Slash carbs . . . What happens?

Cut the carbohydrates in your diet and what sorts of results can you expect?

Carbohydrate reduction results in:

Reduced small LDL--This effect is profound. Carbohydrates increase small LDL; reduction of carbohydrates reduce small LDL. People are often confused by this because the effect will not be evident in the crude, calculated (Friedewald) LDL that your doctor provides.

Increased HDL--The HDL-increasing effect of carbohydrate reduction may require 1-2 years. In fact, in the first 2 months, HDL will drop, only to be followed by a slow, gradual increase. This is the reason why, in a number of low-carb diet studies, HDL was shown to be reduced.--Had the timeline been longer, HDL would show a significant increase.

Decreased triglycerides--Like reduction of small LDL, the effect is substantial. Triglyceride reductions of several hundred milligrams are not at all uncommon. In people with familial hypertriglyceridemia with triglyceride levels in the thousands of milligrams per deciliter, triglyceride levels will plummet with carbohydrate restriction. (Ironically, conventional treatment for familial hypertriglyceridemia is fat restriction, a practice that can reduce triglycerides modestly in these people, but not anywhere near as effectively as carbohydrate restriction.) Triglyceride reduction is crucial, because triglycerides are required by the process to make small LDL--less triglycerides, less small LDL.

Decreased inflammation--This will be reflected in the crude surface marker, c-reactive protein--Yes, the test that the drug industry has tried to convince you to take statins drugs to reduce. In my view, it is an absurd notion that you need to take a drug like Crestor to reduce risk associated with increased CRP. If you want to reduce CRP to the floor, eliminate wheat and other junk carbohydrates. (You should also add vitamin D, another potent CRP-reducing strategy.)

Reduced blood pressure--Like HDL, blood pressure will respond over an extended period of months to years, not days or weeks. The blood pressure reduction will be proportion to the amount of reduction in your "wheat belly."

Reduced blood sugar--Whether you watch fasting blood sugar, postprandial (after-meal) blood sugars, or HbA1c, you will witness dramatic reductions by eliminating or reducing the foods that generate the high blood sugar responses in the first place. Diabetics, in particular, will see the biggest reductions, despite the fact that the American Diabetes Association persists in advising diabetics to eat all the carbohydrates they want. Reductions in postprandial (after-eating) blood sugars, in particular, will reduce the process of LDL glycation, the modification of LDL particles by glucose that makes them more plaque-causing.


You may notice that the above list corresponds to the list of common plagues targeted by the pharmaceutical industry: blood pressure, diabetes (diabetes being the growth industry of the 21st century), high cholesterol. In other words, high-carbohydrate, low-fat foods from the food industry create the list of problems; the pharmaceutical industry steps in to treat the consequences.

In the Track Your Plaque approach, we focus specifically on elimination of wheat, cornstarch, and sugars, the most offensive among the carbohydrates. The need to avoid other carbohydrates, e.g., barley, oats, quinoa, spelt, etc., depends on individual carbohydrate sensitivty, though I tend to suggest minimal exposure.

Comments (20) -

  • Emily

    3/26/2010 4:17:02 PM |

    you forgot one more benefit- effortless wieght loss! at least for many of us...

  • Tony

    3/26/2010 4:28:57 PM |

    I've eliminated almost all sugar, and all refined grains, but I still  eat brown rice, oatmeal, and whole spelt bread. On my recent VAP test, my triglycerides were 78, HDL was 63, and my LDL was Pattern A (large, buoyant LDL). Also, my Cardiac C Reactive Protein was .84. I'm concluding that some whole grains are appropriate for me, and I use the blood glucose monitor to monitor postprandial glucose.

    By the way, thank you for all the info.

  • JustJoeP

    3/26/2010 4:47:04 PM |

    Dr. Davis, following your advice as well as several other clarion voices in the nutritional wilderness, over the last 9 months I went from:
    HbA1C 6.6, Fasting glucose 125mg/dl, BP135/85, LDL nearly 200, HDL below 30, body weight 245 (6ft tall, 40 in waist) on a mainly carb diet, to:

    HbA1C 5.5, Fasting glucose 105mg/dl, BP115/70, LDL nearly in 1/2, HDL above 65, body weight 204 (still 6ft tall, but a 33 in waist) on a very low carb diet.

    I've got 4 friends - all males in their 40s - who have also moved their personal numbers in these directions by greatly reducing carbs.  I'm trying to get my severely type II diabetic father to follow the same regimen, but his Medicare provided dietitian is fighting me every step of the way, with a diet based upon bread!  The struggle continues.

    Thank you for being a consistent, well informed, voice of reason.  You've helped more people than you know.  (linked to you here).  Be well.

  • Isaac

    3/26/2010 5:18:11 PM |

    And I'm so unimpressed with the lack of any good hard endpoint data associated with the insulin sensitizers and such.  These dietary options really need to be explored further but, sadly, won't so long as physicians aren't reimbursed for it.

  • Daniel

    3/26/2010 5:45:40 PM |

    I agree regarding fructose.  

    In people with impaired glucose tolerance, slashing starch too may indeed be beneficial.  But is there any evidence that slashing starch benefits people who have a healthy liver and pancreas?  In such people, I suspect slashing starch is just treating numbers and has nothing to do with health.  Otherwise, how do you explain Kitava, Peru, and Asia?

  • jandro

    3/26/2010 8:25:13 PM |

    Sometimes I think that the results given with these studies are mostly due to the reduction of grains (lectins) and refined sugar and not carbohydrates themselves. I want to believe it is as simple as reducing carbohydrates but it doesn't explain how populations like Kuna and Kitava have good health markers even though they eat a high carb diet. Dr. WD, do you have any ideas related to this specific topic?

    ** I am not debating the results of low carb (I personally do paleo), and if your metabolism is already damaged low carb is the only way, but what if it is not? (you were never obese, diabetic, started healthy habits at a young age, etc).

  • Anonymous

    3/26/2010 10:28:29 PM |

    Would these benefits also accrue to someone who does not get postprandial spikes in blood glucose on a low-carb diet - like the regular commentator "DrStrange"?

  • Ned Kock

    3/26/2010 10:57:59 PM |

    Actually, in the study reviewed in the post below, a 2-week replacement of refined carbs and sugars with dietary fat (mostly saturated) and cholesterol, led to a significant increase in HDL (14 percent increase in HDL from baseline for men).

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/02/want-to-improve-your-cholesterol.html

    That was two weeks only.

    In my own experience, higher consumption of saturated fat and dietary cholesterol has immediate effects on HDL, and those effects are especially strong with elimination of refined carbs and sugars.

  • gindie

    3/26/2010 10:59:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    You mentioned Vitamin D.  I just got tested, level is 14.  However, I get episodes of calcium-based kidney stones (every 3-4 years or so).  How do you treat such patients?

  • Anonymous

    3/27/2010 12:15:47 AM |

    One thing I don't understand is if all these benefits are independent or if they are all linked to glucose level.
    If a particular carbohidrate causes little glucose spike will it still cause the other poblems?
    Or if carbohidrate intake is followed by intense physic actvity which seems to take BG down does it still causes all the other problems?

  • I Pull 400 Watts

    3/27/2010 12:32:49 AM |

    Just letting you know, very nice post!

  • Kim

    3/27/2010 2:53:35 AM |

    I totally agree.  I continued to struggle with my cholesterol the first year or so on a low carb diet.  After 3 years, my HDL has gone from 40 to 87 and my LDL has improved.  My blood pressure also improved over time.  My triglycerides were never high, but are usually in the 35 range now.  It's an awesome thing!

  • Stan (Heretic)

    3/27/2010 3:50:02 AM |

    Welcome to Low Carb Dr. Davis!  From now on, your life will never be the the same

    8-Smile

    In addition to what you have listed, which I can confirm in 100%, more beneficial effects will become apparent, such as:

    - self-healing of teeth with no need for dental intervention, and roughly twice as fast healing of broken bones.

    - healing of common cardiovascular diseases (arteriosclerosis, cardio myopathy and arrhythmia)

    - rapid self-healing of hepatic diseases (i.e post hep-C cirrhosis healed in 6 months),

    - improved kidney disease recovery (I heard of a patient  surviving on Optimal Diet without dialalysis with only 1/3 of 1 kidney left)

    - normalization of one's body weight (obese loose, underweight gain),

    - much stronger immune system (for instance, I never had a flu since yr 2000, before - twice a year)

    - stronger more benign reaction to stress, no more paralyzing panic, no more total body vascular contraction and probably related better resistance to cold temperature.  

    - no need to drink water frequently (fat metabolism releases water as an end product)

    - never feel hungry again, no need to snack, eating once or twice a day becomes the norm.   For me no breakfast, no supper, only lunch and dinner, typically.  

    - improved ability to hold breath longer when diving, generally we also naturally breath less frequently,

    - different (improved) mood, subtle changes in the way one thinks, solves problems and react to life events, as no doubts, you will find out...  8-Smile

    Regards,
    Stan (Heretic)

  • Lori Miller

    3/27/2010 1:59:21 PM |

    Daniel, I've tested my own blood glucose before and after meals and it's normal. However, I cut way back on all carbs a couple of months ago, and now eat around 47 grams of carbs per day. Results: I find that I don't need Sudafed or acid blockers at all now and I rarely take ibuprofin (an anti-inflammatory). The twinge in my shoulder and knee are gone. I've lost 10 pounds while working out *less.* I seldom get headaches, and when I do, they're mild. I also need a lot less sleep.

    Should anyone care for details, I've chronicled my experience in my blog.

  • Stan (Heretic)

    3/27/2010 3:26:56 PM |

    jandro - it is a very good question.  I wonder too but the studies I am reading (see for example Lancet. 1996 ) seem to indicate that carbohydrate reduction is beneficial in all cases, including healthy rural young populations.  

    I see it now in the same light as for example alcohol consumption: if you are healthy and young, a  harm may be minimal and some wine  (in moderation) may even provide you with some calories and micronutrients (i.e. resveratrol), but why bother consuming all that starchy and sugary plant food that we are not that well adapted for, that is useful only if we have nothing else to eat and that was probably meant for us only as a temporary food to get us over some rough periods of fauna decline.

      Since there is so little modern research done specifically on this subject we are still largely in the domain of hypotheses and theories. However not all that is speculative.  For example existing archaeological research does show us that paleolithic human diet consisted typically over 2/3 of meat!  We are talking about millions of years of human adaptation.

    ---

    Dr. Davis,  I forgot to add to my above list of benefits the following point:

    - reliable improvement (in almost every case) in treating the autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, eczema, psoriasis etc,

    - intestinal disease (Crohns, IBS , very high fat only!).  

    - Multiple sclerosis (not 100% especially if nerve damage is too advanced but improvement in most cases)

    There is a lot of patient cases (hundreds) of the above disease reported by Dr. Jan Kwasniewski, from his medical practice in the 1980-ties, described in his books, especially "Homo Optimus" and "Optimal Nutrition".  

    I think you will find those books extremely interesting, highly recommended.  

    Stan

  • Ellen

    3/27/2010 8:03:15 PM |

    Um Heretic.. I think Dr. Davis has been low carb for quite a while now. No need to welcome him to something he's already quite familiar with Smile

  • jandro

    3/27/2010 10:55:06 PM |

    Stan, thanks for your response:

    I read the abstract of the study you link and don't see how it is related to what I mentioned. It is comparing a vegetarian population with one that eats around a pound of fish a day. Seriously, is there a question there as to which is healthier? I also don't think they are healthier primarily because they consume less carbohydrates, but rather because they consume a pound of fish a day compared to no animal fat/flesh in the other group.

    If you read my original post again you will notice I am not saying a vegetarian diet (in fact, I eat over a pound of meat a day), I am just questioning whether the true problem is carbohydrates or if it is lectins, assuming you have a generous amount of animal fat and protein. I personally eat around 20% carbs, mostly coming from tubers and squashes as I find fruits too sweet (I agree that fructose should be reduced). Generally eat one piece of fruit a day.

    I also don't see any evidence to your claim that humans are not adapted to plant foods. We are omnivores, and that's how we have succeeded. We are adapted to a diet similar to what equatorial hunter gatherers have, since we evolved in a similar environment. People bring many archeological references of sites located outside of Africa not realizing that the environment outside of Africa is nearly as new to us as grains are. Most HGs living in Africa have plant food present on their diet. The information you tell yourself claims 2/3 of our diet was meat, what happened to the other 1/3?

  • Anonymous

    3/29/2010 8:33:04 AM |

    And what if someone goes really lowcarb (mostly meat) and his LDL rises up to 500? No info on the the LDL size. The remaining bloodwork results are  really good. Is this something to be worried about?

  • scall0way

    4/21/2010 7:21:12 PM |

    Hmm, well I eliminated wheat and all glutens from my diet in January 2009. I eliminated sugar at the same time. I also eliminated high Omega-6 vegetable oils. I basically eat low carb. I love to use coconut oil. Smile I've lost over 100 pounds.

    But my cholesterol just goes UP and UP! At least total and LDL - HDL remains in the 58-62 range and triglycerides remain in the 60-70 range. But Total cholesterol went from 229 6 months ago to 279 3 months ago, to 280 today, and LDL went from 165 6 months ago, to 190 3 months ago, to 206 today.

    And I can't understand why! Of course my doctor is rabid to put me on stations and crazy with me that I refuse, and looks at me cross-eyed when I request an NMR/VAP test for LDL particle size.

    But it still bothers me that it continues to go up and up and up, as I feel like I'm doing all I can to lower it. I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto's 6 months ago and put on 50 mcg of Levoxyl. Then three months ago it was upped to 75 mcg. Today it was upped to 88 mcg.

    Slashing carbs eliminating the bad stuff sure is not helping my total numbers, which means a huge argument with the doctor every visit, and I hate to argue. :-(

  • julianne

    9/7/2010 1:42:40 AM |

    I'm so glad I found this post!. I've had a group of clients take on paleo eating as a 6 week trial, doing so has naturally decreased their carbs. I had each person do before and after blood tests and I was concerned that 80% had a reduction in HDL. They also had reductions in Triglycerides and LDL and blood pressure and significant weight loss - but couldn't figure this one out. Thanks so much for keeping us informed of what goes on for your clients, so I know what is happening with mine is normal.

    Julianne
    By the way here are some of the results in people's own words
    http://paleozonenutrition.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/6-week-paleo-trial-results/

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Can I see your linea alba?

Can I see your linea alba?

As more and more people are eliminating wheat from their diet and losing their "wheat bellies," i.e., the muffin top around their waists along with the visceral fat beneath, I am frequently seeing something I haven't seen in years: the linea alba.

Linea alba, or "white line," refers to the band of connective tissue running vertically from sternum to pubic area. It underlies the depression that separates the horizontal abdominal rectus muscles of the "six pack" abdomen.

It's like digging in your closet and finding something you thought you'd lost years earlier. Surprise! It's been there all along. Buried deep beneath the abdominal fat from dozens of deep-crust pizzas, whole wheat pasta, and whole grain sandwiches is this pleasing anatomical feature long lost from most peoples' anteriors.


Can you see your linea alba?

Comments (19) -

  • Anonymous

    11/2/2010 4:38:09 PM |

    Yep.Didn't have a lot of BF to begin with. But once I went 90% Paleo, I could see my libea alba within weeks.

  • Anonymous

    11/2/2010 5:51:42 PM |

    I've been 80% paleo for a year, and while I lost oodles of BF, I'm still not there... :[

  • Patricia Weitzel

    11/2/2010 6:04:22 PM |

    No yet, but I'm working on it Smile

  • Tommy

    11/2/2010 6:56:19 PM |

    I've been wheat/sugar/flour etc free for about 4 months and although I didn't want to drop weight, it just happened; fast. About a month ago I dropped the rest of the grains from my diet and even though my weight stayed the same, the small love handles I had-or extra fat around the waist- disappeared. It wasn't much to begin with, but it's pretty much gone.

  • steve

    11/2/2010 10:44:39 PM |

    this raises an interesting question: what should your ideal weight be?  No doubtthere are benefits to Low Carb diet, but where or how low should your weight be.

  • Anonymous

    11/3/2010 2:01:59 AM |

    I have lost 9 kg this year but my linea alba is still not visible, with the exception of between the two upper parts of the six-pack abdominal muscles.

    Even though a fat-based diet is effective in removing fat tissue, it still takes time to remove the fat tissue.

  • Dr. John

    11/3/2010 2:03:31 AM |

    Your "ideal" weight should be what you weighed when you were 25 yrs old....+/- 10lbs, at the most.
    Women, post gravida, usually....usually...put on about 5-10 lbs after childbirth...that's reasonable...due to hormonal influences.
    But men, you should be at your 25 yr old weight
    Plus, that's when the human body fully matures in all neuromuscularoskeletal body areas.
    Makes sense to be that weight...unless you are eating grains!

  • Hans Keer

    11/3/2010 7:40:57 AM |

    Combine the NO wheat with the plank, push-ups and pull-ups and your linea alba will jump forward. If you are not there yet; You also have a linea alba in your mouth ;)

  • ben

    11/3/2010 2:01:16 PM |

    Paleo has done me well - kept me slim. Lately, increased kettlebell workouts have tones me even more. Have to be honest though - just cant seem to get the full sixpack...upper four are there but those bottom two ba$tards....;)

  • Kent

    11/3/2010 3:07:13 PM |

    Dropping the wheat made a huge improvement on my lipid profile. The only draw back is that I was already pretty thin with 18% body fat, now I'm probably down to 8%. People have commented that I look "too" thin and my cheeks have kind of a sunken look.

  • Geoffrey Levens

    11/3/2010 5:46:55 PM |

    "Your "ideal" weight should be what you weighed when you were 25 yrs old....+/- 10lbs, at the most."

    Don't get out much?  There are tons (pun intended) of massively fat, morbidly obese teenagers all over the country these days.  Go to your local Walmart and check it out. Truly sad. Starbucks muffins, HFCS, McDonald's, etc.

  • Lori Miller

    11/4/2010 5:33:28 AM |

    Re: whether you should weigh what you did at age 25, it depends on what kind of shape you were in at that age. Me, I weigh what I did in high school. Awhile back, I wasn't hungry for a few days and saw a number on the scale that I hadn't seen since junior high.

    I wouldn't trade the white line for all the white food in the world.

  • blogblog

    11/4/2010 8:27:56 AM |

    "Your "ideal" weight should be what you weighed when you were 25 yrs old....+/- 10lbs, at the most."

    I weighed 60kg at 183cm when I was 25. I now weigh 74kg which is far more appropriate.

    It is also possible to be of "normal" weight and have very high body fat and very low muscle mass.

  • Dr. William Davis

    11/4/2010 12:14:03 PM |

    Also factor in relative muscle mass. I am a big believer of strength training, e.g., Fred Hahn's "slow-burn" techniques. Not only do you feel better, you enhance insulin responsiveness, increase HDL, reduce triglycerides, and increase bone density. However, this will increase the crude BMI measure, as well as body weight.

    It also heightens the likelihood of seeing your linea alba.

  • Sifter

    11/5/2010 4:20:21 AM |

    Oh, I don't know... I dated a few women who had the linea alba readily visible, and their diet was mostly junky microwavable frozen food dinners and fast food (when I didn't take them out, that is Smile
    I think the Linea alba being visible is simply a benefit of fewer caloris, not the makeup of those calories.

  • blogblog

    11/6/2010 11:53:40 AM |

    Kent said:
    "The only draw back is that I was already pretty thin with 18% body fat, now I'm probably down to 8%."

    This is extremely unlikely unless you are a world class endurance athlete. You are probably still 14-15% body fat. Even very thin people can have surprisingly high body fat levels.

    I have a friend who is an Australian  national-level middle-distance runner. He has 15% body fat.

    When you lose weight by caloric restriction (including LC diets) you will nearly always lose (a lot) of muscle as well as fat.

    The only way to prevent muscle loss and bulk up is to undertake a resistance training program. Without this protein is just broken down and excreted in the urine.

  • blogblog

    11/7/2010 10:08:27 AM |

    Ballerinas and runway models often have appalling diets and still manage to stay thin.

    It is even possible to get reasonably fat on a paleodiet by ignoring appetite signals.

  • pammi

    11/9/2010 10:35:05 AM |

    Heart  disease is one of the most  dangerous disease which takes thousands of life every years all over the world. If we know its symptoms and Treatment for heart disease. We can prevent is to large extent.

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Heart disease = statin deficiency

Heart disease = statin deficiency

Judging from the conversations I hear from colleagues, what I hear from the media, and drug company advertising, you'd think that heart disease has one cause--a deficiency of statin drugs.

As their thinking goes, if you have coronary disease, you need a statin drug (Lipitor, Zocor, Crestor, pravachol, etc.). If you have progressive coronary disease, you need more statin drug. If you have a heart attack while on a statin drug, you need even more statin drug.

Some "experts" have even proposed that we do away with LDL cholesterol and we just give everybody a statin drug at high doses.

Does this make any sense to you?

Doesn't it make better sense that if someone has progressive heart disease or heart attack while on a statin drug, then target the other causes largely unaffected by a statin drug? Perhaps if LDL cholesterol remains high on the statin drug, then a higher dose is justified. But more often than not, it's not a high LDL on statin drugs that responsible, it's other causes. And there's many of them: low HDL, VLDL, IDL, Lp(a), deficiency of omega-3 fatty acids, inflammatory processes, vitamin D deficiency, among others. (An important exception to this is when the conventional calculated LDL substantially underestimates true LDL as measured by LDL particle number by NMR, apoprotein B, or 'direct' LDL.)

Imagine someone has pneumonia. After 2 weeks of antibiotics, they are only partly better. The solution: a higher dose of the same antibiotic--but never question if it was the right antibiotic in the first place. That's what is going on in heart disease.

The doctors have been brainwashed into believing this $22 billion dollar per year bit of propaganda. The drug companies actively try to recruit the public into believing the same. Don't fall for it.

The statin drugs do indeed have a role. But they are not the complete answer. More of the same when disease progresses makes no sense at all.

Comments (1) -

  • Anonymous

    5/10/2007 5:57:00 PM |

    This is so true!! The drug companies just keep pushing the statins, and most doctors have bought into this.

    Thanks for this article.

    Marilyn, RN,BSN

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High-dose fish oil for Lp(a)

High-dose fish oil for Lp(a)

Lipoprotein(a), or Lp(a), is a problem area in coronary plaque reversal.

While our current Track Your Plaque record holder for largest percentage reduction in heart scan score has Lp(a), it remains among the more troublesome lipoprotein patterns.

One unique treatment for Lp(a) is high-dose omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil. While the data are relatively meager, there is one solid study from Lp(a) expert, Dr. Santica Marcovina of the University of Washington, called "The Lugalawa Study."

In this unique set of observations, 1300 members of a Bantu tribe living in Tanzania were studied. What made this population unusual is the fact that two groups of Bantus lived under different circumstances. One group lived on Nyasa Lake (3rd largest lake in Africa and reputed to have the greatest number of species of fish of any lake in the world) and ate large quantities of freshwater fish providing up to 500 mg of omega-3s, EPA and DHA, per day. Another Bantu group lived away from the lake as farmers, eating a pure vegetarian diet without fish.

Nyasa Lake












This situation among genetically similar stock provided a unique learning opportunity, a chance to assess whether different diets influenced Lp(a) levels.

The results: The fish-eating Bantus had an average Lp(a) level of 14.0 mg/dl. The farming, non-fish eating Bantus had an average Lp(a) of 27.0--a 48% difference. Curiously, a comparison of the apo(a) component of Lp(a) between the groups also showed that the fisherman expressed fewer dangerous small apo(a) forms, despite equal potential to express both.

The Lugalawa Study opens the question of whether similar results can be obtained not by moving to Tanzania and fishing Nyasa Lake, but by mimicking their experience by supplementing high doses of omega-3 fatty acids.

It's an intriguing question. In the Track Your Plaque program, we have no specific experience with this strategy, but it is certainly worth exploring further.

Watch for two upcoming Special Reports on the Track Your Plaque website in which we will be detailing 1)unique strategies for Lp(a) reduction, and 2) the usefulness of high-dose fish oil for coronary plaque reversal.

Interesting enough for a Virtual Clinical Trial?


Image courtesy Wikipedia.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Comments (16) -

  • Anonymous

    1/30/2008 1:22:00 PM |

    I have a Chinese friend that asked if Lp(a)is an inherited trait that Asians are known to have.  Are there races more likely to have Lp(a) than others?

  • Peter

    1/30/2008 2:41:00 PM |

    Hi Dr D,

    Thanks for the study, another very interesting one!

    You also have to consider that the fish must be displacing something from the diet of the vegetarian Bantu. By definition that means that there MUST be a reduction in vegetable intake. We know from hard intervention studies that a low fat diet automatically increases Lp(a) by 7% and adding copious fruits, vegetables and nuts makes the situation slightly worse (9% increase). Conversely a high fat diet reduces Lp(a) by 11%. The high fat diet was only 60% calories from fat and allowed 13% of calories as carbohydrate, so there is ample scope for less vegetables as a really radical intervention to drop Lp(a).

    Although not looking at Lp(a) the other hard intervention study looking at oxidative damage to lipids (and DNA and protein) found that near total elimination of all vegetables, without carbohydrate reduction, markedly reduced oxidative damage.

    When replacing veggies with fish it shouldn't surprise anyone that Lp(a) drops.

    Peter

  • Zute

    1/30/2008 3:45:00 PM |

    I'd finger grains as the culprit before before vegetables any day.

  • Neelesh

    1/30/2008 4:55:00 PM |

    Peter,
      The second study quoted has this logic:
    "Since no long-term effects of GTE were observed, the study essentially served as a fruit and vegetables depletion study.The overall effect of the 10-week period without dietary fruits and vegetables was a decrease in oxidative damage to DNA, blood proteins, and plasma lipids, concomitantly with marked changes in antioxidative defence."
        But the study did not have a group of people who were on a proper(TYP style?) fruit & veg diet to compare. So it sounds like "there were no long-term effects of GTE, but the diet was meat, so it must be the fruits and veggies that is the culprit". Or am I missing something?
    -neelesh

  • Dr. Davis

    1/30/2008 5:02:00 PM |

    RE: racial differences in Lp(a). Yes, there are distinct differences in Lp(a) levels and apo(a) size. Africans have the highest level. There are also pockets of incrased Lp(a) in the British/Irish/Scottish, some of  Jewish descent, among others. I do not know about Asian.

  • Peter

    1/30/2008 7:12:00 PM |

    zute, I'd blame grains for a host of problem but the low fat diet study doesn't give you menus, so who's to say. Except concluding that fruit, veg and nuts don't protect you from grains any more than they protect you from a reduced fat diet. Whichever. But the second study, which only looked at oxidative damage, was high in bread and cake. It's a pity they didn't look at Lp(a) in this one. I know which way I'd bet it went.

    Neelesh, I'm not quite sure I understand you comment. Are you suggesting meat inclusion alters the finding that fruit and vegetable elimination reduces oxidative damage? On a basic low carbohydrate, HIGH meat diet blood antioxidant status improves within three days. Again, this is far off of the topic of Lp(a), but meat got the credit for improving antioxidant status. You could equally well argue it was the lack of vegetables.

    I feel there is a massive difference between eating a steak on its own and eating that same steak with chips, peas, tomatoes, a bowl of green salad plus two bread rolls on the side. Intervention studies suggest one oxidises your lipids, the other doesn't. Epidemiological and observational studies are usually performed by people without this concept. In intervention studies veggies don't do so well. The authors are usually amazed. Very off topic (sorry) but there are very few intervention studies which measure Lp(a).

    Peter

  • Sasquatch

    1/30/2008 8:48:00 PM |

    Hi Peter,

    Interesting study.  Do you have any reason to attribute the increase in antioxidant defenses to increased meat consumption, rather than decreased carb?

  • Anonymous

    1/30/2008 8:57:00 PM |

    Hmmmmm...    I take high doses (5-6 grams) of High Potency EPA/DHA Fish Oil daily.

    I haven't seen any effect on my high Lp(a).

    Maybe it has to be directly from the fish (and while I do eat fish - it's only once or twice a week).

    Fruits and veggies - I eat a lot of those, too.

    Sheesh - this is confusing.  I can't imagine eating less fruits and veggies.

    Bonnie

  • Neelesh

    1/31/2008 2:58:00 AM |

    Peter,
      What I mean is this. Without a group of people being subjected to a fruit+veg+GTE diet and another group to meat+GTE group, one cannot conclude that "meat+GTE= less oxidation damage" implies  "lack of veg/fruit = less oxidation damage" .
        Again, this does not mean that there is no credit to the observation that meat+GTE reduced oxidation damage. However, we cannot logically deduce from that observation  "hence it is because of lack of fruits and veggies".

  • Anonymous

    1/31/2008 4:47:00 AM |

    High Lp(a) is one of the factors cited for the very high incidence of CVD in the South Asian population (India, Pakistan, Bangaldesh....).  Search Pubmed for work done by Dr. Enas Enas

  • Peter

    1/31/2008 6:15:00 AM |

    Hi sasquatch,

    I originally thought it was the lack of carbs rather than the high meat intake in the cyclist study, but the high carb vegetable washout study convinced me it was the lack of vegetables rather than carbs per se.

    The persistent antioxidant effect of fruit and veggies appears to be largely an effect of uric acid produced by ourselves in response to fructose. I've got a paper on this somewhere. Certainly the body eliminates most plant based antioxidants as fast as it can, ref the green tea extract paper.

    The Bantu on the lake eat roughly half a kilo of fish a day (300-600g/d). That's about 100g of animal protein and 550 kcal animal calories. Assuming a 2000 kcal food intake that's an awful lot of displaced vegetables. Results speak for themselves. As far as you can talk about results in an observational study.

    The paper linked to by Dr Davis provides this reference, which goes some way to explaining Bonnie's finding of no change in Lp(a) with fish oils. Unfortunately none of the fish (fish oil?) supportive refs have even abstracts on pubmed, so it's hard to see what's happening. BTW, I've got nothing against fish oils, 5g/d sounds like a very physiological intake. But it doesn't displace much in the way of vegetables.

    Peter

  • Peter

    1/31/2008 2:34:00 PM |

    Hi Neelesh,

    I think that the study concluded that the GTE  had no lasting effect beyond its excretion in the urine, with an elimination 1/2 life of 2 hours.

    There is no suggestion that meat plus GTE did any better than meat without GTE. It was a cross over study, so both groups got 3 weeks on GTE and 3 weeks off GTE.

    Their conclusion was that GTE supplementation made no difference to any measured parameter.

    As the GTE made no difference to antioxidant status (except transiently in the immediately post consumption period), the only hypothesis ultimately tested was whether fruit and veg elimination reduces oxidative stress.

    So comparing a meat plus GTE diet with a veg plus GTE diet is a little pointless.

    I would agree that you could argue that GTE does much more in the absence of meat, but I would want some logic as to how that might happen. I don't see why this should be the case.

    In this study we had a group of people acting as their own controls, drop the veggies, oxidation reduces, reintroduce the veggies, oxidation increases. Forget the GTE. It looks very simple to me, but then I'm a simple person.

    I as far as I can see the full text downloads for free. It does deserve careful reading. The EU was a major funder of the study and this funder was VERY unhappy with the results. From the EU's comments, linked to the asterisk at the end of the title, it looks to me as though the authors fought their funders tooth and nail to publish. It's a good study.

    Peter

  • promit

    8/31/2008 10:49:00 AM |

    I am a 34 year old male South Asian, who recently had a mild MI (troponin returned a negative, but my doctors confirmed an MI). Subsequently, I had an angiography which revealed an occlusion in the right coronary artery (RCA). All other fields (leftmain, LAD) etc were normal. I underwent a PTCA (coronary angioplasty) which opened up the block. I was not administered any stents, as the doctor felt that the thrombus would clear on its own.

    This was exactly 3 months ago. About 2 weeks ago, I went through a lipid profile test, along with some other tests the doctor prescribed (liver function test, Lp(a)). It was here that it was revealed that my Lp(a) was at 115 mg/dl. All along, all my risk factors were negative (blood pressure, blood sugar, lipids, and the only high figure was a marginally high cholesterol of 222). Finally, the doctor was able to put his finger on why this happened to me.

    He has now put me on Niacin, alongwith my statin (Tonact 20) and Clopivas tablets. I understand that Lp(a) is largely genetic, and not really fixable through lifestyle changes. I must mention that my cholestrol has come down to 94 from a value of 222 after I have been on medication, a healthy diet, and exercise, all of which I am maintaining with some rigor.

    I would like to know:

    1. Where do I stand on the Lp(a) thing? Is there anything I can do to help my cause? Just how bad is it? Am I unlikely to live very long, or develop further complications?

    2. Is it safe for me to have children? Will I be passing on this condition? What are the chances that my child will be unhealthy?

    3. I like to have a drink of beer occasionally. I have got a green signal from my doc a month or so ago to have the odd drink. Is it ok if its beer, and not wine, as he has recommended? Is it ok if I have  2 pints (each pint 330 ml) about 2-3 times a week?

    4. My Triglyceride levels are quite low (90). Also, my HDLC is currently at 30, and LDLC is 46, while VLDLC is 18. The LDLC/HDLC ratio is 1.53. Also CPK is 124 u/L. All other tests have returned normal values. F.B Sugar is 77 mg/dl. Fasting Urine Sugar is Nil. Blood Pressure is normal, I am not obese. There is no history of heart disease in the family known prior to this. I have quit smoking (I was a heavy smoker, about 20-30 cigerettes daily).

  • Anonymous

    12/8/2009 7:49:00 AM |

    promit,
    hope you've been reading this blog carefully! good luck

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