Dr. Davis, thanks a lot for publicizing this offer! And thanks to Dr. Cannell for arranging the test with ZRT.

I've ordered my 4-pack and am looking forward to checking my D3 levels.

Hey Doc- I'm due for my D level check, so I ordered a single level AND on the same day I finger stick for the ZRT test, I'll also have a 25(OH) run through the lab. I'm curious to see how well the two correlate (I have an HSA so I don't mind to spend the $65 on the home test and the $59 that my ins approves for the test thats done through the lab).

Its worth the one time expense to see the potential.

I'm PSYCHED about the home test!

I'll let you know how it goes.

Hi, Jessica--

Please do!

The ZRT test is not available in California or NY.

Sigh..

Bob

Bob--

NY and CA are ridiculous in their regulations, no doubt about it.  Why is it any of the state's business if you, as a private individual, want to contract to get  your own personal blood analyzed by whomever you choose?

It's really all about money.  At least in NYS, I know it takes millions in order for a comapny to become "licenced" in the state.

If you really do care about getting your D tested and you don't have a doc, you can order a blood test from the Life Extension Foundation.  Go to www.lef.org and search under blood tests.

It's $62 for non members, $42 for members.  However, you do need to get your blood drawn at a blood draw place, so not as convenient.  But still about the same price.

best wishes
-g

Hi Dr. Davis,

  I ordered this test and it took about 2 weeks to get the results back.  I came back at a 50ng/ml.  This is after supplementing (blindly) for a year with 4000IU of Carlson D3 gelcaps, I shudder to think what it was before that.  Will definitely be upping to 6000IU and trying again in 3 months for 60-70ng/ml.  I'm a 39 year old white male living in PA who rarely sees much sun (but hey I've still got great skin!).  I've noted a definite improvement in mood, used to be depressed and anxious alot.

i ordered the blood spot kit as here in the UK i couldnt get a doctor to test infact got told that no-one is low. I was taking 400iu at first upped it to 1000iu then 4 weeks ago upped it to 5000iu that i had to order from the vitamin d council as couldnt get it here. My test results showed low 31. I dont no if i should up it again to reach over 50. I am wondering what my level was before. I got extra kits as well as it looks like i have to look after my own levels.

Now they're saying tanning beds cause cancer! - "WHO: Tanning Beds Cause Cancer" -> http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/news/20090728/who-tanning-beds-cause-cancer

I did the fingerstick through Grassroots as did my husband. Our results showed me at 13 and him at 23. (We are 50 & 51 respectively). We'll be starting on 6000IU right away.

I took the test also. I was at 27 at 2000.  I am now up to 6000-8000 depending on how much sun I have and my blood serum levels are up to 62, and I feel great.

I am in California, and I was able to get the test-??

Do you have a health success story that you can share?  I am collecting alternative and holistic success stories so we can all learn from each others success!  

I am still building the site, but if you have a story to share, please add it.  It is through sharing our experiences and stories that we can help each other on our quest to wellness!

http://dactionhealth.ning.com/

This test was very important for me!! the results be fine. Thanks for you recomendations Dr. :=)

This test was very important for me!! the results be fine. Thanks for you recomendations Dr. :=)

I ordered a kit today to measure my D levels.  I'm quite curious to see what they are since I've been diagnosed with osteopenia.  I am going to do everything in my power to improve my bone density and feel that by knowing what my Vitamin D levels are, and going accordingly is one stop toward this goal.  If I accomplish this goal, I am going to encourage my family, particularly the women to do the same, which is to get their D levels measured and know exactly what they must do to improve their bone density.  The more women who do this can hopefully alleviate the epidemic that prevails in our country, namely either osteopenia or osteoporosis!
Marie Roy

Great article. I especially liked the emphasis on potassium poisoning. This is no joke.

I nearly died from potassium poisoning. I bought 99mg supplements and I once took several a day, along many pounds of potatoes. I then suffered from hyperventilation, muscle cramps, tingling on my extremities, and delirium. I was on a salt restricted diet back then. That was an idiotic move. But I saved myself by adding back salt to my diet.

I don't particularly like potassium supplementation. If I overdosed potassium on potatoes, then potatoes will taste disgusting to me. But if I relied on supplementation, then I might overdose because I can't taste it.

Hope this helps.

on the spot again! any role of GMOs here ?

What about Strontium as part of the drive to reverse established osteoporosis ? Strontium Ranelate is prescribed in the UK as an alternative to Fosamax or Boniva type drugs.

I have osteoporosis but I do not have any coronary atherosclerotic plaque I'm happy to say. I had scan to show my coronary arteries are clear.

I take a high dose vitamin D - current 25(OH)D is 78 ng/ml (195 nmol/L) and do strength training   Can't get vitamin K2 but eat an alkalizing diet with lots of veggies high in K such as kale which, I understand help intestinal bacteria make K2.

I jumped down from my kids trampoline back in 2003 with immense pain.  I thought I had jarred my back but after an x-ray, it turns out I had crushed 3 vertebra. The year before, I had an angiogram after suffering shortness of breath and jaw pains on moderate exercise. Surgeon told me he could not stent because the artery was fully blocked. the good news was it had happened over time so collateral had formed, so no heart attack. My recovery has been more due to self education and action than the medical establishment.

For some time I still had occasional angina, but for the last 18months I have been taking K2 together with VitaminD3, fish oil and Niacin. I have no angina, no muscle aches (ok, maybe that was the statin), bike long distances, kayak, hike....yada yada.

This is what has worked for me.  I sincerely hope people with either low bone density or plaque problems give the K2/D3 route a try.

I sure would LOVE for Dr. Davis
to weigh in on Strontium.  I took
Strontium 680 MG following everything I learned about it and had a nice improvement in my Bone Density.  However, my primary care doc insisted on a strontium level of my blood and of course it was off the wall, and
my doc asked me to discontinue because there have never really been any long term trials on it.  I take D as Dr. Davis suggests, and only half the calcium I used to as he suggests and fish oil etc.  Will add K too!  Kathy

PS  As per Doctor Davis instructions, I too had a heart scan and had
Zero plaque.  I am 61 years old and
have improved from Osteoporosis to
Osteopenia in my bone density, mostly from the strontium.....Kathy

Whenever I see Sally Field's Boniva commericals on TV in which she proclaims, "I thought taking Vitamin D and calcium were enough to stop my bone loss, come to find out, they weren't enough," I can't help but ask (aloud), "yea? How much D were you taking?"

I get embarrassed for her.

Docs in our area (FPs and specialists), while now starting to pay more attention to Vitamin D, still take shots at us for recommending Vitamin D over fosomax, boniva, etc. They feel it's unethical.

We press right on, though.

@ Jessica, I truly want to throw something at the TV when I see her
commercials!  LOL
As "they say"
KNOWLEDGE is POWER!  Kathy

"Coronary atherosclerotic plaque and bone health are intimately interwoven. People who have coronary plaque usually have osteoporosis; people who have osteoporosis usually have coronary plaque. (The association is strongest in females.) The worse the osteoporosis, the greater the quantity of coronary plaque, and vice versa. The two seemingly unconnected conditions share common causes and thereby respond to similar treatments. "


mmmkay you just scared the lving bee--geeez out of me. i have osteoporosis and am only 24 yrs old, recovering anorexic now weight restored

i do have joint bone pain and problms however. i do take D, mag and my K is way over 100% DV eveyday(gimme my greens). not sure where my potassium falls

so is a hih fat high meat diet goodfor osteoporosis or not? i am no very 'schooled' about acid-alkaline stuff

"Coronary atherosclerotic plaque and bone health are intimately interwoven. People who have coronary plaque usually have osteoporosis; people who have osteoporosis usually have coronary plaque. (The association is strongest in females.) The worse the osteoporosis, the greater the quantity of coronary plaque, and vice versa. The two seemingly unconnected conditions share common causes and thereby respond to similar treatments. "


mmmkay you just scared the lving bee--geeez out of me. i have osteoporosis and am only 24 yrs old, recovering anorexic now weight restored

i do have joint bone pain and problms however. i do take D, mag and my K is way over 100% DV eveyday(gimme my greens). not sure where my potassium falls

so is a hih fat high meat diet goodfor osteoporosis or not? i am no very 'schooled' about acid-alkaline stuff

Malpaz, I am so proud of you I can't STAND it!  You go girl!
I've been told once DX'd with Osteoporosis- it will ALWAYS show up in your records, but you CAN reverse it!  Read everything you can get your hands on including everything Dr.
Davis told us here.  Weight training
should be a #1 goal.  It is my
understanding that high fat, ADEQUATE
protein does NOT promote bone loss,
as long as you are eating lots of
non acidic foods too! Make sure you K vitamins, and magnesium and D3
are what Dr. Davis recommends AND
FISH OIL!!!  Kathy

Kathy - I am in my 50s and have osteoporosis. Here in the UK I have been prescribed Strontium Ranelate for over three and a half years now. No side effects and bone density increasing. The company that make it tell me that they are following women prescribed it for over eight years now - so long term studies are done on it.

I have great news!

I belong to an osteoporosis forum, and a large group of us has been committed to reversing our osteoporosis without using drugs. We have compiled all the credible research we could find on reducing bone loss while also forming strong new healthy bone architecture and started our own bone-health programs---much of what Dr. Davis advocates here plus some other protocols such as the Prune Study and osteo-specific exercises.

These programs ARE WORKING! at least 40 of us in just this one year have reversed our bone loss without drugs, and actually made increases in our BMD.  (I had a 10-year documented continual loss of BMD and this year gained 3%!!)

Here is the link to our success stories and the protocols we have been using.  Some are adding strontium citrate, but others  such as myself have had success without the strontium. As Dr. Davis states, achieving optimum D levels played a big part. You will need to click on the Part ! link to read all the back stories--- Part 2 is the current new updated thread just started.
http://www.inspire.com/groups/national-osteoporosis-foundation/discussion/success-stories-w-o-drugs-part-2/

A while back, Dr. Davis advised me to try magnesium for my long-standing arrhythmia, which worked magnificently in stopping it, but also was a big part to reversing my bone loss--magnesium, K2, vitamin D, and calcium all have an intricate relationship in transporting calcium and bone minerals safely and effectively to where they belong instead of in tissues, joints, and heart valves.
Warm regards,  Catherine/Santa Fe

Kathy, you are so correct about reading everything you can get your hands on. I have osteopenia (strong family history) and have been taking Boniva for over two years. I upped my vitamin D, and added 5-10 mgs of Vitamin K2 earlier in the year, along with 400 magnesium and fish oil.

I get a bone scan next week, and am very nervous about it. I am hoping I have improvement so I can get off the Boniva and maintain bone density with the vitamins.

By the way Dr. Davis, I am fairly certain I have a polymophism of my Vitamin D receptor. Do you know if that could play a role? Chris Kessler did an excellent post on it a few weeks ago.
            -Melissa

Catherine, thank you for posting that information, what great news! Would you mind telling me how much K and magnesium you take? Do you take the potassium that Dr. Davis recommends also?
            -Melissa

Melissa don't expect your doc
to tell you to stop taking the Boniva!
My OB/GYN was content to let me die on the stuff it was my primary care
doc that said she wanted me off of it!
(Course she was the same one that
did not want me on the strontium) :-(
Listen to your heart- if your bone
density has improved get off the stuff
and use the new tools your are acquiring!  )  Kathy

Kathy, thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure about my gyn who prescribed it, but my internist did say that if bone density returned to normal, it would be possible to go off. While not horrible, I do have side effects. And then there's possible long term side effects...
           -Melissa

Dr. Davis,

I can't tell you how encouraging this is that YOU TOO are seeing reversal of bone loss with these protocols. As I mentioned in my post above, we are trying to assemble these success stories which are plentiful but spread out all over the internet and not easily accessible in any sort of organized way.

It would be so helpful if you would encourage any of your patients who've had success reversing their bone loss on these protocols to post their stories on the thread I posted above, which is from the National Osteoporosis Foundation's osteo forum---where most osteo patients end up when looking for good info.
I know there are tons of these success stories that are just not getting reported. And regular doctors don't even seem interested in these successes (mine wasn't-but was VERY interested on putting me on  osteo drugs).
Thank God their are a few doctors like yourself who are actually awake at the wheel.
Warm regards, Catherine/Sante Fe

wow kathy, thanks for the encouragement! that means a lot. i will get to reading... i do keep my diet high fat but i am currently stressing about fertility as it has been a LONG while since i have menstruated(6-7 years)

i cant afford a bone scan, hormone tests, thyroid or blood work like i need so i am hoping keeping paleo/primal and lots of adequate food is going to help me. glad to know at least ONE part of this is reversible as i am now left with alot of baggage

Hi, Anne and Kathy--

There are indeed solid data on the use of the trace mineral, strontium, as a means to increase bone density.

However, since my focus is heart disease, this is the one agent I've had no experience using.

If anyone chooses to use strontium, please let come back and let us know how your experience goes.

Catherine from Santa Fe--

Thanks for the links to the osteoporosis forums. It's great to hear others are witnessing similar results!


Luming--

Thanks for highlighting how important it is to be careful with potassium.

In fact, it is wise to occasionally have a potassium and a creatinine level checked to be sure that potassium is not accumulating.

The dose I recommended is very modest. Accumulation is highly unlikely unless kidney disease or some other uncommon conditions are present.

Malpaz you didn't pack those "bags" overnight and you won't unpack them
that fast either.  One day at a time and you will get where you want to go!
Be patient with yourself!   Kathy

Hi Dr. Davis,

Another great post, educating as always--my mother kind of freaked out when I showed her this, but once she realized she's taking everything you've suggested to combat her osteoporosis, she was able to breathe again (LOL)

Here's my slightly off-topic question for you: In your experience in your practice, have you ever seen a patient's problem parathyroid (hypo or hyper) resolve with the addition of vitamin D to his/her diet?  Have you ever had a patient one step away from a parathyroid surgery, only to have the problem clear up when proper vitamin D levels were obtained?  I'm wondering if alot of patients suffer with above normal calcium reading in their blood work because of this?

Thanks again for all you do,
Adam Wilk

Perhaps the fear of potassium poisoning is overblown? One serving of low sodium V-8 contains 800 mg of potassium from potassium chloride.

I've been experimenting with topical magnesium lately (Mg sulfate cream and MgCl2 brine aka magnesium oil). It seems to be working. One thing I've noticed since starting taking magnesium (oral and topical) is about a 50 point drop in total cholesterol from 240 to 190.

You forgot to mention, for those new to this site, that not all vitamin D is the same. They ONLY want D3 (cholecalciferol) gelcaps, not the nearly useless D2 (ergocalciferol) that gets added to milk.

tI have seen jaw necrosis up close and in person and believe me, you do not want it!

No need to have "normal"t bone density to get off Boniva, very few doctors will tell you to stop.  You can just stop whenever you want to!

There is little to no correlation between bone density and fracture rate anyway, it is a scam to sell the drugs.  Quality bone is what you want so alkaline diet and supps as outlined and plenty of weight bearing exercise, esp pumping iron.  No coffee, no sodas, no smoking...t

It should also be noted that calcium supplementation can significantly compete with magnesium in absorption and utilization.

There really should be no reason to supplement calcium if you eat plenty of vegetables, especially the dark green leafy kind, or if dairy is part of your regular diet.

If you find that you need to supplement calcium, try to take it in the middle of the day, and take the magnesium in the morning and at bed time.

@malpaz: You wrote "i do have joint bone pain and problms however. i do take D, mag and my K is way over 100% DV eveyday(gimme my greens)."

The K in greens is K1 and not K2, not the same thing. The Japanese studies were done with the MK4 form of K2 (as used in the Thorne drops or Carlson Labs products).

@ Steven!  What brand of transdermal
magnesium are you using?  I am interested for my husband who I FINALLY convinced to get off statins!
He had a zero heart scan score score and yet his doc
STILL had him on statins!  Thanks!
Kathy

Dr. Davis - I love your blog.  Thank you for providing it for us. I have read the comment regarding carbonation and bone loss several times. I always wondered if it is the carbonation in particular that is the culprit, or the sugars, additives etc. that exist in most soft drinks. There seems to be some confusion regarding this. I love carbonated waters, flavored seltzers with no sugar, artificial or otherwise. Are they included in the carbonated beverages you mention as being detrimental?

Dr. Davis, Denise Minger has published the first part of her analysis of wheat, and it is positively bone-chilling.

You were way, way ahead of the curve on this one!

Wheat Is Murder: The China Study, Wheat, and Heart Disease

Hi, Adam--

I have indeed seen mild hyperparathyroidism (high PTH) improve or resolve entirely with vitamin D supplementation.


Kris-

This applies to all carbonated beverages, since they are all rich in carbonic acid.

Hi Dr. Davis - Wanted to share my story of calcium overdose. Was told to take 2000 vitamin D but my doctor didn't mention to avoid the D+Calcium brands. I took in a lot of calcium for about 2 weeks and then had painful digestive symptoms and off and on paralyzing pain in my right leg and neck. My doctor's RN was the one who figured it out. After I searched online about calcium supplements and found your blog. I read on and  have cut out 75% of carbs from my diet. Feeling great for a month now. Thanks for what you do.

Dr Mercola Finally Starts to Catch on to Gluten Free

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/09/03/media-finally-starts-to-catch-on-to-gluten-free.aspx

My mother took Fosamax for years.  She developed acute myeloid leukemia and her bone marrow was shot.  On reading your latest post, Dr Davis, I've begun to wonder if side effects of the drug could go deeper than the bone.

Nina

Well I've answered my own question with a Google search:

http://www.topix.com/forum/drug/fosamax/TSK1OBBDLMJ0EJSQ9

It never occurred to me that Fosamax could cause such devastation until your comment about jaw disintegration, Dr Davis.

Nina

In today's news is a British study of standard osteoporosis drugs and esophogeal cancers:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6816HF20100902

Nina

I don't believe there is any truth to the concept that an acidifying diet promotes osteoporesis, at least as far as protein intake is concerned (I won't go so far as to defend the drinking of phosphoric acid, i.e., sodas).  Numerous studies have shown that increased calcium excretion in urine (observed on higher protein diets) is not due to calcium loss from bone, but rather due to increased calcium absorption.  See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20717017 "Contrary to the supposed detrimental effect of protein, the majority of epidemiological studies have shown that long-term high-protein intake increases bone mineral density and reduces bone fracture incidence. The beneficial effects of protein such as increasing intestinal calcium absorption and circulating IGF-I whereas lowering serum parathyroid hormone sufficiently offset any negative effects of the acid load of protein on bone health."

Cynthia

still waiting for doctors to catch onto vaccine free life after the gluten free diet!

Does plain carbonated water (soda water) have an effect on pH or just carbonated soft drinks?

Hello, I'm from Brazil.
I found your website and wanted to ask, please, for that added the link to my blog for disclosure in order to be partners.
Already added your on my list of partners, ok?
My blog is about technology, science and health: http://www.biomedicinaunip.blogspot.com
Thanks!

Dr. Davis, how can the foods we eat shift our body's pH balance toward net acid?

As I understand it, if our blood strays very far from pH 7.4 ("a slightly net alkaline body pH") we will not be osteopenic. We will be dead.

If I'm remembering my physiology correctly, acidic food may affect our tooth enamel, but once the digested food reaches our blood and tissues, the body is well able to buffer it to a very tight pH range regardless of the pH it may have had in its original form.

Dr Davis,

One of the many sports drink-type beverages in Japan is called Dakara. It contains no sodium, but 180 mg of calcium, 60 mg of magnesium, and 500 mg of potassium per liter.

I took potassium tablets for a while a few years ago but found that, even on a full stomach, they messed with my digestion and I gave them up. As an alternative, do you think this Dakara, maybe a 500 mg bottle a day, might be OK? (It does contain sucralose, which might present other problems, though.)

Any other ways to take potassium?

Osteoporosis is another disease of civilization caused by insulin interference with calcium metabolism.

Whatever else you do, you're pushing a rock uphill unless you kick the carb habit.

Hi, Cynthia--

I believe that you are correct: Protein sources, such as meats, have complex effects beyond acidification. That's why meats consumers have greater bone density because of some bone growth-enhancing effect, e.g., insulin-like growth factor.

I believe that it's the grains that upset the dietary pH apple cart, providing an acid load that must be buffered but lacking the bone density enhancing effects of animal proteins.

Dr Davis,  Didn't really understand your statement about protein.  Should I be limiting my protein intake due to my osteoporosis or not?  

The endocrinologist today told me that she doubts that I can totally reverse my osteoporosis.  She thinks I can make a small reversal.  Do you think it's possible to totally reverse osteo?  Thank you!

Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

Your article is truly informative. Many women today suffer from osteoporosis. I've read some articles about preventing it by taking enough calcium so our bones will get stronger.

Back pain is also one of the common ailments of aged people. Causes of back pain are Lumbar Muscle Strain, Ruptured Disc, Discogenic Back Pain, etc. Some people who suffer back pain visit a chiropractor. Brooklyn Center (MN) is one of areas known for good chiropractic treatments. Just last year, my mom had back pain. She went to a chiropractic (Brooklyn Center MN) clinic to have some consultations. After her sessions, she started feeling the improvements.

I’ve been a regular face at the hospital to get treatment for my condition. After a very long time, I kind of almost gave up. Then one of my friends introduced me to Purity 12 products. I said to myself, how can this be a solution to my problems? He encouraged me to try it first and that there’s no harm in trying anyway, and he told me that he’s been using their products and made a business out of it.  As a friend, he bought some products for me as a gift so I could try them. Now, I’m really thankful that I received this gift. It’s been the best gift I have ever received since. I feel better, a lot more energetic and like I’m a totally new person! It’s really important to me to be able to share my story with you because I also want people like me to make this discovery and make their lives finally better!  If you want to know more about them, everything is on their website. Learn More

If someone can't get enough magnesium from their diet, then they should change their diet. I just don't think supplemental magnesium is wise if someone has a basically normal diet. Besides, magnesium chelate is not food magnesium. I do think D3 and MK-7 are a good idea for many people.

I am late reading this blog and want to know if taking vitamin K2 would interfer with taking the occassional asprin - 81mg which I do take from time to time but not daily.

I did not see you mention anything about that in your blog.

you said: "Animal products are acidic, vegetables and fruits are alkaline."

Now I have read this for the last 20 years - but have never found any scientific research about it. Maybe you could enlighten me with some links - or facts?

Many thanks - by the way I love your blog - as does my doctor

Good to know what is going to help the body recover and heal.A healthy body is more than a gift of nature and no ones knows it more than the ailing.Vitamins are present in various fruits and vegetable so we must pay attention to what exactly we are eating.

@ Melissa,
I'm really late jumping in here and you may not even check this but I have to tell you this. I have osopenia and NOT one of my doctors ever suggested putting me on any type of meds. I was to supplement with cal, and vit D. The ironically, they also didn't bother to tell me how to take the dosage. I didn't know your body can only absorb 500 mg at a time. I was advised to go to a endocrinologist and did. your doc they put you on it to begin with.I would highly recommend going to an endocrinologist..
Julie

The AlgaeCal Bone Health Program is a natural <a href="http://www.algaecal.com/osteoporosis-treatment.html>osteoporosis treatment</a> that combines all of the above advice.This natural osteoporosis treatment consists of AlgaeCal Plus, Strontium Boost and weight bearing exercise.

AlgaeCal Plus is the world's only plant source calcium and It also includes magnesium, trace minerals, vitamin D3 and vitamin k2. Strontium Boost is a supplement consisting of strontium citrate, learn more about strontium, a powerful bone building mineral.

Would anyone be able to tell me where I can get the vitamins and supplements Dr Davis suggests? I live in the UK and have done an internet search with no success. I have just been diagnosed with osteoporosis and don't like the sound of most of the treatment drugs available.

Nice post about vitamins and minerals . Magnesium oxide is also very good for our body's healthy functionality.

Dr. Davis:

what relationships, if any, exist between the nutritional history you've depicted in your post and pancreatic cancer.

Is there any way to heal our pancreas? I have a friend with pancreatic cancer and it's incredibly painful. I would love some preventative care for myself if you have any tips.
Jana

Pretty good advice, doctor.

The Centers for Disease Control has predicted that one of every three Americans born in 2000 will eventually develop diabetes (mostly type 2).  Your dietary advice, along with regular exercise and avoidance of obesity, would prevent many cases.

-Steve

Great article! Yes, our pancreas is neglected badly. It is working hard, day in, day out and we don't even notice this hard labor.
One can measure if the pancreas is still working ok by measuring "C-Peptid". A sensitive marker of insulin production. Mine is 1.0 (a little low), so I want to support my pancreas.
Does anybody know how to increase or re-generate beta-cells?
There is a herb (among others), called GYMNEMA SYLVESTRE that has supposedly regenerative capabilites. Has anybody tried this?
Thanks.

Doctor Davis:
No rice or potatoes?  Are you advocating a zero carb (except carbs found in veggies and fruit)?  Many of us are allergic to nuts so foods like walnuts are out, but peanuts are ok since they are legumes, but many seem to say stay away from them.  Be helpful to get more detail on your daily diet suggestions.

Thanks!

Doesn't the pancreas work to produce insulin and glucogen even on low-carb meals?  I thought the problem with high-carb diets was the elevated level of insulin in the blood and the various metabolic syndrome problems that causes, not necessarily that it overworks the pancreas.

Agreed!  Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there the a danger that as a person gains weight and the body is experiencing continuing high insulin levels, some tissues become insulin resistant, so the pancreas is forced to produce  even more insulin to keep the glucose levels in the blood under control.  That, I understand, becomes a  "slippery slope" and difficult to recover from.  I don't mean to be alarmist - but it is downright scary.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Via current clinical (testing) methods by the time someone is diagnosed with Type 2 #diabetes, 50% of their beta cells are already destroyed. http://goo.gl/MAhVU

It's mostly the overwork, here's a little known pancreas fact: "Only 1% of the beta cells in the pancreas are devoted to producing insulin for handling sugars, 99% of the pancreas is devoted to handling the digestion of fats and proteins."   http://goo.gl/WlLML  and  http://goo.gl/wUcEB  

From Wikipedia: "The islets of Langerhans constitute approximately 1 to 2% of the mass of the pancreas. There are about one million islets in a healthy adult human pancreas, which are distributed throughout the organ; their combined mass is 1 to 1.5 grams."   And in rats, only 65 to 80% of those cells are devoted to producing insulin & amylin.  http://goo.gl/3zrHa

So when you consider these facts along with what Dr Jack Kruse says: "Via current clinical (testing) methods by the time someone is diagnosed with Type 2 #diabetes, 50% of their beta cells are already destroyed.", then YES, BABY YOUR PANCREAS!!   http://goo.gl/MAhVU

FWIW: I was spiking to 185-210 at one hour post prandial on Dr Fuhrman's greens/beans etc diet.  I added Gymnema from Pure Encapsulations Gymnema sylvestre extract (leaf) (75%)250 mg, one capsule, 3X/day and after about 5 months my highest spikes have been in the low 120's after BIG meals, same diet, no grains but plenty of fruit and some root veg and lots of beans.  Even a good sized serving of oatmeal only get my sugar reading to the mid 120's. Seems to me, likely some beta cell rejuvenation has gone on.  How much the gymnema and how much the diet is anybody's guess.

Agreed! And it's why I eat only 1-2 meals most days. AND ... very low carb.

Usually sub 20g of carbs per day!

Baby that THANG!

Could a high SHBG level be caused by a worn out pancreas?

Oops, wrong quote.  here's the right one.    "In addition, glucose sticks to proteins in the blood (glycosylation). These glycosylated proteins are sticky and slow down the blood flow through the capillaries and veins, preventing oxygenation. It has been shown that people with diabetes have higher rates of cancer and mortality due to cancer as compared to those without diabetics. The strongest correlation was for pancreatic cancer. Notably, it has been found that the higher the fasting glucose one has, the higher the risk for cancer."  http://goo.gl/PnJoU

Also see the article Tom Naughton wrote on his Fat Head blog about ‘Super-Sticky’ Cholesterol and Diabetics here:  http://goo.gl/JTi75

There's no evidence that using your pancreas is what leads to reductions in beta cell mass and function.   Have you looked at any of the peer review research demonstrating that drugs like Byetta can actually increase beta cell mass and increase insulin sensitivity?

2,000 - 3,000 Beta cell work to coordinate insulin put out every +/- 4 minutes; post-prandial there is a 1st response insulin spike, then smaller steady secretion, and in time a lesser 2nd insulin spike.  Some Type 2 diabetics don't  put out the 1st insulin spike, their blood sugar stays high and then eventually they do put out that late 2nd insulin spike.

"Amylin"  or IAPP (islet amyloid poly-peptide) is co-secreted with all insulin;  if  "amylin" goes on oligomerize into a  tangle of fibrils around the individual Beta cells this messes with their signal synchronization.  As the "amylin" kinks up with other amylin the Beta cells are pushed apart and those Beta cells change size; without Beta cell group co-ordination the individual cells' mitochondrial house keeping repairs risks compounding recycling errors and that cell goes into programmed cell death (apoptosis).

Zinc is what binds to an individual "amylin" fibril  in a central position and keeps that fibril from oligomerizing with other fibrils; too little zinc in pancreas lets tangles occur. Yet too much zinc in pancreas also lets tangling get going; this is due to when a 2nd zinc clings elsewhere on  the same fibril the first zinc already is bound to.  See  recent "Journal Molecular Biology", vol 410, 2, 294-306

Do you have a reference for that? Not a mouse study. Thanks.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110624/very-low-calorie-diet-may-reverse-diabetes

Damned interesting study if it bears out. It seems that a couple months of hard starvation lowers fat levels in the pancreas and can actually reverse diabetes, at least in people who are not too far along in the disease process.

It does not take anything like the starvation in the above linked study to reverse insulin resistance and effectively eliminate T2 diabetes.  There are a number of doctors who have been having that result for many years w/ a lowish fat, plant based diet, eliminating REFINED carbs, animal fat, saturated fat, and manufactured junk food.  See Fuhrman, McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn, Shitani, etc. They all have books out and a track record easy to find.

Now I have Weird Al Yankovic's song "Pancreas" going through my head...

No need to starve to "cure" type 2 diabetes.  Just cut the carbohydrates, particularly the starchy kinds from grains, legumes, and potatoes.  No need to eliminate animal fat/sat fat, either. Natural fats have no effect on blood glucose and do not stimulate insulin production.  If you eliminate all the things Fuhrman et al say to eliminate, there isn't much left to eat and you will end up on a starvation diet anyway!

Might some of Doc's diabetics be getting their relief from eliminating wheat be due to more zinc absorption (and thus less "amylin" tangles) ? In theory  phytates  have the potential to excessively bind up zinc; although I hesitate to say one scenario fits all situations.

Zinc deficiency in the pancreas is hard to assess, since we use zinc all over ; specific tissue levels are a guess,  because we are physiologically designed to keep a baseline amount of zinc in our blood. In other words,  zinc can actually be retrieved from body tissue and put back into circulation;  maybe  some individuals have a disposition to leach zinc out of their pancreas and then their "amylin"  tangling worsens.  Constant adult doses of over 100 mg per day really merits caution and, aside from other side effects, may tag "amylin" fibrils with 2nd zinc that provokes  "amylin" tangles; I am not suggesting any specific dosage for anyone here.  

Meanwhile,  other individuals possibly avoid Beta cell death due to genetic propensity to maintain enough zinc in their pancreas;   and,  also some may have gut bacteria strains that slowly pass the  intestine zinc the bacteria cleaved from phytates' hold.  Not every overweight person, nor  grain/legume/nut phytate  consumer goes on to develop diabetes; there may just be some age related Beta cell decline  that is normal and not pathological.

The whole notion of beta cell regeneration, while tantalizing, is uncharted territory. I propose carb-limitation not so much for its beta cell regenerating potential, but for its ability to simply not challenge a compromised pancreas.

Might-o-chondrial's proposal that grain phytates block absorption of zinc is interesting. However, I don't know how much of a genuine role it plays in the entire picture. I can say that the end clinical effects include HbA1c's of 5.0 or less, fasting glucoses of 90 mg/dl or less.

"If you eliminate all the things Fuhrman et al say to eliminate, there isn’t much left to eat and you will end up on a starvation diet anyway!"

Lack of imagination/creativity is a terrible thing.  The only thing Fuhrman et al say to eliminate is manufactured, highly processed, refined, chemicalized, "food like substances" (that are not really food at all).  I eat basic Fuhrman diet and can easily adjust my calorie intake up or down by 1000 calories or more just by substituting higher or lower calorie density real foods.  It isn't difficult, and even at lower calorie intake, no sense of deprivation at all after the first bit of breaking addictions and retuning taste buds.

60 - 80% of new Type 1 diabetics show anti-bodies for Zinc Transporter 8; there are 10 different zinc transporters (ZnT) in mammals.  ZnT works with the movement of zinc from a cell's cytoplasm to sites of action inside that cell and also moves zinc outside that cell (bringing zinc into cell is not directly mediated by ZnT).

A genetic polymorphism of ZnT 8 (SLC 30A8  rs13266634) causes less pro-insulin made into insulin (crystalization of insulin for stockpiling  involves zinc)  and when high blood sugar malfunctions;  if less insulin
stash in insulin storage granules then it's secretion on instant demand (ex: 1st post-prandial insulin pulse)  is impaired.  Normally lots of ZnT 8 is active in pancreatic  Beta cells and actually prevents Beta cells from dying off due to zinc deficiency;  as well  as  lots of ZnT 8 activity expression inducing more  insulin put out in response to blood glucose loads.

High blood glucose down-regulates ZnT8 and , on the contrary, up-regulates ZnT 3;  Doc is right to be concerned with excessive post-prandial blood sugar because ZnT3 and ZnT8  have different dynamics.  ZnT3 is linked to amyloid tangling in the brain (hippocampus has lots of ZnT3) and recent research find it is active in the pancreatic islets; so I wonder if it's transporter genetics (gene SLC 30A3) is how  zinc becomes a problem outside the cell,  and integral to how "amylin" fibrils then can kink into tangled oligomers that push Beta cells too far apart.

Sshort-term supplementation with cholecalciferol improves β cell function
Effects of vitamin D and calcium supplementation on pancreatic {beta} cell function, insulin sensitivity, and glycemia in adults at high risk of diabetes
Perhaps if they'd used 5000iu/d the results would have been even better as Dr Cannell suggests here

Improving melatonin secretion (or using a time release supplement) may also be worthwhile to protect pancreatic function.

Did they need to be starved as well. Surely just reducing the carb would have sufficed?

Glad to see T. H.  back .... for Melatonin synthesis we use zinc and taking zinc raises one's melatonin output (2003  journal Acta Physiologica Hungarica, 90(4),335-339).  Pancreatic lipase enzymes that help cleave fat we've eaten also  uses zinc.

I have no zinc guide lines for anyone, and definitely  am not claiming zinc is the only relevant parameter in pancreatic dynamics.  For home evaluation  of zinc status please see Dr. Dereck Bryce-Smith's  "ZTT"  technique; it is a 10 second mouth swish of 2 teaspoons of zinc sulfate mono-hydrate and how one's response ranges in four gradients  going from tasteless to metallic.

Fuhrman? Have you seen how he handles commenters on his site that challenge anything he says. He responds like a childish buffoon. Besides he is very much anti animal fat and anti saturated fat. No thanks.

I am just about convinced that I have experienced some amount of beta cell duplication as a result of many months of low carb dieting, as noted in an earlier post by Might-o in March regarding the formation of new, larger beta cells in the absence of hyper-glycemia.  After trying many diets to address my type 2 diabetes, I settled on a low carb diet of 65% fat 25% protien and 10% carb after extensive research on the effects of the different micronutrients on blood sugar.  For almost a year, my A1C has been 5.4, and I lost 40 lbs in that time period.

However, after feeling that I had lost some strength in weightlifting, I did some additional research on maintaining strength while on a low-carb diet, and it was suggested that on weekends, to eat anywhere from 100-500 grams of carbs to restore my glycogen levels.  To make a long story short, I ate half of a large pizza, and tested my blood glucose before and one hour after.  Before, it was 82mg/dl.  After? 67 mg/dl.  I tested this again the next day with a few tacos, which would have normally shot my blood glucose numbers in the 100's and it produced the same effect.  

One concern that I have is that my pancreas is producing excessive insulin, which is a problem for us diabetics who have been abusing our pancreas for so many years.   However, I believe that I have recovered some insulin sensitivity by giving my pancreas a rest and keeping my insulin levels low.  Does that mean that I'm cured and I should start gorgeing on pizza, cakes, sodas, french fries, mashed potatoes, pancakes and fried chicken like I used to? (I know, I brought diabetes on to myself)  The answer is no.  But it is a good idea to preserve our existing working beta cells by giving it a rest.

Some nutritionists & dietitians recommend no more than 10 or 12 teaspoons of  *added*  sugar a day, as in addition to your regular daily diet, others say 10 to 12 teaspoons total sugars per day, with no additional.

Since only 1 percent of your pancrease is used to produce insulin to process blood sugars, and since the average human body contains 5 liters of blood which is equal to around 1000 teaspoons, and a homeostatic fasted blood sugar level of 60 to 90 mg. per deciliter equates to a little less than 1 teaspoon, the theory is the less sugar consumed is the better option.  A handy formula to memorize is the 1-5-20 rule, which means 1 teaspoon of sugar equals 5 grams which equals 20 calories, then just do a little multiplication or division to convert the grams & calories of carbs on food labels into a teaspoon equivalent that's easier to wrap your brain around, and as a good visual aid to understand how much glucose you're dumping on your pancreas all at once.

I seriously doubt Dr. Davis advocates *NO* carbs, very few people that understand how to exploit the macronutrients do, especially doctors.  Most people have poor long term results & can't sustain a food denial strategy, so rather than think in terms of carb denial it's better to just have limited amounts of the carbs you like while keeping in mind the total glucose content, glycemic index and glycemic load of those foods and the stress placed on your pancreas by overindulging.

There's a great carb intake chart over on Mark Sisson's website that explains the optimum carb intake levels, to see it scroll down the page here:  http://goo.gl/CYD1n

Just remember that carbs have 4 calories per gram, so to get the total calories by carbs per day just multiply the grams by 4.

Good advice, as usual.

I was wondering if you could plan a future post around Microvascular Disease, particularly in women.  I understand the symptoms are different, and was hoping that you may be able to shed light on which lifestyle factors are most effective.  I'm seeing more and more thin, active women (many younger than 65) with "perfect" lipids in cardiac rehab.

I have been taking metformin for polycystic ovarian syndrome. I have been low-carb/primal for a year now. Blood work (sugar and trig/hdl) look great. Any idea what I am doing to my pancreas by continuing the metformin? I have already decreased the dose since my blood sugar was getting too low. How do I know if I don't need to take it anymore? I am not taking metformin to control blood sugar.

Thank you for the valuable  information Dr. Davis.  I am using much of it.

Another way to baby your pancreas is to avoid, where possible, dysglycemic drugs--two examples include: quinolines (antimalarials) and fluoroquinolones (FQs, e.g. ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin, moxifloxacin).  Bactericidal antibiotics produce more oxidative stress than do bacteriostatic antibiotics.  FQs produce a lot of oxidative stress, probably more than others and they are handed out like candy.  FQs also deplete and mutate mammalian mitochondria.  

Interestingly, B-cells in the  pancreas have very low levels of antioxidant enzymes (glutathione peroxidase and catalase both mop up reactive oxygen species)  comprising only 1% of the levels in the liver.   This favors H2O2 accumulation which can mess up H2O2 signal transduction.

I wonder why our pancreas B-cells  do not have more antioxidant protection than do cells in the liver?  Maybe the difference is the amount of zinc and iron between the pancreas and liver?  Zinc is a potent antioxidant by itself and a cofactor for the third major antioxidant enzyme of our bodes--super oxidase dismutase.  Iron is highly risky for oxidative stress particularly in combination with a hydroxyl radical--this is an explosive combination.

How much the rapid increase in diabetes is associated with  the overuse of prescription medications that are tough on the pancreas?

I have references for all of the above if anyone is interested.

Hi Redd,
You may be interested that it is MnSOD (manganese superoxide dismutase) which makes risky super-oxide molecules into molecules of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide); the net effect of having more MnSOD activity is lower levels of super-oxide but more H2O2.

"I ate half of a large pizza, and tested my blood glucose before and one hour after. Before, it was 82mg/dl. After? 67 mg/dl. I tested this again the next day with a few tacos, which would have normally shot my blood glucose numbers in the 100′s and it produced the same effect."
Hope you have previously tested those same foods at 30 minute intervals because blood glucose peak timing can vary greatly depending on specific food/meal and individual physiology. Pizza is one of the worst for long delayed but very high peak

I want to print this out and post it on the wall of my office.  You have made clear what I have been trying to articulate for years. The labels do not always tell the truth. And ultimately it goes back to money. Thank you.

Hi Dr. Davis,

What is the maximum postprandial glucose level that we can see without seeing increased risk of heart/diabetes problems? I thought I saw 120 mg/dl somewhere. Is that it? It's hard to keep track of hundreds of blogs. I just learned about Heart Scan Blog last week.

I have tested my postprandial glucose per your suggestion, and it has been very helpful, but I wanted to note that neither oatmeal (1/2 cup dry) or bananas & apples raise my blood sugar above 115.

Truly normal, non-diabetic people will rarely if ever see a postprandial glucose peak much above 125, even with Cheerios.

Postprandial hyperglycemia is widespread in populations eating an industrial diet. Those of us who have been officially diagnosed with diabetes are just the tip of the iceberg.

It is interesting that you confirm that thin slender people which  you identify as "Lp(a)" types are so much less tolerant against high refined carbohydrates!

  In my subjective observation some of the most robust people on the standard (high carb medium fat) diet are of heavy set build ( Kapha/Phlegmatic).  

They are able to easily increase their adipose tissue which probably is their main defense against high blood glucose.

This protection comes at the price of putting up weight, sometimes a lot of weight. In some  rare cases their body weight can grow above 500lb before this protection mechanism stops, their adipose tissue stops expanding, and then - and only then - they get diabetes!  Not before, not while their fatty tissue is still growing!

In my personal opinion the only difference between the heavy set type people and us ("ascetic" body types) is that our adipose tissue is for some reason (genetic?) incapable of growing beyond a minimum (in my case I was only able to put up ~10lb extra at most) therefore our fatty tissue  is not able to scoop up as much excessive glucose out of our bloodstream as their therefore we get diabetes, on a very high refined carb diet, earlier and more severe than them.  

Our ONLY defense is as you have found too - minimize consumption of high carb food such as cereals, wheat, but also fruit and starches! I personally replaced such food with animal fat, eleven years ago and all my health problems, including mild angina, disappeared as if by miracle.

Regards,
Stan (Heretic)

So, Dr. Davis, would you say that one should never have foods that raise blood sugar?  I have a 1/2 banana and rice cake post workout with protein. Do you think I should stop this practice?

I might add that the Thanksgiving post-feast lethargy, conventionally attributed to tryptophan-overload, is likely due instead to carb overload (stuffing, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, two helpings of pie). Since I've been low carb, I've generally filled up on turkey and salad at such meals (much more turkey than my dining companions), and also had much more post-prandial energy.

Why in the world would anyone put skim milk in oatmeal (or anything else, for that matter)? Drinking skim milk and consuming lean protein without adequate fat is an excellent way to spike your blood sugar and deplete your body's fat soluble nutrients.  I'd be curious to see how much oatmeal raises blood sugar when eaten with butter and cream. Maybe I'll do that experiment myself.

I forgot to add that I tried cheerios experiment. My BG went from fasting 86 to PPG 140. I do stay active (lifting weights and running) but lately my diet has been terrible past two years. I actually used to follow low to moderate carbohydrates but being married and having an infant to deal with knocked me off the wagon. I recently got back on the wagon but I have to admit it, it has been rough start... Just have to make it to day 14th (I always found it to be much easier after 14th day or so).

Should we check our blood glucose 1 hour after the start of eating, or 1 hour after the end of our meal?

Is this a one-hour reading or a two-hour reading that we're talking about?  And is 120 the best cut off to use?

We have several 'feral' apple trees around the property here. They don't make large fruits, but I've eaten up to 3 at a time (golf ball sized) and they never made me have a +40 spike. Other varieties of large store apples do, however. I was taught that the ADA recommends a 1 hour reading of no more than 180, and a 2 hour reading of no more than 140, where the 'after' reading is also less than 40 points higher than the beginning reading. So if you began at 100, you should never break 140. My standards, however, are quite a bit lower. Bring on the bacon and eggs, and I'll wait until Nature here provides me with small apples.

Technically, if a person gets two random blood sugars over 200 mg/dl it is enough to diagnose them as diabetic. That's according to the diagnostic criteria published by the ultra conservative American Diabetes Association.

Based on the research I've seen on this topic, any blood sugar over 163 mg/dl one hour after eating a high carb meal and/or over 120 mg/dl at two hours after the meal is abnormal.

Truly normal people will be back into the mid 80s two hours after eating a high carb meal. Their highest blood sugar will be about 120, which not so incidentally, is the level at which the incretin hormones seem to kick in and stimulate insulin release.

Dr. Davis, love the blog, am learning lots. And per your suggestion, have picked up a blood glucose meter to check how I respond to various carbs.

Just a minor title quibble tho. Are there really a lot of people eating oatmeal, Cheerios, apples or bananas that think they are low-carb?

Amused and surprised that you have Quaker Oats ads running between your posts...flashing images of huge bowls of oatmeal filled with fruit.  I know it costs money to run a blog but how about screening advertisers to those who promote what you believe in and are advising folks to do?

Yes, it does show how corporate America lies to the public, but in a way you are assisting them with a platform.  Would you accept ads from Lovaza, Niaspan, etc?  

I guess it demonstrates why doctors partner with big pharma and others even when they know it's not beneficial...$$$.

Amused and surprised that you have Quaker Oats ads running between your posts...flashing images of huge bowls of oatmeal filled with fruit.  I know it costs money to run a blog but how about screening advertisers to those who promote what you believe in and are advising folks to do?

Yes, it does show how corporate America lies to the public, but in a way you are assisting them with a platform.  Would you accept ads from Lovaza, Niaspan, etc?  

I guess it demonstrates why doctors partner with big pharma and others even when they know it's not beneficial...$$$.

Tony,

You probably still have an intact glucose regulation system, so your insulin production is robust and your insulin sensitivity is good.  You might be lucky enough to always have intact BG with grains.  

Many don't, though, and furthermore, most don't know it.  Insulin insufficiently and insulin resistance are very, very common.

I know from experience that one can seem to be quite healthy yet BG trouble is brewing below the surface for many years.  Even with a history of gestational diabetes (treated well with a LC diet), my doctors later had no idea how high my post-prandial BG goes (Cheerios can raise it to the mid-200s) because they tend to only suspect BG issues in obese patients and  they only checked FBG, which remain at the high end of normal because of my low carb intake.  

My own testing with Cheerios leads me to view it and other cold breakfast cereals as bowls of predigested sugar that creates roller coaster BG levels that don't feel good at all.  Steel-cut cooked oatmeal result in somewhat less high BG, but it still goes too high for too long.  For my own long-term health, my glucose meter tells me to ditch the cereals.

Those foods you listed Dr. Davis are not low-carb at all. I never eat them. What makes you think those are low-carb? Cheerios? Bananas? Oatmeal?

Switters--

Although I do not advocate using skim milk, most people do. So I chose that because it's so common.


Ellen--

No, I would regard that as a very high-sugar breakfast. It eventually catches up to you.


Beth--

Yes. While YOU may realize they do not belong in a low-carb diet, an incredible number of people think they do.

"Should we check our blood glucose 1 hour after the start of eating, or 1 hour after the end of our meal?"  I am bumping this question up as i would also love to have a definitive answer on it.  I know two people can sit to eat identical meals and one finish in 15 minutes and the other take 45-60.  This would make a large difference in the measurements depending on where you start time "zero"

Oatmeal & banana/blueberries ups my count by only 10 or so, less if I use oat bran; but I always have high-quality whole milk yogurt as the dairy portion.

Is there an A1C level that good glucose control would correspond to, given that your recommendations for post prandial glucose are significantly lower than the usual 140/1hour and 120/2 hour?

Dr Davis: I am confused how large populations of Chinese and Japanese people who eat a high starch diet continue to have relatively low rates of heart disease. I would think that white rice would cause a high post postprandial response.
I enjoy your posts but I need a full explanation to be convinced that you are correct on this point. Very sincerely, Bobby

Ok..., I'm really lost. Recently diagnosed with type 2 on oral meds and Byetta. I don't want my children to follow my path. Thought I was being a good Mom feeding them Cheerios and Oatmeal. So now what??? WHAT DO I FEED THEM???? DR. DAVIS WHERE DO I FIND A DIET PLAN FOR THEM???

I thought oatmeal was ok for some reason, because it's oatmeal, you know like what grandpa ate?
Spiked my sugar to 190.

I haven't eaten cereals, white breads or any potato products only for the last 3 weeks and my blood sugar has responded favorably.
Morning test was usually a 100-105 (yikes) now it's 85-90. I'm not sure of the ideal low end but maybe I can see 70 in a few months.

Great blog on diabetes, Jenny.

I wonder which yields a more accurate view of what's likely to happen as you get older?

Fasting blood sugar.
Post-prandial blood sugar.
Ha1c test.

All of these issues, including when to check blood sugar, what constitutes a desirable number, etc. are all addressed in detail in the Track Your Plaque Special Report, Postprandial Responses:
Part 3 - Carbohydrates and postprandial blood sugar at http://www.trackyourplaque.com/library/fl_04-022postprandialcarbs.asp in the open content section (first 8 or so pages).

Here's a comment on oatmeal - BG before breakfast - 125. Bowl of Quaker weight control Maple and Brown Sugar oatmeal (29 carbs, 6 g fiber, 1g sugar), 1 tablespoon of chia seeds (4 carbs,4 g Fiber), 1 scoop of flax seed (5 carbs, 4 G Fiber). Handful of pecans, splash of 2 percent milk.  BG reading 2 hours later - 181. No doubt, 210+ after an hour, but I didn't check then.  Despite all the fiber and the pecans as a source of fat to slow down the sugar rush, still no go. Moral of this story (for me) - back to eggs and meats.

Dr Davis: I have read the entire report and it doesn't address the issue that was the basis of my question: Why do starch based oriental cultures have a low incidence of heart disease. They also eat a low fat diet.
I look forward to your response. Many thanks, Bobby

Add me to the ranks of the low-carb eaters. I was taking Aciphex for acid reflux and discovered that PPIs have side effects such as osteoporosis, iron deficiency anemia and hip fracture. Other side effects of low stomach acid are too numerous to list here. I stopped taking them and read that high-glycemic foods (read: starchy, sugary carbs like fruit and grains) cause reflux. (See http://heartburncured.com/) By experimenting with my diet the past few days, I've found this to be true. Goodbye, starches and sugars.

I'm making a believer out of my diabetic mom, too. The other day, she had a few bites of a bagel, some apple sauce, oatmeal--and BG of 268. She slept all day, stoned on sugar. Today, after I told her 100 times that it's the carbs, she's having bacon, cottage cheese and an egg--and a lucid state of mind.

Bobby,

It could be that they are not really consuming high amount of starch carbohydrates. Media always made it sound like they consume a lot of carbohydrates but the reality is that they may not really be consuming. However, things are changing as it's cheaper to produce processed foods so things will likely change for those people one day. It could be that they are more active as well slowing down heart disease progression. Cancers may get them first before heart disease happens. It's hard to know unless you actually travel there and observe them in person. It may not be what you think. It's really apple vs orange. Dr. Davis is specifically talking about USA population.

Do you think that postprandial glucose response to a fixed meal is a good way to evaluate the effectiveness of a diet regimen?  I'm wondering how I can compare various diet alternatives (intermittent fasting vs. paleo, for example, because I don't have the willpower to do both) with simple tests.  Blood glucose tests are very appealing to me because they are easy to do at home.

http://patrissimo.livejournal.com/1313795.html

I feel like I am whipping a dead pony here but feel I must repeat this:  Increasing dietary fat increases insulin resistance.  It takes several weeks (at bare minimum 10-14 days) of dietary fat intake of 8-10% (and no more fat than that) for the body to adjust.  Once that happens, your readings will be totally different for a high UNrefined carb meal.  And I must emphasize that only one higher fat meal may re-establish your previous level of insulin resistance for several days to weeks once again.  Eating eggs, meats, high fat diet day after day and then one high carb meal is an altogether different experiment and does not tell you in any way how you would fair on a consistently low fat, high UNrefined carb diet.

Really, once insulin resistance is reduced you will get totally different readings even for a refined carb meal as in a glucose tolerance test.

Bobby,

There's so much more to it than simply the amount of starch in the diet.  Starch is probably fine if the metabolism is functioning as it should.  But western diet and lifestyles often lead to a high amount of metabolic dysfunction, which eventually progresses to impaired glucose (& starch)  tolerance and finally diabetes.  Note that even in industrial Japan (where the diet has changed much in the past several decades), the rate of T2 diabetes incidence is quickly rising in the young.  

This is a huge topic and there isn't enough discussion about it when various "traditional" diets are compared.

Dr. Strange--

Sorry, but I don't buy it.

I've seen the opposite effect play out countless times: High fasting glucoses and high postprandial glucoses normalize with reductions in carbohydrates, increases in fats.

I saw this effect in myself over 15 years ago when I was diabetic. Now, I am no longer diabetic due to increased fats, dramatically reduced carbohydrates.

Bobby--

Perhaps a topic for a future discussion.

Being part Japanese, I can tell you that rice is typicaly eaten sprinkled with rice vinegar. That alone can modify glycemic responses.

Also, I don't believe that the Japanese diet is that high-carbohydrate. Miso, nori, mebushi, fish, natto, tofu, etc.--aside from rice, these staples are low-carb or zero-carb.

Also, check your blood sugar after rice; Nothing like wheat or sugars.

Dr. Davis: Thanks for the reply. I would love you discuss this topic in more detail in the future.
Respectfully, I do take issue with your statement that the Japanese diet is not primarily a high carb diet. I lived in Japan for a few months and even lived with a family there. Our diet was primarily rice. Seaweeds and small amounts of fish were added, but it was basically a low carb, low fat diet. I absolutely agree that wheat played not part in their diet.
I have enjoyed the topic. Bobby

Dr.Davis, yes of course your blood sugar normalized when you drastically reduced carbs and increased fat!  You stopped eating foods directly convert to blood glucose!  The body can run on primarily glucose from carbs or by converting fats via ketosis, yes?

What I am talking about takes a couple weeks at minimum to occur and that is a dramatic reduction in insulin resistance when dietary fats are consistently reduced to 8-10% total calories.

The body seems to work either way, running primarily on carbs OR primarily on fats BUT NOT on both at once.  That seems to be where the big problems arise and is the SAD, high carb/high fat diet.  Also of course, SAD is high junk, fake food which greatly exacerbates the problems.

The misunderstanding comes and is continually repeated because people try one meal of high carb after eating high fat over time so their body has fairly high IR.  You must eat very low fat, every single meal, for a couple weeks minimum to see the effect I am talking about and some people take longer than that for their bodies to loose the IR

Of topic, for which I apologise Dr. Davis, but here is an article in the mainstream media which questions the efficacy of omega-3 likening the taking of it to a "cult". - The cult of omega-3

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8543172.stm

From the article: "There's no evidence that omega-3 reduces the risk of death or heart attack or stroke or anything like that in those of us who have not recently had a heart attack,"

Somewhat tangential, but anyone see the report on President Obama's cholesterol checkup:

138 LDL
62 HDL
  9 (calc from TC)

209 TC

It is interesting that even the President gets just the same old calculated rather than measured cholesterol test.

Dr. Strange--

Fifteen years ago, I went on the Ornish diet: no meat, no oils, just vegetables, fruits, legumes, and whole grains. I also jogged 5-8 miles per day.

I gained 30 lbs and became diabetic with blood sugars of 167 mg/dl or so.

While my personal experience does not prove or disprove the concept, I've witnessed this phenomenon many, many times.

Conversely, I have never seen anybody become a diabetic on a high-fat diet.

FWIW, I measured BG before & after a breakfast of 1/2 cup oatmeal -- 94 before, 115 (1 hour) after.  That was with 1/4 cup ground flax, a handful of frozen cranberries (whole, no sugar) and 2 T of heavy cream.

I have read that eating fat with carb lowers the effective glycemic index, which may help explain why the BG didn't rise much.

Beth

I learn so much from your blog here and at Health Central, Dr. Davis.  Thank you for the time you put into these free blogs.
I am not diabetic but had gestational diabetes with each of my three pregnancies so I am very interested in doing things to help me not become diabetic.  I have tested my blood sugar after eating old fashioned oatmeal with nuts and a dash of milk and it stays below 100, very surprising.  However if I eat a meal of tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwich it will go over 160.  In testing like I do, I am learning what I can eat and what food combinations work for now.  I'll keep checking as time goes on.
Char

Well, I bought a $10 'True" meter at Walgreens. Fasting reading after 9 hours of no food or drink,(morning) 91.  Ate two eggs cooked in butter, had a bagel ( I know, I know) with Skippy peanut butter on it. Waited 70  minutes, got a reading of 93. Hmmmm......I'm pretty sure everything is calibrated right. Does that second reading make sense?

Dr Strange:

"The body seems to work either way, running primarily on carbs OR primarily on fats BUT NOT on both at once."

That's right but how can you control how much fat or glucose your body uses? As Dr. Davis mentioned Ornish type diet + aerobic exercise does not work.

I don't say that you are complete wrong of course. Insulin resistance is usually related to increased fatty acid avaibility and that will lead to the wise comment made by Stan (Heretic). When your subcutaneous adipose tissue functions normally you do not accumulate visceral fat and get metabolic syndrome and/or T2DM.

I don't know if low carb will eventually restore health but it will certainly give more time and low blood glucose rapidly. But there may be limitations to low carb also since you have only limited access to decide what your body does with ingested foods.

Westie, actually an Ornish type diet does work IF you do NOT eat refined carbs.  You have to only eat real, whole plant foods, as close to intact as possible.  Refined carbs will alway spike bg and raise triglyerides etc.  Some people do not do well on low carb diets.  I did Bernstein's version, very strict, for about 9 months and felt worse and worse as time went on.  Low low energy, irritable, post exercise exhaustion that would last 24-48 hours, absolutely no endurance.  Yes my blood sugar was good but it is even better on McDougall (Ornish type) diet.  My lipid profile is good.  I feel much better in every respect, much more healthy.  The diet does work and well!

DrStrange, loss of energy is very bad thing and I'm glad you found a way to overcome that.

McDougall diet sounds very...hmmm...American. Avoiding fats and cholesterol seems to be a main goal. That seems to me quite stupid but I'm not a doctor so lack of knowledge could explain that.

Like most diets designed by professionals McDougall diet has very good points but McDougall +fat +cholesterol +animal protein could do better.

I don't know where these guys have come to the conclusion that if you don't eat fat you don't "have it". Every day most of the energy one uses comes from fats even on a McDougall diet.

McDougall diet does not avoid fat, only no added, extracted fat.  Whatever is present already in plants is good for you and necessary.  Some people (me)(not all) add an ounce or so of flax or chia to get some additional omega 3 to balance the predominance of omega 6 in most veg and grains.  And no, you are not getting most of your calories from fat as the starches in the complex carbs convert quickly directly to glucose which is your energy source.  If you stuff yourself and overeat and get too many calories, then yes you get conversion of glucose to fat but it will go to storage.  Eating that kind of diet, your physiology is tuned to burning glucose and you will have plenty of glucose to burn, so you will store that fat.  Also, if you eat refined carbs, added sweeteners, dried fruit, things that spike blood sugar too high, then some of that will be converted to triglycerides and fat.

Dr McDougall calls his diet "starch centered" as that is the source of fuel, starch converted to glucose.  This as opposed to a fat centered diet ie low carb, where you get your calories from burning fat.  Really not "American" but global as most traditional diets were/are starch centered with small amounts of animal products and mostly a wide variety of produce.

DrStrange- you seem to be ignoring Dr. Davis's comment- Ornish did not work well for him (or for most people that I'm aware of).  I can't imagine anyone with "normal" metabolism who would not do better on a low carb diet.  There are people with carnitine defiencies or genetic defects that reduce fatty acid translocation across the mitochondria (such as palmitoylcarnitine transferase deficiency) who cannot use fatty acids effectively for fuel and must eat a high carb diet for energy.  But those people and types of metabolism are rare.  Perhaps you are one of them.

Cynthia

DrStrange, if you eat low fat de novo lipogenesis increases automaticly. Fatty acid formation increases both in liver and in adipose tissue. With healthy insulin  sensitivity there are no problems with that. It's totally fine and healthy.

Thinking that avoiding fat and staying on starch keeps fat out of the body is simple wrong and it is usually part of intentional marketing or unintentional black & white type thinking (stupidity?).

Avoiding fat in fact leads to "hardening" of your lipid profile in AT since glucose is metabolized to palmitic acid in the liver and then transported to storage.

McDougall diet has excellent ingredients but thinking that cholesterol or animal fat will automaticly lead to overweight and disease is truely false. You can claim it to be true and believe it but I'm sorry to say it seems to be false.

Glucose and fats both makes important fuels and I personally love them both.

Cynthia wrote:

"I can't imagine anyone with "normal" metabolism who would not do better on a low carb diet."

If a persons health is dependent on some kind of a restricting diet can you say that person has a healthy metabolism? It can be seen as "normal" but it sure isn't healthy. For type 2 diabetics low carb will bring lot of help and quite fast but will it make carbs bad? Not in my opinion.

Things that cause metabolic syndrome, heart disease or other illnesses should be blaimed. Loss of insulin sensitivity is bad and restricting low calorie diets are bad. Most natural way to heal your metabolism is not through restriction, but through giving your body what it needs to recover and stay in good health and shape.

I use to be a vegetarian.  I went months of eating nothing but whole grain (not just "brown" but things like millet and such) and veggies and fruit along with low or no fat protein sources like beans (I soaked them myself so they weren't even canned).  The only oils came from the very small amount of olive or canola oil I used in cooking.  My total fat was right about 10%.  After about 6 months my triglicerides had skyrocketed, my cholesterol was the same as it was before I started, my weight had increased and I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, which I believe was directly correlated with the amount of "healthy, whole, natural" carbohydrates in my very low fat "healthy" diet.  I subsequently was also diagnosed diabetic.  I am now a 2 year low-carber.  My triglicerides have plummeted, my cholesterol is lower, and my HgA1C is under 6.0.  I have also lost 70 lbs.  Some people may or may not do better with low fat, non-refined carbs, but for me it not only did not improve my health, it nearly killed me.

Here is a link from my website (www.dsolve.com) with some charts/graphs of what normal blood sugars look like compared to diabetics:
http://www.dsolve.com/news-aamp-info-othermenu-60/23-diabetes-solution/159-news

Hope this is a useful reference for what is "normal".

I've been so fatigued that will mean that I'm diabetic is because every time I ate sweet things I comes to feel a little bit bad

First of all very thanks for providing this nice tips list.one has to follow it strictly to get good health.


best regards
Smith Alan
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Oatmeal yields high blood sugars. Even if your fasting blood sugar is 90 mg/dl, a bowl of oatmeal with skim milk, walnuts, and some berries will yield blood sugars of 150-200 mg/dl in many people.

Um. What is it with all this talk of skim milk and 2%? Are you guys serious? I don't mess around with that white poison anymore. Use raw milk or cream. Never pasteurized milk.

Also, soaking oats in an acidic base drastically changes the composition of the oats, reducing phytates and improving digestion and nutrient absorption.

Here's my oatmeal:
- soak raw oats in raw whey overnight
- dehydrate at 150 degress until crisp/dry
- one cup of prepared oatmeal in a bowl.
- one tablespoon of grass fed pasture butter
- three tablespoons of heavy cream (no additives of any kind) or raw grass fed whole milk.
- one teaspoon of raw unprocessed honey and maybe a pinch of pure stevia powder.

optionals:
- 4 or 5 soaked/dehyrdated raw almonds or pecans
- 4 or 5 blueberries

Carb heavy? maybe a bit, but it's also loaded with high quality fats and proteins.

I certainly wouldn't eat this daily because it's too many carbs and too much fiber, but 1-2 times a week of this type of oatmeal is fine and quite nutrient dense.

Wow! even better. Don't dehydrate the oats. Just drain after soaking in water (with whey) and put the soaked oats in a glass casserole dish.

Add in some coconut oil, maybe a bit of raw honey and/or stevia, cinnamon, real vanilla, and bake at 350 degrees for 35 minutes.

Cut a nice piece out and add some cream and pasture butter, maybe a few blueberries.

#1 your whole house will smell like the holiday season.

#2 you will have a nutrient filled serving of soaked oatmeal.

I'd imagine though, with the honey and the oats, that even a normal sized serving will be on the higher side in carbs, so you wouldn't want to eat this all the time and you wouldn't want to have carb heavy foods for the remainder of your day.

I know Dr Davis doesn't recommend oatmeal or butter, but if you're gonna do it you may as well do it right and I think this is leagues better than the instant garbage most people eat every single day. blucchhkk!

-Jack K.

Dr Davis,

What do you recommend for carbs for athletes?

I work out 5 days, extremely hard (crossfit/weightlifting type of stuff)

If I dip too low, I am super sluggish. Even after months of trying to be very high fat Paleo.

My Blog, low carb-high fat never worked for me.  I struggled with it and tried to "make" my body adapt for 9 months and just continually felt worse and worse.  If I worked out even moderately for an hour or so I would have to sleep after and then be wasted the rest of the day and sometimes even part of the next day.

I now eat the diet proposed by Joel Fuhrman, M.D. (Eat to Live aka ETL) with zero refined carbs but a lot of carbs some starchy vegetables and lots of beans. Raw seeds and nuts for fat and EFA.  I do supplement omega 3 (vegan DHA) and vitamins D and B-12. I do eat meat but only very small amounts occasionally.  I have plenty of energy and all my test numbers are excellent.

Of course, what a great site and informative posts, I will add backlink - bookmark this site? Regards, Reader.

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