Warning: Your pharmacist may be hazardous to your health

Pharmacists can be very helpful resources when it comes to questions about prescription drugs.

The operant word here is drugs.

What they are most definitely not expert on are nutritional supplements. In fact, a day doesn't pass by without having to dispell one falsehood or another conveyed to a patient about a nutritional supplement by a pharmacist.

Among the more common falsehoods told to patients by pharmacists:

"You have to take Niaspan. Sloniacin doesn't work."

Patent nonsense. A few years back, I was the largest prescriber of Niaspan in Wisconsin. Although I am embarassed to admit it, I also spoke for the company, educating fellow physicians on the value of niacin for correction of lipid disorders.

Then I shifted to Sloniacin due to cost--it costs 1/20th the cost of prescription Niaspan. I examined the pharmacokinetic data (pattern of release in the body), the published literature (e.g., the famous HATS Trial), and have used Sloniacin over 1000 times in patients. In my experience, there is no difference: no difference in efficacy, no difference in safety, no difference in side-effects. There is a BIG difference in price.

Unfortunately, most pharmacists get their information on niacin from the Niaspan representative.


"You shouldn't be taking vitamin D supplements. I have prescription vitamin D here."

What the pharmacist means is that you should replace your vitamin D3, or cholecalciferol--the form recognized as vitamin D by the human body--with the plant form of vitamin D, vitamin D2 or ergocalciferol.

Since when is a plant form of a hormone (vitamin D is a potent hormone, not a vitamin; it was misnamed) better than the human form?

I've previously talked about this issue in a blog post called Vitamin D for the pharmaceutically challenged.

The notion that D2 is somehow superior to the real thing, D3, is absurd. I use D3 only in my practice and have checked blood levels thousands of times. As long as the D3 comes as a gelcap, drops, or powder in a capsule, it works great, yielding predictable and substantial increases in blood levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D. If it comes as prescription D2 (or over-the-counter D2), I have seen many failures: no increase in blood levels of vitamin D or meager increases.

Prescription status is no guarantee of effectiveness.


"Why do you need iodine? You already get enough from food."

The NHANES data over the last 25 years argue otherwise: Iodine deficiency is growing, particularly as people are avoiding iodized salt and the iodine content of processed foods is diminishing. The explosion in goiters in my office also suggest this is no longer a settled issue.

On the positive side, it is exceptionally easy to remedy with an inexpensive iodine supplement. That is, until the pharmacist intervenes and injects his bit of nutritional mis-information.


I'm not bashing pharmacists. In fact, Track Your Plaque's own Dr. BG has a pharmacy background, and she is an absolute genius with nutritonal supplements. But she is a rare exception to the rule: Most pharmacists know virtually nothing about nutritional supplements. You might as well ask your hairdresser.

Comments (24) -

  • Jenny

    6/11/2009 10:55:25 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Excuse me if I missed it, but what dose would you suggest supplementing iodine at?

    I've been taking a kelp pill with 150 mc since reading your blog posts about it. I seem to feel perkier, but that might be placebo effect, or spring.

  • Anonymous

    6/12/2009 2:47:45 AM |

    Actually your hairdresser might know a lot more than your pharmacist.Hairdressers do have to study nutrition you know!.

  • Helena

    6/12/2009 2:50:41 AM |

    You are saying what I have been saying for years! I am so glad I found your blog! I take at least 5000 IU of Vitamin D3 every day.
    More often I meet Doctors and other people whitin the prescription drug industry that questions my motive on taking natural nutrition, and all I do is shake my head and wonder why they are allowed to call themselves doctors. I thought that the most important thing was "First do no harm"...

  • Anna

    6/12/2009 3:06:43 AM |

    I would add that the vitamin & supp store clerk's advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt, too, at least until you have learned which clerks to trust.  

    At the local stores where I buy my supplements, there are some clerks whose judgement I trust quite a bit when choosing a new supplement or brand, because they have given sound, credible advice in the past, and I know from discussions they have a sound understanding of human nutrition and physiology.  

    But there are a few clerks I know to avoid like the plague, because they have too often "dispensed" patently untrue, biased, and  uninformed nutrition and biochemistry advice.   One of them (the one with the huge divots in his cheeks from protein deficiencies) tried to sell me "whole food plant-sourced" Vitamin D, with the argument that whole food sources are always superior (I already knew to take the fish liver D3, not the D2 from rradiated yeast or plant sterols).

    I'm glad you keep reminding everyone about choosing the right form of Vitamin D - D3.

  • Anonymous

    6/12/2009 4:03:45 AM |

    "Most pharmacists know virtually nothing about nutritional supplements".... got that right.  I asked about vitamin k2 supplements and why there was a 120mcu restriction in canada.  The pharmacist said he knew only about Vitamin K as injections used for babies....

  • Peter

    6/12/2009 10:38:11 AM |

    I don't think you should bash hairdressers as ignorant about nutrition.  Mine has lost around 60 pounds eating low carb and looks great.  I'd take anything he says about nutrition seriously.

  • Kismet

    6/12/2009 11:22:06 AM |

    Personally, I've yet to meet a good pharmacist in Austria. Most of them are even worse than our mediocre doctors; it's really a shame...

    I think I know what you're up to with the sleeping poll! ;.)
    Is it?

    JAMA. 2008 Dec 24;300(24):2859-66.
    Short sleep duration and incident coronary artery calcification.
    King CR, Knutson KL, Rathouz PJ, Sidney S, Liu K, Lauderdale DS.

    I'd love to see the study results discussed.

  • Mark K. Sprengel

    6/12/2009 12:11:19 PM |

    Interesting, my fiance's father was recently give Niaspan by his doctor and at a pretty high dose. He had a severe reactions, jitters, heart sped up etc. and quit taking it. The Dr. said that couldn't have been caused by the Niaspan but the pharmacist said it was as he had the same reaction when he was on it.

  • Anonymous

    6/12/2009 3:15:08 PM |

    Great Post, Thanks.

    I am a bit curious though as to the difference between Niaspan and Sloniacin. From what I've been told, and correct me if I've been given false information, is that Naispan has a substantially quicker release time than Slonaicin, therefore being easier on the liver, especially at higher doses?

    Thanks,
    Kent

  • H

    6/12/2009 5:48:27 PM |

    I have a pretty specific question about the Vitamin D issue....

    I have a Vit D deficiency -- first noticed by the endocrinologist that I see for hypothyroidism. She prescribed a supplement over one year ago; and I get it tested every few months. So far, I still have a deficiency - I don't know the exact numbers, but I got the impression it hasn't moved much at all. I usually take a gelcap weekly for about six weeks after the blood test, and then drop back to taking it monthly (per her instructions).

    After reading the post you referred to above, I looked into it a bit more and confirmed that she has me on D2 (50k units, I think). So I asked her about this, told her about what I'd read on your website and others, and whether it would be better to switch to D3. She was emphatic that it would not...partly (or entirely?? I can't remember if she had other reasons too) because I already take SO MANY medications that finding a schedule that works for taking them where they all work effectively is already a huge challenge. (Some have to be taken alone, like Synthroid, etc. And I'm on warfarin, which just makes *everything* difficult.)

    She insists that she can get Vit D stabilized "eventually" with D2, and that sometimes it just takes awhile. She is an endocrinologist with -- as far as I can tell -- a good reputation locally; so she SHOULD know what she's talking about. But I just don't know; and the ongoing deficiency concerns me a little bit.

    What is your opinion? Should I be looking for another endocrinologist? Thanks in advance for any thoughts or guidance.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/12/2009 7:32:26 PM |

    Hi, Jenny--

    After an exhaustive search, I have come to the conclusion that nobody knows the ideal dose of iodine for human health.

    However, 500 mcg per day has been working well for us.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/12/2009 7:34:04 PM |

    H--

    Your doctor's attitude is, sadly, representative of the knuckleheaded bias of my colleagues: Prescription = good, non-prescription = bad.

    Yet there is no rational reason for this distinction when it comes to D2 vs. D3. D3 = human; D2 = non-human. Which are you?

  • Anonymous

    6/12/2009 7:49:57 PM |

    Kent,

    I believe they BOTH release over a 6-8 hour period of time. If Niaspan was released faster, my guess is that it would cause more flushing and that less people would be able to tolerate it.

    I myself take Endur-acin which is also released over a 6-8 hour period of time.

  • kris

    6/12/2009 8:50:41 PM |

    i usually order mine from IHERB. the reason being is that the feed backs from the users helps to make a collective decision. the feed backs are exclusive to the actual purchasers through email invitations. still better to study my self along with the feed backs. good price, fast shipping, best customer service and large collection.
    As to the iodine Dose, Dr davis, you are absolutely right about the iodine dose that no body knows. we have 5 people in our family. our doses are from lugol's 20mg a day to 650mcg from kelp to one person can only take 150mcg every second day. mostly it is the rapid heart beat and light pain behind the neck is the indication of over dose for me. when i first started taking iodine i have taken up to 50MG a day and it was lugol's. i felt great. but soon after few days i  had to reduce my doze. now i am taking kelp tablets with 650 mcg iodine in it. i am taking these with L-tyrosine 500mg along with vitamins B's. i feel that kelp contains bromine, therefore it helps to balance if it is over dose. i also do not take any vitamins or iodine etc. 2 days in a week, so that the body can not get lazy on this extra supply of vitamins. Iodine also helps to cleanup the body from mercury, bromine, fluoride etc. so it may develop little rash or other signs like too much sweating. i also felt that Norwegian kelp feels better than any other kelp for some reason.
    the other thing that i noticed that when starting iodine or thyroid hormones, one may notice loose gum and pain around the hard working side teeth. because iodine and thyroid hormones get rid of extra water from the body. bones become smaller and stronger. to get rid of the temporary discomfort to the teeth and gum, we have used turmeric powder as a mouth wash successfully. leave it in the mouth for a minute or so and it will help big time.

  • Jessica

    6/12/2009 11:25:02 PM |

    H-

    "So far, I still have a deficiency - I don't know the exact numbers, but I got the impression it hasn't moved much at all."

    Not at all surprising. D2 is only 1/3 as effective as D3. Taking 50,000 IU of D2 is equivalent to roughly 2,000 IU of D3.

    I started with a Vit D 25(OH) level of 26 ng/mL and it took nearly 9 months of 10,000 IU/daily of D3 to get an optimal level (70-90 ng/mL).

    If you have any of the NUMEROUS medical conditions that need Vitamin D, then you likely will require more D than the average person...if you're carrying extra weight you'll likely need more than the average person...if you're dark skinned, you'll likely need more than the average person...if you live north of Atlanta, GA, you'll likely require more D than the average person...

    With all of these factors, its not at all surprising that you haven't yet achieved a good Vit D level since you've only been taking D2.

    Taking D2 instead of D3 is like giving a thirty man in a desert a thimble of water to quench his thirst. He's getting water, right? But, it's not enough to do any good, so whats the point?

    Take D3 and take enough to get a good blood level.

  • Becki

    6/12/2009 11:51:17 PM |

    D3 is best in power or gelcap form?  Does that mean I'm wasting my money on the tablets I purchased?

  • Anonymous

    6/13/2009 12:59:06 AM |

    Hey Kent,

    My primary care physician sent me to a cardiologist at Ottawa heart institute.  I had already started using the "Now" brand Niacin after reading a study from Baylor's lipids online.  I asked about Niaspan as I assumed it was a pharmaceutical grade and more accurately controlled.
    The Cardiologist's comment was that the blood work indicated what I was taking was just fine but she had no issues providing a prescription for Niaspan.  My insurance at the time covered the cost.  I changed jobs, the new insurance company would not. I take 2grms at bedtime.  I sometimes get a flush and tingling, which I did with Niaspan too; but who the hell cares, my tg numbers speak to the value of this minor inconvenience
    Trevor
    Sups= Niacin/K2/D3/fish oil

  • gkwellness

    6/13/2009 8:07:48 AM |

    About 9 weeks back, my 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D levels were found to be dangerously low at 12.2 ng/ml! My situation led me to research, begin a self-directed treatment and create a blog www.gkwellness.wordpress.com to benefit others. I have taken a re-test of Vitamin D and expect the new results soon. Considering that my 6th week supplementation went up to 604,000 IU, it would be most interesting to know my new levels which I shall promptly post on my blog.

  • Helena

    6/13/2009 11:30:44 PM |

    Becky,

    "D3 is best in power or gelcap form? Does that mean I'm wasting my money on the tablets I purchased?"

    To answer you I would say that liquid is always the best. The body can absorb up to 98% when taken by liquid, but it can be as low as 20% when taking by pill. With powder you should always wait until it is compleatley dissolved (20 minutes) or you will loose some vital IU's.

    However I would not throw away your pills, but take them until you have no more. Until then I would look for a better alternative.

    I take my Vitamin D3 by liquid and I love it.

    Good luck!

  • Trinkwasser

    6/17/2009 1:26:50 PM |

    IME pharmacists have a competence range at least as great as doctors

    "If you needed a glucometer one would have been prescribed for you"

    "Sounds like you may be diabetic, I'll sell you a meter and you can take the test results to your doctor"

    two different pharmacists. I've found much the same with respect to knowledge both of drugs and other supplements. A good one can be an excellent source of useful information, if you can find one.

  • AustralianPharma

    12/15/2009 3:10:49 AM |

    I'd like to second a previous comment to put into perspective that a range of expertise exists across all members of a particular field, whether that be pharmacy or medicine. I've had plenty of disturbing queries from doctors to my pharmacy, one that comes to mind is from a doctor (over fifty years of age) that needed to know the name of any antibiotic that comes in a cream. You would think that over the course of a career, and access to printed and electronic resources within their practice, they could figure it out on their own. However, does that mean most GPs are woefully out of touch and lacking the continuing education necessary to practice or let along know where to find drug info without resorting to the phonebook for the nearest pharmacy? Of course not, branding an entire profession due to personal bad experiences is the same as saying a treatment is fantastic and bound to work because of hearsay evidence, or that it worked for your friend's friend.

    Most doctors I deal with are knowledgeable and I am glad to assist with queries, most pharmacists I find the same. If you are asking a 'shop clerk' for help, that is different from asking a pharmacist. It is like asking the receptionist at your  GP's clinic to check your rash and makes a diagnosis.

    AustralianPharma
    http://askapharmacist.com.au

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 8:25:46 PM |

    CT coronary angiograms yield around $1800-$4000 per test. CT heart scans yield somewhere around $200. Though the scan center support staff might not care too much about the money themselves, their administrators likely make the cost distinctions clear to them.

  • pammi

    11/9/2010 9:28:21 AM |

    Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

  • rhett daniels,m.sc.

    5/2/2011 10:23:31 AM |

    hello -

    there IS a difference between Slo-Niacin and Niapsan.  It has to do with the difference btw Ph-dependent release and non Ph-dependent release.  the Niaspan product has a bile containing element that achieves optimum absorption at targeted GI areas.

    also, there are two forms of pharmaceutical grade D2/D3:  brand names drisdol and rocaltral.

    any Non-Rx you get on the shelf is not regulated.  take at your own risk.

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Fish oil and the perverse logic of hospitals

Fish oil and the perverse logic of hospitals

Hospitals are now starting to carry prescription fish oil, known as Omacor, on their formularies. It's used by some thoracic surgeons after bypass surgery, since fish oil has been shown to reduce the likelihood of atrial fibrillation (a common rhythm after heart surgery).

Why now? The data confirming the benefits of fish oil on atrial fibrillation has been available for several years.

It's now available in hospitals because it's FDA-approved. In other words, when fish oil was just a supplement, it was not available in most hospitals. Whenever I've tried to get fish oil for my patients while in hospital, you'd think I was trying to smuggle Osama Bin Laden into the place. The resistance was incredible.

Now that FDA-approved Omacor is available, costing $130 dollars per month for two capsules, $195 for the three capsule per day dose for after surgery, all of a sudden it becomes available. Why would this irrational state of affairs occur in hospitals?

Several reasons, most of which revolve around the great suspicion my colleagues have towards nutritional supplements. In addition, there's the litigation risk: If something has been approved by the FDA, their stamp of endorsement provides some layer of legal protection.

However, I regard those as pretty weak reasons. I am, indeed, grateful that fish oil is gaining a wider audience. But I think it's absurd that it requires a prescription to get it in many hospitals. Imagine, as the drug companies would love, vitamin C became a prescription agent. Instead of $3, it would cost far more. Does that make it better, safer, more effective?

Of course, no drug sales representative is promoting the nutritional supplement fish oil to physicians nor to hospitals. I now see people adding the extraordinary expense of prescription fish oil to their presription bills.

In my view, it's unnecessary, irrational, and driven more by politics and greed than actual need. Take a look at the website for Omacor (www.omacorrx.com). Among the claims:

"OMACOR is the only omega-3 that, along with diet, has been proven and approved to dramatically reduce very high triglycerides..."

This is a bald lie. Dozens of studies have used nutritional supplement fish oil and shown spectacular triglyceride-reducing effects.

Their argument against fish oil supplements:

"Dietary supplements are not FDA-approved for the treatment of any specific disease or medical condition. Get the Facts: nonprescription, dietary supplement omega-3 is not a substitute for prescription OMACOR."

Does that make any sense to you? Should you buy a GM car because only GM makes genuine GM cars? This is the silly logic being offered by these people to justify their ridiculous pricing.

How about: "The unique manufacturing process for OMACOR helps to eliminate worries about mercury and other pollution from the environment."

Funny...mercury in fish tends to be sequestered in the meat, not the oil. Independent reports by both Consumer Reports and Consumer Lab found no mercury, nor PCB's, in nutritional supplement fish oil. But just suggesting a difference without proving it may be enough to scare some people.

Just because something is used by a hospital does not make it better. The adoption of fish oil is hospitals is a good thing. Too bad it has to add to already bloated health care costs to enrich some drug manufacturer.

Comments (6) -

  • Cindy

    1/4/2007 3:38:00 AM |

    I'm not surprised at all. I've "met" people on forums that are on this, and they rave about how much better it is than non-prescription fish oil.

    Reminds me of years ago, when patients were given (in my area) "Anacin" in the hospital, then would ONLY take it for pain....other brands, or heaven forbid generic just didn't work as well!

    Amazing, huh?

    On the other hand, like you say, at least now they're giving it to patients.

    Now how about Mg? CoQ10? Are they starting to show up too?

  • Soundhunter

    1/4/2007 9:31:00 AM |

    Not sure if you find this interesting or not, but after stumbling on your blog not knowing anything about Pectus Excavatum, I went googlin' and got a bit depressed, as it's not as benign a malformation as I was led to believe.

    But I found this site http://www.ctds.info/pectus_excavatum.html which suggests that Vit D deficiency/rickets causes the malformation in many cases, and also that celiac disease might cause rickets in some due to malabsorbtion of vitamins/minerals etc.  I thought it was interesting as you've been posting about wheat and vitamin D and heart health, while perhaps they are also necessary for chest wall health.  I take heparin and low dose aspirin while pregnant to prevent fetal demise due to antiphospholipid antibody syndome (aware of that? causes blood clots), but I'm wondering if it somehow inhibited Vit D absorbtion in me when pregnant, couldn't have been a normal deficiency I was gardening in the sun during the entire pregnancy and I don't use sun block. I assume some of your patients are on blood thinners as I was? I know it effects calcium.

    As for fish oils, Udo's blends are supposed to be incredible, several moms I know use it on themselves for exhaustion and over all health, and many moms swear that fish oils have helped their toddlers with speech delays.

    Let me know if you'd rather I didn't yammer at your blog, I've linked to it from my little blog because I find your blog fascinating.

    Happy 2007

  • Soundhunter

    1/4/2007 10:08:00 AM |

    As for hospitals, well, there's a reason homebirthers and women into birth politics are as passionately anti-hospital as they are, many bad medical practises continue in the litigation crazed society of the USA medical system, from what I read. Forward thinking countries like Germany and Sweden incorporate natural remedies and holistic medicine right in with the mainstream medical system...great role models for us north americans, but impossible in a litigation-mad culture. But, the pharmaceutical companies are to blame too, though that discussion requires tin oil hats.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/4/2007 4:45:00 PM |

    Coenzyme Q10, no. Magnesium, yes. In fact, magnesium is pretty routinely checked and replaced via intravenous supplementation to avoid diarrhea. However, magnesium levels are checked because of heart rhythm disorders, not for general health.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/4/2007 4:46:00 PM |

    I know of no interaction between blood thinners and vitamin D. However, you're absolutely right on the increased likelihood of vitamin D deficiency in the presence of bowel diseases like celiac.

  • Cindy

    1/6/2007 5:47:00 PM |

    I use RxList.com to check any and all medications I am prescribed (or friends/family are prescribed).

    This about Omacor on their site:
    The empirical formula of DHA ethyl ester is C24H36O2, and the molecular weight of DHA ethyl ester is 356.55. Omacor®  capsules also contain the following inactive ingredients: 4 mg α-tocopherol (in a carrier of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils including soybean oil), and gelatin, glycerol, and purified water (components of the capsule shell).

    I mentioned in another comment that I am intolerant to soy, so I avoid it whenever possible.....but to put hydrogenated oils in a preparation touted as "pure"????

    I realise it's a very small amount....but from what I've read on trans-fats, the only amount of transfat that is good for us is NONE!!!

    Of course, the AHA also promotes foods that contain transfats in their "No Fad Diet" (see Regina Wilshire's blog post here: http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2005/07/aha-includes-trans-fats-in-heart.html)

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In search of wheat: Einkorn and blood sugar

In search of wheat: Einkorn and blood sugar

There are three basic aspects of wheat's adverse health effects: immune activation (e.g., celiac disease), neurologic implications (e.g., schizophrenia and ADHD), and blood sugar effects.

Among the questions I'd like answered is whether ancient wheat, such as the einkorn grain I obtained from Eli Rogosa, triggers blood sugar like modern wheat.

So I conducted a simple experiment on myself. On an empty stomach, I ate 4 oz of einkorn bread. On another occasion I ate 4 oz of bread that dietitian, Margaret Pfeiffer, made with whole wheat flour bought at the grocery store. Both flours were finely ground and nothing was added beyond water, yeast, olive oil, and a touch of salt.

Here's what happened:

Einkorn wheat bread:

Blood sugar pre: 84 mg/dl
Blood sugar 1-hour post: 110 mg/dl

Conventional wheat bread
Blood sugar pre: 84 mg/dl
Blood sugar 1-hour post: 167 mg/dl

The difference shocked me. I expected a difference between the two, but not that much.

After the conventional wheat, I also felt weird: a little queasy, some acid in the back of my throat, a little spacey. I biked for an hour solid to reduce my blood sugar back to its starting level.

I'm awaiting the experiences of others, but I'm tantalized by the possibility that, while einkorn is still a source of carbohydrates, perhaps it is one of an entirely different variety than modern Triticum aestivum wheat. The striking difference in blood sugar effects make me wonder if einkorn eaten in small quantities can keep us below the Advanced Glycation End-Product threshold.
 

Comments (32) -

  • Jim Purdy

    6/14/2010 12:21:36 AM |

    Doctor Davis, for those of us who aren't inclined to bake our own bread, but who still like sandwiches, are there any commercially available breads (or bread substitutes) that you would recommend?

    Jim Purdy
    The 50 Best Health Blogs

  • Anne

    6/14/2010 3:19:39 AM |

    Did you check your blood sugar at 2 hours? There are times when my BG spike is later than 1 hour.

    Very interested in hearing about everyone's experience.

  • D.M.

    6/14/2010 5:43:36 AM |

    Interesting, but assuming that the einkorn bread contained the same amount of carbohydrate as conventional bread (if it contained less, then this effect is hardly magical) then one would expect a similar effect on blood sugars ultimately. Perhaps einkorn bread simply left you with higher blood sugars at three hours?

  • David M Gordon

    6/14/2010 11:35:16 AM |

    What do you think of displacing wheat in favor of coconut? The following text is a blurb for a cookbook (of all things!)...

    "Are you allergic to wheat or sensitive to gluten? Perhaps you avoid wheat because you are concerned about your weight and need to cut down on carbohydrates. If so, the solution for you is coconut flour.

    "Coconut flour is a delicious, healthy alternative to wheat. It is high in fiber, low in digestible carbohydrate, and a good source of protein. It contains no gluten so it is ideal for those with celiac disease.

    "Coconut flour can be used to make a variety of delicious baked goods, snacks, desserts, and main dishes. It is the only flour used in most of the recipes in this book. These recipes are so delicious that you won't be able to tell that they aren't made with wheat. If you like foods such as German chocolate cake, apple pie, blueberry muffins, cheese crackers, and chicken pot pie, but don't want the wheat; you will love the recipes in this book! These recipes are designed with your health in mind. Every recipe is completely free of wheat, gluten, soy, trans fats, and artificial sweeteners. Coconut is naturally low in carbohydrate and recipes include both regular and reduced sugar versions. Coconut flour pres many health benefits. It can improve digestion, help regulate blood sugar, protect against diabetes, help prevent heart disease and cancer, and aid in weight loss."

  • Jenny

    6/14/2010 12:12:46 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Unfortunately, all your test showed is that the einkorn digests more slowly than the other wheat. You might have seen the same result with a sourdough white bread.

    A more reliable test would have tested at 1.5 and 2 hours, but because you have normal insulin production you would have to have measured insulin to see what was really happening.

    All carb would have eventually been digested, and it takes the same amount of insulin to process it. While it's good to avoid blood sugar spikes if a person is insulin resistant the einkorn will provoke a large though slower insulin release.

    This is the problem with the whole idea of the glycemic index. If the problem is insulin, the SPEED with which it is secreted really is a red herring.

  • Anonymous

    6/14/2010 12:30:28 PM |

    What about the blood sugar level after 2 hr? 3? 4? Could it be that, like pasta, the einkorn bread gives a steady medium-high blood sugar for 3-4 hours, while normal wheat gives a spike yet quickly falls down to base level?

  • Martin Levac

    6/14/2010 12:45:29 PM |

    In my opinion, the AGE threshold is ketosis. In ketosis and there's little to no AGE production, out of ketosis and there is AGE production. Then there's the bit about ketones directly stimulating junk protein aka AGEs recycling and it becomes obvious what the threshold really is.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/14/2010 1:14:48 PM |

    Excellent points about the delayed blood sugar response with einkorn.

    Yes, indeed. It would have to generate a longer blood glucose curve, as DM suggests, it is still a carbohydrate, though I did not specifically test this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/14/2010 1:15:32 PM |

    David--

    I wasn't aware of using coconut flour in place of wheat flour. Interesting!

    Have you tried it?

  • Martin Levac

    6/14/2010 1:26:26 PM |

    I'm with Jenny about the insulin thing. If we only know BG numbers, we still don't know whether it's because there's more carbs in einkorn or if it digests more slowly or something else. We must know how much insulin it takes to bring BG to those numbers.

    Incidentally, ketosis (and therefore AGE production and clearing) is also a function of how much insulin is flowing, not a function of how much blood glucose there is. So I guess you'll have to measure insulin to know what's what.

  • David M Gordon

    6/14/2010 1:26:26 PM |

    No, I have yet to try coconut flour. In an odd moment of serendipity, I received a scanned copy of the cookbook concurrent with your post.

    Odd, because for some health reason I do not recall (not allergy, though) I had strayed away from coconut everything. But things change.

    So I will share the cookbook with my wife, and request, nicely, we try a recipe or two. We attempt to go wheat-free this week, so I will wait out this test before trying, and then report back.

    PS: I receive the results of my lab tests this afternoon. I sure hope the many changes I put into place several months ago on your suggestions changed my numbers for the better!

  • Emily

    6/14/2010 1:41:04 PM |

    coconut flour/fiber isn't truly low in carbs, it has 8 grams carbs/ 2 Tablespoon sized serving. 5 grams of that is fiber, which according to some carb-counters, isn't counted as a true carb.

    also coconut flour bread tastes absolutely nothing like wheat bread.  i dont think i could convince a wheat lover that coconut flour bread was the way to go.

  • k

    6/14/2010 1:55:59 PM |

    Reminds me of Dr. Bernstein, when testing his blood sugar after eating various brands of crackers. He did find one that did not spike blood sugar levels - GG Scandinavian Crispbread, made from unprocessed wheat bran. I tried them and liken it to eating a wood shingle (ok, I imagine that is exactly what a wood shingle would taste like). He tries substituting it as bread in a couple of recipes. This struck me as almost sad; our craving and addiction to starch/sugar is mind blowing.

  • LeenaS

    6/14/2010 5:52:49 PM |

    Dear Dr Davis,

    Since you are experimenting, would you consider the option of making your own regular wheat bread the way you made the eikorn bread?

    Ready-milled whole wheat flour bought from a store differs dramaticlly from freshly milled flour, both enzymatically and in fatty acid quality. Only with freshly milled flour one has a chance to digest non-degraded Pufas (present in all grains).

    Regards,
    LeenaS

  • jandro

    6/14/2010 6:03:48 PM |

    Very interesting. I wonder if they both had the same caloric density. If eikorn has lower calories it would show a lower glucose response. I wonder what your reaction to something like a sweet potato is. I stay away from grains as they don't agree will with me.

    About coconut flour, I have used it before for making pancakes. I really like it but I LOVE coconut in general, someone who doesn't like coconut might feel differently about it. An advantage to other nut flours is that it's low in O6.

  • Tony

    6/14/2010 6:37:42 PM |

    The Many Uses of Coconut Flour:

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/coconut-flour/

  • Marnae

    6/14/2010 8:04:58 PM |

    Yeast needs sugar to work properly--just a little sugar or honey would have made the bread rise much better. No sense using yeast if there's no sugar for it to eat.

  • DogwoodTree05

    6/14/2010 10:20:24 PM |

    Coconut flour is okay for brownies, bar cookies, and pancakes.  It would never yield an edible bread.  Gluten-free baked goods are unsatisfactory, IMO.  They have a somewhat crumbly texture, not spongy like wheat.  I have tried coconut, almond, and other gluten-free flours, including grain-based ones sold commercially.  Nothing can replace the spongy texture that wheat gives baked goods.  Save for the occasional bar cookie or pancake made with coconut or almond flour, I've given up eating flour-based products.

  • Michael

    6/14/2010 10:31:18 PM |

    Coconut flour is okay for some recipes but functionally speaking it certainly is not a substitute for sandwich bread.

    While it is not a grain I still had a weird feeling after eating it. I think it shares the same need as all flour to be fresh milled and used immediately, or fresh milled and then soaked or fermented in some way.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/15/2010 2:10:09 AM |

    Hi, Leena--

    Actually, the whole wheat (not einkorn) bread was made from flour that was freshly ground. I shudder to think what might have happened had it been store-bought flour.

  • Cheryl

    6/15/2010 2:53:50 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I wonder if you'll try this experiment again, this time with a CGM and periodic draws to find out what your insulin level was.

    This experiment, to a more casual reader, provides too much hope (to a person with diabetes) that they can eat bread and still have optimal glucose levels.

    Diabetes has been documented in the ancient world it may be that a 'treat' wouldn't harm someone once, but a regular and consistent 'treat' becomes a habit. Poor habits are what precipitate diseases like Type 2 diabetes, yes?

  • Hans Keer

    6/15/2010 5:40:33 AM |

    Funny experiment, but as stated by other commenters, it does not say much. And as you have said before yourself: "The best thing is to avoid grain consumption". Some dangers of grains: http://bit.ly/ckgK4E

  • Alfredo E.

    6/15/2010 4:56:40 PM |

    Dr. Davis, you wrote: “After the conventional wheat, I also felt weird: a little queasy, some acid in the back of my throat, a little spacey. I biked for an hour solid to reduce my blood sugar back to its starting level”

    I am very interested to know how biking reduced your blood sugar after one hour. Do you have some ideas as how exercise can actually reduce blood sugar?

    In my case, I am pre diabetic and after one hour of intense exercise my blood sugar is very similar to before exercise, above 100's. Nevertheless, after some meals, it could come down to 80’s, how could that be explained?

    Best wishes,
    Alfredo E.

  • shutchings

    6/17/2010 7:21:21 AM |

    Where can you buy bread made from freshly ground wheat?!

  • rmarie

    6/17/2010 7:18:18 PM |

    @Alfredo
    I'm prediabetic too and I've discovered a quick and convenient way to lower my BG: I do 50-60 jumping jacks and if it's very high I'll add 20 pushups. It takes about 5 minutes and lowers my BG anywhere from 20 to 40 points in half an hour or so.

    The glucose in your body is reduced quickly because anaerobic exercise like that requires a lot of energy and it takes that in the form of glucose. So it's not an artifical lowering of BG like through medication. The body just uses up available glucose more quickly.

    Some may worry that such a large BG drop might make them hypoglycemic but I have never had that happen to me even before I was doing this. I'm not on any medication.

    Maybe Dr. Davis can elaborate on this a little more. We don't always have time or circumstance to go bike riding to lower our BG and for me this is a convenient alternative.

  • Carrie

    6/23/2010 12:03:26 AM |

    Dr. Davis-
    A friend of mine who is new to GF eating mentioned that her husband's blood pressure has stabilized rather quickly after eliminating wheat. I googled "GF for heart health", and was delighted to discover your blog.    

    My family eats grain free, and the only flour I use is coconut flour.  I recommend Bruce Fife's book "Cooking with Coconut Flour" as a jumping off point, because it explains how the properties of coconut flour make it unique to cook and bake with.  You NEED many more eggs than in a traditional bread recipe because that is what gives it a light airy texture, and you also need lots of fats to ensure it is moist.  I really don't do any cakes, cookies, etc because we try and stay low-carb, but the coconut flour has been great for breakfast, because neither my baby or I can eat eggs plain (wish I could, but they make me gag, he does too).  

    Coconut Flour Crepes:
    Mix
    2 eggs
    2 TBSP melted butter or coconut oil (if you use coconut oil, the eggs need to be room temp or it will clump up)
    Add 2 TBSP of sifted coconut flour and mix again until smooth.  
    Finally thin the mixture with about 1/3 cup of water and/or coconut milk
    (I use frozen from Asian market, not canned, and dilute it 50/50 with water and a drop of vanilla Stevia)

    cook crepes in pan brushed with ample coconut oil.  They are great with just butter.

  • David M Gordon

    6/23/2010 2:24:17 AM |

    Dr Davis,

    The book Carrie mentions, Cooking with Coconut Flour, is the one I mentioned last week. I have the entire book as a 2Mb pdf file, and am happy to share with anyone interested.

  • Kris

    6/28/2010 9:43:44 AM |

    Doctor Davis

    i think we are missing a very vital step here that is of fermenting wheat dough (making sourdough wheat). That is THE traditional style of consuming wheat everyday around the world.

    The process is neatly captured under subheading Europe:Sourdough Bread.

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search/label/gluten


    That is how entire Indian subcontinent consumes wheat. That is approximately 2 billion people, not counting europe!

    I will really look forward to seeing how sourdough wheat plays out in these tests as that is the staple food for the vast majority day in and day out.

  • Ginger

    8/1/2010 8:09:31 PM |

    Great interview with einkorn wheat producer Etienne Mabille that may interest some of you: http://www.satoriz.fr/les-entretiens/Le-Petit-Epeautre-de-Haute-Provence/article-sat-info-500-5.html (you will have to use an online translation tool if you don't read french)

  • Chris Masterjohn

    9/16/2010 2:42:21 AM |

    Hi Dr. Davis,

    Interesting post.  I just received my shipment of einkorn today.  I'll be performing a more sophisticated version of your experiment on myself beginning next week and I'll let you know the results.  Just have to get a blood sugar-o-meter first.

    Chris

  • susan

    8/29/2012 4:32:22 PM |

    David M Gordon,
    is it still possible to get a copy of the coconut flour book?
    sue

  • Mark Richardson

    5/6/2014 4:19:47 PM |

    Tested my wife's BG before she ate a bowl of glutten free cereal 90. 1 hour latter was 308. I sure got her attention!

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