density returned to normal, it would be possible to go off. While not horrible, I do have side effects. And then there's possible long term side effects...
               -Melissa

  • Catherine/Santa Fe

    9/1/2010 5:06:13 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I can't tell you how encouraging this is that YOU TOO are seeing reversal of bone loss with these protocols. As I mentioned in my post above, we are trying to assemble these success stories which are plentiful but spread out all over the internet and not easily accessible in any sort of organized way.

    It would be so helpful if you would encourage any of your patients who've had success reversing their bone loss on these protocols to post their stories on the thread I posted above, which is from the National Osteoporosis Foundation's osteo forum---where most osteo patients end up when looking for good info.
    I know there are tons of these success stories that are just not getting reported. And regular doctors don't even seem interested in these successes (mine wasn't-but was VERY interested on putting me on  osteo drugs).
    Thank God their are a few doctors like yourself who are actually awake at the wheel.
    Warm regards, Catherine/Sante Fe

  • malpaz

    9/1/2010 5:15:44 PM |

    wow kathy, thanks for the encouragement! that means a lot. i will get to reading... i do keep my diet high fat but i am currently stressing about fertility as it has been a LONG while since i have menstruated(6-7 years)

    i cant afford a bone scan, hormone tests, thyroid or blood work like i need so i am hoping keeping paleo/primal and lots of adequate food is going to help me. glad to know at least ONE part of this is reversible as i am now left with alot of baggage

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/1/2010 5:18:05 PM |

    Hi, Anne and Kathy--

    There are indeed solid data on the use of the trace mineral, strontium, as a means to increase bone density.

    However, since my focus is heart disease, this is the one agent I've had no experience using.

    If anyone chooses to use strontium, please let come back and let us know how your experience goes.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/1/2010 5:21:22 PM |

    Catherine from Santa Fe--

    Thanks for the links to the osteoporosis forums. It's great to hear others are witnessing similar results!


    Luming--

    Thanks for highlighting how important it is to be careful with potassium.

    In fact, it is wise to occasionally have a potassium and a creatinine level checked to be sure that potassium is not accumulating.

    The dose I recommended is very modest. Accumulation is highly unlikely unless kidney disease or some other uncommon conditions are present.

  • Kathy

    9/1/2010 7:04:43 PM |

    Malpaz you didn't pack those "bags" overnight and you won't unpack them
    that fast either.  One day at a time and you will get where you want to go!
    Be patient with yourself! Smile  Kathy

  • adam

    9/1/2010 8:25:01 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis,

    Another great post, educating as always--my mother kind of freaked out when I showed her this, but once she realized she's taking everything you've suggested to combat her osteoporosis, she was able to breathe again (LOL)

    Here's my slightly off-topic question for you: In your experience in your practice, have you ever seen a patient's problem parathyroid (hypo or hyper) resolve with the addition of vitamin D to his/her diet?  Have you ever had a patient one step away from a parathyroid surgery, only to have the problem clear up when proper vitamin D levels were obtained?  I'm wondering if alot of patients suffer with above normal calcium reading in their blood work because of this?

    Thanks again for all you do,
    Adam Wilk

  • Stephen

    9/1/2010 10:13:16 PM |

    Perhaps the fear of potassium poisoning is overblown? One serving of low sodium V-8 contains 800 mg of potassium from potassium chloride.

    I've been experimenting with topical magnesium lately (Mg sulfate cream and MgCl2 brine aka magnesium oil). It seems to be working. One thing I've noticed since starting taking magnesium (oral and topical) is about a 50 point drop in total cholesterol from 240 to 190.

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 11:22:36 PM |

    You forgot to mention, for those new to this site, that not all vitamin D is the same. They ONLY want D3 (cholecalciferol) gelcaps, not the nearly useless D2 (ergocalciferol) that gets added to milk.

  • Geoffrey Levens

    9/2/2010 1:44:45 AM |

    tI have seen jaw necrosis up close and in person and believe me, you do not want it!

    No need to have "normal"t bone density to get off Boniva, very few doctors will tell you to stop.  You can just stop whenever you want to!

    There is little to no correlation between bone density and fracture rate anyway, it is a scam to sell the drugs.  Quality bone is what you want so alkaline diet and supps as outlined and plenty of weight bearing exercise, esp pumping iron.  No coffee, no sodas, no smoking...t

  • Paul

    9/2/2010 3:21:34 AM |

    It should also be noted that calcium supplementation can significantly compete with magnesium in absorption and utilization.

    There really should be no reason to supplement calcium if you eat plenty of vegetables, especially the dark green leafy kind, or if dairy is part of your regular diet.

    If you find that you need to supplement calcium, try to take it in the middle of the day, and take the magnesium in the morning and at bed time.

  • Stephen

    9/2/2010 2:21:28 PM |

    @malpaz: You wrote "i do have joint bone pain and problms however. i do take D, mag and my K is way over 100% DV eveyday(gimme my greens)."

    The K in greens is K1 and not K2, not the same thing. The Japanese studies were done with the MK4 form of K2 (as used in the Thorne drops or Carlson Labs products).

  • Kathy

    9/2/2010 5:03:26 PM |

    @ Steven!  What brand of transdermal
    magnesium are you using?  I am interested for my husband who I FINALLY convinced to get off statins!
    He had a zero heart scan score score and yet his doc
    STILL had him on statins!  Thanks!
    Kathy

  • kris

    9/2/2010 5:36:52 PM |

    Dr. Davis - I love your blog.  Thank you for providing it for us. I have read the comment regarding carbonation and bone loss several times. I always wondered if it is the carbonation in particular that is the culprit, or the sugars, additives etc. that exist in most soft drinks. There seems to be some confusion regarding this. I love carbonated waters, flavored seltzers with no sugar, artificial or otherwise. Are they included in the carbonated beverages you mention as being detrimental?

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/2/2010 8:15:30 PM |

    Hi, Adam--

    I have indeed seen mild hyperparathyroidism (high PTH) improve or resolve entirely with vitamin D supplementation.


    Kris-

    This applies to all carbonated beverages, since they are all rich in carbonic acid.

  • Paul Rise

    9/3/2010 4:00:30 AM |

    Hi Dr. Davis - Wanted to share my story of calcium overdose. Was told to take 2000 vitamin D but my doctor didn't mention to avoid the D+Calcium brands. I took in a lot of calcium for about 2 weeks and then had painful digestive symptoms and off and on paralyzing pain in my right leg and neck. My doctor's RN was the one who figured it out. After I searched online about calcium supplements and found your blog. I read on and  have cut out 75% of carbs from my diet. Feeling great for a month now. Thanks for what you do.

  • David M Gordon

    9/3/2010 10:17:58 AM |

    Dr Mercola Finally Starts to Catch on to Gluten Free

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/09/03/media-finally-starts-to-catch-on-to-gluten-free.aspx

  • Anonymous

    9/3/2010 8:16:12 PM |

    My mother took Fosamax for years.  She developed acute myeloid leukemia and her bone marrow was shot.  On reading your latest post, Dr Davis, I've begun to wonder if side effects of the drug could go deeper than the bone.

    Nina

  • Anonymous

    9/3/2010 8:21:08 PM |

    Well I've answered my own question with a Google search:

    http://www.topix.com/forum/drug/fosamax/TSK1OBBDLMJ0EJSQ9

    It never occurred to me that Fosamax could cause such devastation until your comment about jaw disintegration, Dr Davis.

    Nina

  • Anonymous

    9/3/2010 9:10:33 PM |

    In today's news is a British study of standard osteoporosis drugs and esophogeal cancers:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6816HF20100902

    Nina

  • Drs. Cynthia and David

    9/3/2010 9:45:45 PM |

    I don't believe there is any truth to the concept that an acidifying diet promotes osteoporesis, at least as far as protein intake is concerned (I won't go so far as to defend the drinking of phosphoric acid, i.e., sodas).  Numerous studies have shown that increased calcium excretion in urine (observed on higher protein diets) is not due to calcium loss from bone, but rather due to increased calcium absorption.  See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20717017 "Contrary to the supposed detrimental effect of protein, the majority of epidemiological studies have shown that long-term high-protein intake increases bone mineral density and reduces bone fracture incidence. The beneficial effects of protein such as increasing intestinal calcium absorption and circulating IGF-I whereas lowering serum parathyroid hormone sufficiently offset any negative effects of the acid load of protein on bone health."

    Cynthia

  • Pal

    9/3/2010 9:47:11 PM |

    still waiting for doctors to catch onto vaccine free life after the gluten free diet! Wink

  • Mark

    9/3/2010 10:14:03 PM |

    Does plain carbonated water (soda water) have an effect on pH or just carbonated soft drinks?

  • Raphael

    9/4/2010 2:06:48 PM |

    Hello, I'm from Brazil.
    I found your website and wanted to ask, please, for that added the link to my blog for disclosure in order to be partners.
    Already added your on my list of partners, ok?
    My blog is about technology, science and health: http://www.biomedicinaunip.blogspot.com
    Thanks!

  • Stargazey

    9/4/2010 6:09:22 PM |

    Dr. Davis, how can the foods we eat shift our body's pH balance toward net acid?

    As I understand it, if our blood strays very far from pH 7.4 ("a slightly net alkaline body pH") we will not be osteopenic. We will be dead.

    If I'm remembering my physiology correctly, acidic food may affect our tooth enamel, but once the digested food reaches our blood and tissues, the body is well able to buffer it to a very tight pH range regardless of the pH it may have had in its original form.

  • Rick

    9/8/2010 11:38:06 PM |

    Dr Davis,

    One of the many sports drink-type beverages in Japan is called Dakara. It contains no sodium, but 180 mg of calcium, 60 mg of magnesium, and 500 mg of potassium per liter.

    I took potassium tablets for a while a few years ago but found that, even on a full stomach, they messed with my digestion and I gave them up. As an alternative, do you think this Dakara, maybe a 500 mg bottle a day, might be OK? (It does contain sucralose, which might present other problems, though.)

    Any other ways to take potassium?

  • The Naked Carnivore

    9/11/2010 12:58:19 AM |

    Osteoporosis is another disease of civilization caused by insulin interference with calcium metabolism.

    Whatever else you do, you're pushing a rock uphill unless you kick the carb habit.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2010 12:36:31 AM |

    Hi, Cynthia--

    I believe that you are correct: Protein sources, such as meats, have complex effects beyond acidification. That's why meats consumers have greater bone density because of some bone growth-enhancing effect, e.g., insulin-like growth factor.

    I believe that it's the grains that upset the dietary pH apple cart, providing an acid load that must be buffered but lacking the bone density enhancing effects of animal proteins.

  • Anonymous

    9/22/2010 12:00:01 AM |

    Dr Davis,  Didn't really understand your statement about protein.  Should I be limiting my protein intake due to my osteoporosis or not?  

    The endocrinologist today told me that she doubts that I can totally reverse my osteoporosis.  She thinks I can make a small reversal.  Do you think it's possible to totally reverse osteo?  Thank you!

  • Treatment for heart disease

    9/27/2010 12:32:46 PM |

    Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

  • Treatment for heart disease

    9/27/2010 12:32:54 PM |

    Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

  • Bernice

    9/30/2010 6:57:09 AM |

    Your article is truly informative. Many women today suffer from osteoporosis. I've read some articles about preventing it by taking enough calcium so our bones will get stronger.

    Back pain is also one of the common ailments of aged people. Causes of back pain are Lumbar Muscle Strain, Ruptured Disc, Discogenic Back Pain, etc. Some people who suffer back pain visit a chiropractor. Brooklyn Center (MN) is one of areas known for good chiropractic treatments. Just last year, my mom had back pain. She went to a chiropractic (Brooklyn Center MN) clinic to have some consultations. After her sessions, she started feeling the improvements.

  • purity12lover

    10/19/2010 2:59:16 PM |

    I’ve been a regular face at the hospital to get treatment for my condition. After a very long time, I kind of almost gave up. Then one of my friends introduced me to Purity 12 products. I said to myself, how can this be a solution to my problems? He encouraged me to try it first and that there’s no harm in trying anyway, and he told me that he’s been using their products and made a business out of it.  As a friend, he bought some products for me as a gift so I could try them. Now, I’m really thankful that I received this gift. It’s been the best gift I have ever received since. I feel better, a lot more energetic and like I’m a totally new person! It’s really important to me to be able to share my story with you because I also want people like me to make this discovery and make their lives finally better!  If you want to know more about them, everything is on their website. Learn More

  • Anonymous

    10/29/2010 11:40:01 PM |

    If someone can't get enough magnesium from their diet, then they should change their diet. I just don't think supplemental magnesium is wise if someone has a basically normal diet. Besides, magnesium chelate is not food magnesium. I do think D3 and MK-7 are a good idea for many people.

  • Anonymous

    12/19/2010 4:57:52 PM |

    I am late reading this blog and want to know if taking vitamin K2 would interfer with taking the occassional asprin - 81mg which I do take from time to time but not daily.

    I did not see you mention anything about that in your blog.

  • Anonymous

    12/29/2010 8:29:08 AM |

    you said: "Animal products are acidic, vegetables and fruits are alkaline."

    Now I have read this for the last 20 years - but have never found any scientific research about it. Maybe you could enlighten me with some links - or facts?

    Many thanks - by the way I love your blog - as does my doctor Smile

  • Breast Augmentation Los Angeles

    1/27/2011 1:38:07 PM |

    Good to know what is going to help the body recover and heal.A healthy body is more than a gift of nature and no ones knows it more than the ailing.Vitamins are present in various fruits and vegetable so we must pay attention to what exactly we are eating.

  • Anonymous

    1/27/2011 9:36:12 PM |

    @ Melissa,
    I'm really late jumping in here and you may not even check this but I have to tell you this. I have osopenia and NOT one of my doctors ever suggested putting me on any type of meds. I was to supplement with cal, and vit D. The ironically, they also didn't bother to tell me how to take the dosage. I didn't know your body can only absorb 500 mg at a time. I was advised to go to a endocrinologist and did. your doc they put you on it to begin with.I would highly recommend going to an endocrinologist..
    Julie

  • Jack

    2/23/2011 5:32:46 PM |

    The AlgaeCal Bone Health Program is a natural <a href="http://www.algaecal.com/osteoporosis-treatment.html>osteoporosis treatment</a> that combines all of the above advice.This natural osteoporosis treatment consists of AlgaeCal Plus, Strontium Boost and weight bearing exercise.

    AlgaeCal Plus is the world's only plant source calcium and It also includes magnesium, trace minerals, vitamin D3 and vitamin k2. Strontium Boost is a supplement consisting of strontium citrate, learn more about strontium, a powerful bone building mineral.

  • Olivia

    5/11/2011 8:04:54 PM |

    Would anyone be able to tell me where I can get the vitamins and supplements Dr Davis suggests? I live in the UK and have done an internet search with no success. I have just been diagnosed with osteoporosis and don't like the sound of most of the treatment drugs available.

  • Magnesium Oxide

    12/20/2011 6:05:45 AM |

    Nice post about vitamins and minerals . Magnesium oxide is also very good for our body's healthy functionality.

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