Roger's near-miss CT angiogram experience

Heart Scan Blog reader, Roger, described his near-miss experience with CT coronary angiograms.

Hoping to obtain just a simple CT heart scan, he was bullied to get a CT coronary angiogram instead. Roger held strong and just asked for the test that we all should be having, a CT heart scan.


I posted yesterday that I was about to have my first CT heart scan...well, it was an interesting experience for reasons I coudn't possibly have anticipated. Dr. Davis has commented in the past on the confusion in the media about the difference between a CT calcium score scan, and a CT angiography, the latter requiring a far higher dose of radiation. I assumed this was a source of confusion only among patients and lay folks, but, lo and behold, I discovered today that doctors--or at least their helpers--can be just as confused.

Here's my story:

After checking in, I asked the receptionist to see if she had any information on whether my medical insurance was covering the scan. She called someone, and I heard her say over the phone, "He's here for a CT angiogram." At that point my ears perked up. I explained I wasn't here for a CT angiogram, only a regular CT scan. "Well, do you want to call your doctor and talk about this?" she asked. No, I said, I would like to ask one of their folks to verify exactly what test my doctor had ordered. As luck would have it, the technician was walking by at that point. "Is this a CT angiogram?" the receptionist asked. "No, it's just a CT calcium score scan" was the reply. But apparently the technician had been unclear herself, and had called my doctor just to verify. In other words, the "default" procedure they were accustomed to doing at this august Houston vascular clinic was a CT angiogram.

In fact, my appointment was even listed on their calendar as a "CT angiogram." For all I know, my insurance will be billed for the same. Later, during the procedure, the technician acted surprised I wasn't doing the "full test." I explained I had minimal risk factors (actually only one, an HDL of 34 a couple of years ago, which has since been raised to 50 partly as a result of taking advice from this site), but that my doctor was progressive (he is an MD for the Houston Astros) and thought it was a good idea since there is heart disease in my immediate family. My doctor did indeed prescribe only a CT calcium score scan, but it seems to have been an order that this clinic, at least, wasn't all that used to seeing.

So, I guess the message is: we have a lot of educating to do. Had I not been a faithful reader of these pages, I certainly wouldn't have known what kind of test I was about to get, or what questions to ask!

As for the heart scan itself, a piece of cake. If you can hold your breath, you can take this test. Just be sure it is the right one!



Why the "push" towards CT coronary angiograms and not "just" a CT heart scan? Well, I know it's shocking but it's . . . money!

CT coronary angiograms yield around $1800-$4000 per test. CT heart scans yield somewhere around $200. Though the scan center support staff might not care too much about the money themselves, their administrators likely make the cost distinctions clear to them.

Another reason: Most scan center staff, ironically, don't understand what a heart scan means, nor do they understand how it might serve to launch a program of prevention. They do understand that severe blockage by CT angiogram "needs" to be stented or bypassed. So they push patients towards things they understand.

Nobody makes money from CT heart scans, just as nobody makes money from a mammogram. Heart scans also don't lead to heroic, "lifesaving" procedures. They just lead to this sleepy, unexciting, inexpensive thing called prevention.

Comments (13) -

  • Mark K. Sprengel

    6/28/2009 11:35:08 AM |

    I had a friend that recently went for a heart scan. He said his score was zero. Is that possible?

  • Anonymous

    6/28/2009 4:31:52 PM |

    I hope the USA can see its way to some sort of national standards for State run medicare. As recent events show, if you have the will, the money will be found.

    I live in Ontario, Canada and only had to ask my primary care physician in order to get a CT angiogram (did not know about the Calcium score at the time) It's cost is covered under our social medicine program OHIP.

    A new study shows 30% drop in mortality from CD

    http://www.theheart.org/article/980589.do

  • Anna

    6/28/2009 5:30:18 PM |

    Sure it is.  My score was 0.  That's despite doing quite a bit in direct opposition to the AHA recommended dietary advice:

    -no wheat/gluten at all (whole or refined)
    -very few, if any grains (whole or refined)
    -very low sugar and starch consumption (low carb)
    -pastured red meat several times a week (bison, beef, or pork)  with normal ferritin level
    -high saturated fat consumption (grassfed butter, coconut oil, home-render lard)
    -whole fat dairy (incl raw whole milk and raw milk aged cheese)
    -no attempt to artificially increase fiber, though there's probably a fair amount of fiber in the ample fresh non-starchy veggies I consume
    -2 to 3 "backyard" eggs cooked in ample butter nearly daily for breakfast

  • fred88

    6/28/2009 7:04:06 PM |

    i am 72 years old my calcium score is zero.2 yrs ago i was diagnosed with angina.i took the linus pauling protocol and cured my heart disease.on march 20th 2009 i had a calcium score scan and astounded my cardiologist as my arteries were completely cleared.vitamin c and amino acid is cheap and available. no money in it for doctors.discredited by medical profession.

  • Jim the Guacamole Diet guy

    6/29/2009 5:54:45 AM |

    "Why the "push" towards CT coronary angiograms and not "just" a CT heart scan? Well, I know it's shocking but it's . . . money!"

    No, surely not.

  • billye

    6/29/2009 11:12:29 AM |

    Rogers experience brought back an unpleasant near miss CT Angiogram memory of an episode that I had while being in the hospital 5 years ago. I was  brought in with congestive heart failure-EF 20/25,  Now Don't think you are soon to lose a faithful reader, my EF is now 45/50, due to Aranesp injections, that I am doing exceptionally well on.  My anemia is now under fabulous control.
    But, I digress, one day while in the hospital a beautiful young lady with long flowing hair wearing a white coat and stethoscope came in to see me and identified her self as the cardiologist assistant. She quickly started to promote me to have an angiogram.  I refused. The hospital cardiologist came to see me and I told him not to send me any more sales reps. (he must have learned this technique from big Pharma with all their beautiful drug sales reps). I never did have that apparently unnecessary needless invasive procedure done.  Guess what?, I lived to tell the story.

  • Jim, Guacamole Diet

    6/29/2009 1:03:19 PM |

    One morning last year, I drank way too much strong tea. A few hours later, I had chest pains and tachycardia. I had forgotten about the tea, which with hindsight  was the obvious cause, and I went to an emergency room.

    By the time I got there, the pain had gone, and I should never have stepped into the ER waiting room.

    As soon as they got their hands on me, they wouldn't let me go, claiming that insurance wouldn't pay if I left against doctors' orders. They quickly ran up any thousands of dollars of expensive tests, all of which came back fine.

    They were very unhappy that I refused a coronary artery stent.

    My ejection fraction was 65.

  • Anna

    6/29/2009 6:09:24 PM |

    Anonymous in Canada,

    "A new study shows 30% drop in mortality from CD"

    Yes, modern medicine "saves" more people all the time.  

    But is the *incidence" of CD dropping? or is medicine just getting better at treatment.  I want to avoid CD, not just be saved from it.

    I used to be a strong believer that the US needed a universal medical care system similar to Canada and the UK.  Now that I have had a closer look at the UK's system over the last 14 years (in-laws are there) and have experienced the profound lack of primary prevention under a US HMO system (healthcare rationing), I'm not-so-sure.  

    Sure, we are a rich nation and we should be able to afford decent healthcare for everyone.  The current system is for haves and have-nots with the in-betweens really getting pinched.  And furthermore, the haves don't get nearly the quality of care that they pay through the nose for anyway (though many don't realize it).  

    But I can't see how turning over the decisions to government is going to be any better than it has been to turn over decisions to HMP insurance companies and accountants.  In fact, it could get worse.  Especially since government has turned into the handmaiden for special interests.  As much as I think it should happen, I have a hard time getting behind the proposals.  Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

  • Anonymous

    6/30/2009 12:51:29 AM |

    ok fred88, you almost got me excited....until I saw the oral EDTA chelation.... I'm calling BS by association

  • Kent

    6/30/2009 1:54:06 AM |

    Fred,

    I've heard a mixture of reports on the Pauling protocol with varied success. Can you give a little more detail as to how much vitaming C, L-Lysine, etc. you took per day at what intervals, and the time duration you believe it took for the protocol to do it's job?

    Thanks,
    Kent

  • TedHutchinson

    6/30/2009 8:39:34 AM |

    Pauling Protocol in PDF format
    take note of this section
    The half-life of vitamin C in the bloodstream is 30 minutes.  
    Linus Pauling advised taking vitamin C throughout the day in divided doses. The Hickey/Roberts Dynamic Flow theory predicts that taking vitamin C  every four hours will produce the highest sustained blood concentrations. Take more before bedtime.

    I use a time release formulation

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 8:25:24 PM |

    CT coronary angiograms yield around $1800-$4000 per test. CT heart scans yield somewhere around $200. Though the scan center support staff might not care too much about the money themselves, their administrators likely make the cost distinctions clear to them.

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Is pomegranate juice healthy?

Is pomegranate juice healthy?


Pomegranate juice, 8 oz:

Sugars, total 31.50 g

Sucrose 0.00 g

Glucose (dextrose) 15.64 g

Fructose 15.86 g




In your quest to increase the flavonoids in your diet, do you overexpose yourself to fructose?

Remember: Fructose increases LDL cholesterol, apoprotein B, small LDL, triglycerides, and substantially increases deposition of visceral fat (fructose belly?). How about a slice of whole grain bread with that glass of pomegranate juice? The Heart Association says it's all low-fat!


(Coming on the Track Your Plaque website: A full in-depth Special Report on fructose in all its glorious forms and whether this is truly an issue for your health. Fructose tables and the scientific data to establish a safe "threshold" value will be included.)

Image courtesy Wikipedia

Comments (20) -

  • Anonymous

    7/19/2009 1:45:42 PM |

    all should keep in mind that 4 grams of sugar is equal to one teaspoon.  31 grams is 7 teaspoons plus; not exactly what one would think in what is promoted to be a healthful product!

  • John

    7/19/2009 2:15:04 PM |

    Like most juices, pomegranate juice just has too much sugar.  There is a reason why a juice glass is very small!

    I don't buy pomgrante juice anymore, and when I did I would water it down.  100% is very expensive too.

    Another thing about pomegranate juice, people might be surprised to find that many of them are not 100% pomegranate, but a blend of several juices.

  • Andrew

    7/19/2009 3:59:34 PM |

    At what point do the positive health benefits of pomegranate outweigh the bad parts of fructose?

  • Tom

    7/19/2009 4:20:58 PM |

    Thanks for your great blog! Your information on wheat and sugar is a must read for anyone serious about their health. I like your blog so much, I added a link to it at my blog at http://eatingandfasting.blogspot.com/

  • Anonymous

    7/19/2009 6:07:12 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Are you implying that there is no difference between a glass of Kool-ade and a glass of fresh Orange Juice?

    IMO, the problem is not fructose. The problem is highly refined sugar sources that are isolated from their highly complex natural matrix of fiber, vitamins, minerals, flavanoids, antioxidants, enzymes, amino acids--all which act in synergy together.

    That's why PJ reduced atherosclerosis by 35% compared to control group, lowered BP by 20%, increased antioxidant status, and did not raise blood sugar.

    (FYI, I happen to have heterozygous FH and drink daily one full glass of PJ along with one full glass of concord grape juice, and 97% of my LDL particle size remains large, my blood sugar is perfect, and my apo B is not too high. I do avoid refined sugars and carbs, however.)

    So please, Dr. Davis, don't compare an apple with a candy bar.

  • AJ

    7/20/2009 4:52:14 AM |

    Guava juice used to be my particular poison - literally speaking. But it's just not worth the hit to my metabolism. It's been awhile since I last drank any fruit juice and it will be never before I drink it again.

    It's an uphill battle to get people to realise the dangers of fructose, particularly when food manufacturers are allowed to put "No sugar added" on the label. Have them put the grammes of sugars the whole bottle contains on the front of the container in large bright type. It won't stop everyone, but it may help a few people make healthier choices.

  • JC

    7/20/2009 10:55:48 AM |

    Pomegranate juice more than triples PSA doubling time.Is that significant?

  • Peter

    7/20/2009 1:56:43 PM |

    I like to dilute the pomegranate juice with vodka.  That way I only use a couple of ounces of juice at a time, minimizing the fructose but still getting some flavanoids.  Of course once the long term study on this regimen comes out I may have to revise my view.

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/21/2009 3:28:52 AM |

    It's the same flawed logic of "healthy whole grains": If it contains something good (B vitamins, fiber), then it must be good. And it must be even better when consumed in greater quantities.

    Just because it contains one or two desirable ingredients doesn't mean that the entire "package" is desirable,

  • niner

    7/21/2009 5:00:09 AM |

    There's always pomegranate extracts.  You can get the polyphenols in a pill without all the sugar.  I'd be interested in what Dr. D thinks about this form of "sugar-free pomegranate".

  • JC

    7/21/2009 11:19:40 AM |

    Dr Davis,What about the research on pomegranate juice and PSA doubling time?

    Can you also comment on the reported benefits of cranberry juice in preventing urinary infection?

    Thanks,JC

  • Jonathan Byron

    7/21/2009 3:12:18 PM |

    You are absolutely right that fruit can contain large amounts of fruit sugar, and that large amounts of fructose can have serious consequences. The idea that fruit juice must be good (in any quantity) is not supported by the evidence.

    But fruits are more than sugar and moderate amounts of fruits and fructose are not inherently bad - the question is what is reasonable. For those of us with fatty liver, certain patterns of dyslipidemia, or a GI fructose intolerance, the ideal amount is very low. For those who don't fall into that category, the ideal amount of fruit is somewhat greater (but probably less than most people assume).

  • Anna

    7/22/2009 10:22:04 PM |

    I can't remember the last time I saw someone outside my household drink juice from a small juice glass.  Most people I see drinking juice are consuming quantities of juice that practically rival a 7-Eleven Big Gulp.

    Many days I squeeze a half orange to make a couple ounces of OJ to mix with cod liver oil to make the CLO palatable for my young son.  

    To fill a 4 oz juice glass (with about 3-3.5 oz juice), it takes 1-2 oranges, which means that larger glasses of OJ contain the sugar of a whole lot of oranges!  Who would ever eat that many whole oranges in one sitting?

    Also, I know from using a glucose meter that OJ sugar is nearly instantly into my blood stream (and that isn't even measuring the affect of the fructose portion of sugars.  The glucose spikes an insulin response and later a nasty feeling low BG.  So I approach fruit juices with extreme caution and limitations on both quantity and frequency.  I eat whole lower sugar fruits in extreme moderation (avoiding higher sugar tropical fruits).  I focus more on non-starchy veggies rather than fruit, anyway, because veggies are high in the nutrients I want without the excess sugar that fruit has.        

    Not long ago I was in waiting in line at a Starbucks to order an Americano (lack of local coffee shops at that particular suburban area) and right next to me a dad was reading aloud to his young daughter the number of grams of sugar from her “fresh-squeezed 100% fruit juice” bottle label. He noted incredulously there were 30-something grams of sugars per serving and there were 2.5 servings per bottle. He said  â€œwow, that’s a lot of sugar in that bottle”. I thought to myself, wow, here’s a dad who is “getting it”, so I said to him, “there’s 4 grams of sugar to a teaspoon, so that’s at least 7-9 teaspoons of sugar per serving, very nearly the sugar content in soda.”

    His response was, “but it’s fruit sugar, and she doesn’t eat enough fruits and vegetables, so I guess that’s ok.” Sigh. I let it go, and ordered my Americano (unsweetened).

    I've had many interesting conversations with a glycobiologist colleague of my husband's.  He has confirmed I'd be wise to keep all sources of fructose intake to a minimum, as well as being especially wary of concentrated sources of fructose.    I'm sure he follows his own advice; he's looks at least 15 years younger than his 60 years - lack of AGEing, I guess.

  • trinkwasser

    7/29/2009 6:04:30 PM |

    Tell this stuff to a dietician and they won't believe you "but it's low fat!"

    My BG meter tells me fruit juice is an exceedingly toxic substance, and most of my once favourite fruits aren't much better.

    Fortunately it permits me to eat a few berries, but I'd rather get my bioflavinoids etc. from vegetables.

    IMO there's a balancing point between the beneficial and non-beneficial properties of many foods, we probably evolved to deal with small acute doses of toxins but fall apart with chronic exposure to high levels of the same stuff, and all the bioflavinoids and vitamins don't outweigh the damage.

    I just stuffed some strawberries in my face following my lamb chops and runner beans, but only a few, and I washed them down with a fine Bordeaux, that'll about achieve a balance.

  • Barrry

    2/22/2010 12:58:33 PM |

    i have been using Pomegranate juice for 3 years every day after i had 2 stents placed. i also had type 2 diabetes. It has worked very well for me and has not effected my A1c in the least. My cardilogical nuclear studies have been perfect. i am a believer my opinion this stuff can save your life.

  • EMR

    2/24/2010 1:33:43 PM |

    ink it should be avoided by sugar patients.It contains almost a spoon of sugar...though with wheat bread the whole effect of the meal is balanced.

  • Anonymous

    3/8/2010 3:03:37 PM |

    http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Pomegranate-juice-shows-possible-diabetes-benefits

    Quit being sugar paranoid.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 3:09:20 PM |

    Remember: Fructose increases LDL cholesterol, apoprotein B, small LDL, triglycerides, and substantially increases deposition of visceral fat (fructose belly?). How about a slice of whole grain bread with that glass of pomegranate juice? The Heart Association says it's all low-fat!

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