I would like to know if this works with iced green tea as well. I used a method of one meal per day to loose 50+ pounds. I found it pretty easy, all in all, but have regained about 20 now and need to get back on it. I think I will give iced green tea a try! (I'm not crazy about hot green tea, but like it fine iced)

I use tea as a method of extending eating intervals.  It works well.  I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the "upper" effect.  Ie.  uppers reduce appetite as a result of blocked sensory.

I find fasting and sensory blocking to be counter-productive.

May be other effects but caffeine and it's cousin theobromine in the tea are pretty reliable appetite suppressants.  But isn't getting jacked up (even if only a little) a bit counter productive to some of the potential benefits of fasting?  The idea is to rest your physiology while catabolism is in full swing. Activating the sympathetic nervous system so you don't have to experience the sensations you don't like during the early stages of fasting does not seem to me to really promote that.

Yes, green tea reduces my hunger; I just use Tetley in the bag. Some of the greens do not have a satiating effect on me, nor do any of the black teas. Coffee increases hunger for me. Bullion cubes or OXO packets also help. I make a 1.5 l thermos, and suck on that until its done. Some days 3 or 4 of them in a day. I think I have more hunger than most people, but I am down 55 kgs, 2 to 4 years ago and have been down for 2 years.

The other thing that helps me is chew-able Vitamin C, a couple of 500s any time I feel hungry. It seems to raise BG, possible due to BG sparing, as it is required for far oxidation, or inside cell far transport, depending on who is explaining. Two 500's raise my BG form 4.0 to 5.3 -- OK US 72 to 95.
I am off wheat mostly; occasionally Clam chowder, sausages, and a few crackers for low BG issues. One cracker raises BG 1.5 at 15 mins.

Thanks for the one hour BG idea. Some of my higher protein meals were a problem, like 280 Calories of canned salmon ran my BG to 9.0 (OK 162). And my doctor says I an not diabetic but my a.m. BG sure is erratic, 4.0 to 6.2 this week.

My experience is similar.

Chris

Hey Phyllis, I'm with you. I have been drinking 4 cups green tea made with tea bags and then chilled and have noticed that I'm not as hungry but didn't really connect it with the tea itself. I need to lose 50 lbs and I like the idea of one meal a day.

Green tea, or any tea actually, makes me a little ill on an empty stomach.  Not sure but believe it is the tannins.  I also was consuming a lot of green/white tea while fasting and I just felt really acidic and my face got red splotches, which seems to coincide with acidity.  I know the net result is supposed to be alkaline for green/white tea but that has not been my experience.  Recently, I've been adding a tablespoon of apple cider vinager to a cup of warm water.  Went a fairly easy 18 hours today but did break down and had four or five macadamia nuts around 12 hours in.

I absolutely drink green and lightly oxidized oolongs during my fasts.   It curbs the hunger and provides focus.  Been doing it for 2.5 years.

After millennia of human starvation, to think that we still have tons to learn about fasting used for health purposes!

Phyllis--While I've not tried it personally, nor do I know of any formal data, I expect that iced green tea--provided it is real brewed green tea, and not the bottled variety--should work every bit as well.

I am unable to drink green tea at all on an empty stomach, I will absolutely throw up if I do.  I end up with pullovertothesideoftheroadI'mgoingtopukeyesseriously!".   I actually threw up all over my suit once which was really special.  Green tea with food often makes me queasy as well.  I am allergic to oak so I think there may be a tannin connection as some heavy oak wines are problematic for me.

I am making today a fast day. I have been drinking a mix of green and white tea but it is decaffeinated.  How often should one fast?

For those who get dizzy on green tea, try puerh tea.  It is a fermented green tea that is also much lower in caffeine and it taste much better than green.  It is the equivalent of drinking an aged red wine over 2 buck chuck.

This question has been around for quite some time,  but no one seems to know the answer for certain.

Theoretically at least, consuming antioxidants during fasting could be detrimental to autophagy (removing "junk" cells), since antioxidants might suppress the stress response from fasting. This is why some studies show antioxidants and exercise are a bad combination -- you *want* some stress to happen so that the body can adapt to it.

Then again, there is the theory that small amounts of antioxidants actually work through the same mechanism as fasting and exercise -- hormesis. In which case fasting + antioxidants might complement each other. But that's just speculation.

What we do know from studies is that green tea seems to increase weight loss, for example when combined with calorie restriction (and thus should apply to fasting):

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-increases-weight-loss-during.html

And when combined with exercise:

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/03/green-tea-extract-increases-insulin.html
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-tea-extract-enhances-abdominal.html

And when combined with capsaicin (from chilli pepper), it reduces the feeling of hunger and thus calorie intake:

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-and-capsaicin-reduce-hunger.html

So all in all, whatever the mechanism is, if you're fasting just for the sake of losing weight, I'd say green tea is a pretty good bet.

- JLL

Would depend on the length of fasts, but the East Stop East method advocates two fasts per week.  My fasts are now usually shorter, as they kind of trained me to stop grazing. I usually don't bother with breakfast now. The more you eat, the more you want to eat sometimes.

I'm subscribed to your blog, but since  you changed format the posts haven't been showing up in my mail box.  I tried to re-subscribe, but am told I'm already subscribed.  How do I get back in the loop?

Nina

Anyone not receiving email versions of this blog:

I wonder if the shift over to the new platform caused a few glitches. My blog IT help is out of commission temporarily. Therefore, please sign up again at the top.

Sorry about that.

Yes, I completely agree with you! I went 90% wheat and sugar free from November 2010 to February 2011 and lost a whopping 2 pounds. It wasn't until I went to 95% or more wheat free that I was able to start losing weight. I am now 100% wheat free and I have lost 36.2 pounds in 15 weeks. I have also been able to significantly cut my caloric intake to 500-700 calories per day (sometimes less than 500) using iced jasmine green tea. I truly believe that a diet that is lower in calories is better for health. I typically drink 6-8 glasses a day and I really enjoy it. It helps immensely with any hunger I may have and completely satisfies my sense to eat. I use any of the varieties available in tea bag (Numi, Two Leaves and a Bud, Stash, and Mighty Leaf are my favorites). I typically choose whatever's on sale. I also drink a full glass every morning prior to eating and that also seems to stimulate my colon which is a bonus as well when consuming such low caloric counts.

On a cholesterol and BG level, my family genetics are something that should be studied. While I started my diet at 234.8# on 2/15/2011 (I'm 5'3" and 47 y/o female) my total cholesterol was 167 and my HDL was 54. My 102 y/o grandmother however, has a total cholesterol of 155 and an HDL of 115! My 76 y/o mother also has the same great results but her HDL is "only" 109. Neither of them are on any medication for cholesterol and both of them eat a diet fully based on things we berate on this blog (cookies, bread, ice cream, fried foods, etc). Neither are overweight either. I'm eager to see what my levels become when I reach my goal weight. Maybe I can surpass that HDL of 115!

I tried that before I posted and it tells me I'm already subscribed.

Nina

About 15 years ago I went on a fast and had only water.  The fast lasted for 10 days.  No green tea.  Just water.  After 18 hours, I completely lost any hunger.  Meanwhile I continued to cook meals for my family.  I also continued to go to work every day.

The experience seemed wonderful.  I had been suffering badly from asthma, and all symptoms disappeared!  I could have kept going forever without eating.  However, after 10 days I started to have problems with urination.  I began excreting small, hard pellets.

I went to the doctor, and he exploded.  "You bloody fool!" he said.  I had altered the ketone content of my blood.

So I started eating again.  My first meal was brown rice (no salt).  It was the most beautiful meal I ever had.  Gradually I returned to normal eating.  Gradually I returned to my asthma symptoms. Gradually all meals started tasting the same.

Did I lose weight?  I'm not sure, as my ketone problem overshadowed all else.  Did I need green tea or anything else to curb my appetite?  No, plain water (not even distilled or bottled water, but tap water) was good enough. Do I recommend fasting?  In moderation.  10 days is far too long.

Is the fluoride content of any tea (Camellia sinensis) not an issue?  Data on ppm fluoride vary but they all appear to be quite high and much higher than water fluoridation levels.

Try Jasmine Tea which is green tea with Jasmine flowers.  Much tastier.
I don't like plain green tea myself, but I love Jasmine tea.

There is only one problem with green tea: Pesticides.
Most green tea is imported from India or China because it is the cheapest. On testing, a serious amount of pesticides, fungicides, microcides is found regularly. I wonder if this diminishes the health aspect of green tea.
I used to buy organic green tea from Japan but after Fukushima that option is also out.
Still, certified organic is the only option left, I suppose.
Renfrew

Just tried again and I get the same message 'You're already subscribed'.  Pity that Feedburner no longer delivers to me.

Nina

Started IF HFLC diet three months ago. 30 lbs lost and A1c down to
5.1 !! (was 6.7 ) . Curiously I have been drinking green tea during the daily 18 hour fasts and hunger is a rare occurance,  hunger pains last only a few seconds. The tea helps,  body and mind trained to not think about food until
nightly free for all. Thank you, Dr. Davis and contributors>

2 Gabriella

Flouride IS an issue with green tea. There are known cases of flourde poisoning with excessive green tea drinking - woman drinking equivalent of 20-30 green tea cups per day. This isn't something to worry about on regular usage but if you do it on IF with reduced nutrient input and more frequently to reduce appetite it can become a problem.

White tea has lower content of fluoride as it is harvested when plant is still young. It is much more expensive but overall better then green tea due to less processing and lower fluoride content.

Coffee works for me absolutely amazing in reducing hunger. To some people, however, it works the opposite way. My friend develops hand tremor, nervousness, and heat. The same thing she got from the green tea but not other teas. Caffeine might be problematic for some I guess, or maybe tannin. We are currently in the process of isolation of such substance.

To reduce appetite, I found the following valuable:
- Garlic, fresh, in tomato juice (parsley can be included to block the smell). The capsule doesn't work.
- High intensity exercise, short bursts of 15-20 minutes will shut down digestive engine and you will not be able to eat for hour at least.
- Marijuana restriction - its usage during fat loss might be problematic due to activation of CB1/anandamide system.
- Periodic IF can learn body to handle prolonged food abstinence. I find that 16-24 hours fast is enough.
- Almonds, 10-15g, are cool, especially if you tend to go crazy before sleep - its mostly fat which doesn't rise insulin during night. 2g CHO, 3.5g MUFA, 1g PUFA, 2g P is enough to make your hunger go down at least a bit and still keep your insulin down.
- Water

I would suggest extensive supplementation during IF - especially Vit C (at least 2g as frequent as possible), Mg, Iodine, Selenium, Idebenon.

Drs. Davis or Taylor (or anyone else) have you noticed any issues with accumulated caffeine intake from multiple cups of Green Tea throughout the day?

Dr. Davis, I hadn't heard about the dangers of pesticide use relating to green tea (as mentioned by Renfew, above)...is this a viable concern?  Since green tea is loaded with antioxidants, do the benefits outweigh the risks in this case?

I have been drinking about two to three cups of Tazo Zen Green Tea for quite awhile now (hot, as well as chilled), and enjoy it very much.  It does seem to curb cravings quite well.  I also notice increased energy without the edgy side effects that coffee sometimes causes.  Before Tazo, I was not a big fan of the taste of green tea, but the Zen blend also contains lemon verbena, spearmint leaves and lemongrass, which enhances the flavor and makes it quite delicious--providing an "aromatherapy experience" along with the tea consumption.  

Thank you for your informative comment JLL!

me too!i keep hearing about green tea for fasting, so i took it on day 2 i think and was detoxing to fast cos i took it on a empty stomach....:/

I drink the Tazo Zen Green Tea from Starbucks. I prefer this green tea over any others, however I have noticed extreme dizziness when I drink this tea. Has anyone experienced this? I even bought the tea bags to brew at home, I do not add any sweetener and love the taste. I occasionally drink black tea or soda and do not get the same dizzy feeling, therefore I believe it is not caffeine causing me to feel dizzy it's just green tea. Any suggestions or comments? I like the benefits of green tea but not sure it's worth the dizziness.

Wacky. No, I'm not sure why this happens.

Perhaps its some mixture or proportion of the theaflavins or other components. There are hundreds of green tea preparations available. It might be worth finding a happy alternative.

I have been using green tea for years in weight loss.  You are right, it is not a "speedy" remedy and you will only recognize small affects it has, however, it does work.  On average, it is said that you can burn anywhere from 70 to 80 calories a day drinking green tea.  This is assuming you are drinking at least 3 to 4 cups daily.  It should be combined with water and a healthy diet and exercise.

About the dizziness, I had severe vertigo in the middle of the night, i.e. at 3 am (my blood pressure was 130/100 pr 90), and the day and the night before sleeping, I consumed 4 mugs of green tea. The vertigo was associated with vomiting (which relieved the vertigo for a while). The vertigo lasted till the next day (vomited 4x). The green tea was a gift from a friend who came back from China-loose dried leaves. After that episode, I think I can't make myself to drink green tea again.

I sometimes do a morning 'flush' of green tea, up to 4 freshly brewed mugfuls, with the addition of a squeeze of fresh lemon, which complements the taste and gives extra benefits, vitamin c and supporting detoxification.

I recently saw a BBC documentary which demonstrated an optimal brew time of 7 minutes for maximum anti-oxidant release.

Also, the cooled teabags are an excellent beauty treatment for the eye area, squeeze excess moisture and relax for a few minutes.

Am reluctant to extend beyond midday due to stimulating effect of caffeine, how about switching to other teas that deliver other useful benefits? Ginger, fennel, liquorice come to mind.

Blessings of health

Interesting that we just need to refine the notion of "good and bad cholesterol," and it seems to be about particle size, not density. Are lp(a) small? Is there a treatment that converts small LDL to benign LDL but doesn't raise HDL?

Keith.

Lp(a) particle size tracks LDL particle size. Small, dense LDL therefore occurs with small, dense Lp(a) (referring to the LDL part of Lp(a), not the apo(a) portion).

Small LDL responds to the same treatments that raise HDL. I do not know of any treatments that diverge on this point with the exception of alcohol, which principally raises HDL.

That's an eye opener. In England all we get is LDL, HDL and trigylceride reports, and even then the decision to put someone on statins varies between doctors and deviates from guidelines. It's all messed up.

Just to deliver some more from Trevor Marshall (against vit D), what's your opinion of this article? It's a lengthy one. http://bacteriality.com/2008/01/26/cad/
I'm guessing the reason this has shown effect is not really the reduction of vitamin D but antibiotics that mimic it's effects. Do note that the author of that author is biased because she follows Marshall.

Every so often, a kooky idea comes along that seizes the attentions of the fringes. Linus Pauling and high-dose vitamin C to cure heart disease, cancer, and most human illnesses was this way. Nanobacteria did this. Chelation is another.

From what I've read of the so-called Marshall Protocol, I would lump this with the above.

The focus of this blog and the www.trackyourplaque.com website is reduction of coronary calcium scores and regression of coronary plaque. I do not think that we need to invoke these sorts of ideas and reinvent the wheel to accommodate the rants of people like this.

By the way, the article states that the causes of heart disease are not often revealed by conventional cholesterol values. I heartily agree with this. The answers will be found in lipoprotein analysis and associated laboratory and lifestyle examination. It is not in antibiotics.

I did find a web site that outlined the risks for someone that follows the Marshall Protocol. I should point too that Dr. Marshall is not a MD.

http://lassesen.com/cfids/MarshallProtocolRisks.htm

    *  Major risk of Addison Syndrome (5%-25% of CFS that complete the protocol)
    * Increased risk (100 300%) of Heart Attack
    * Increased risk (100+%) of Cancer (Breast, Colon and Prostate are well documented)
    * Increased risk (67+%) of Multiple Sclerosis
    * Increased risk (400+%) of Diabetes
    * Increased risk of Depression
    * Increased risk (500+%) of Osteoarthritis and Osteoporosis
    * Increased risk of nephrotic syndrome, schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder.
    * Increased risk of Hyperparathyroidism
    * Increased risk of Crohn Disease and Sjogren's syndrome
    * Increased risk of Rheumatoid Arthritis
    * Increased risk of Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
    * May cause fetal and neonatal morbidity and death
    * Risk of Angioedema

Another from the UK!  I've often wondered how cholesterol is measured in a standard lab (as described my moblogs)   If cholesterol is contained within or is a part of a lipoprotein, how on earth do they separate out the different contents of the lipoproeins and then measure them with any precision?

Of course, LDL is NOT measured.

The other cholesterol fractions are measured enzymatically and separated by density.

I looked at the article linked by mobloogs.  At first I was surprised it didn't list his background like it did the others it mentioned, until I looked around the site and realized the whole site is just a PR piece for Marshall.  The site states Trevor Marshall, Ph.D., is a biomedical researcher.
His site http://trevormarshall.com/ says "Prof. Marshall is currently a Director of the Autoimmunity Research Foundation, an Adjunct Professor of the School of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology, Murdoch University (Western Australia)"
Wikipedia lists him as "Trevor Marshall received his PhD in Electrical Engineering from the University of Western Australia in 1984 [3]. He also possesses an undergraduate and a masters (1978) degree in Electrical Engineering.[4]"
Murdoch dosn't show him on their research page
http://www.bsb.murdoch.edu.au/research/interests/

Thanks Dr Davis  (anon from the UK)

Dr. Davis - I have been a faithful reader of your blog for about a year and try to follow your protocol for plaque reduction even though I have not been able to afford a CT Heart Scan.   I did have a lipoprotein breakdown and believed that Vitamin D, Fish Oil, and Vitamin K are very important.   My Vit D level was 36 while taking 2,000IU of Carlson's capsules.  I doubled it to 4,000IU and my blood level went to 48.   I then decided to try to get it closer to 60, so I started taking 6,000IU back in Sept.  I have a lot of cancer in my family history, have already been diagnosed with borderline osteopenia (-2.0) and fear heart disease, so Vitamin D seemed the logical thing to supplement up to a blood level of 60-70.   Then...

In December I came down with a c-diff infection out the blue, my immune system now seems to be in really bad shape which is a complete shock to me, a self-proclaimed health nut who strives to eat right, exercise and take multiple supplements.  I am really devastated to think I might have done this to myself.

A few weeks ago I ran across this new study indicating that high Vitamin D doses could harm the immune system.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080125223302.htm

Please comment on this study to ease my mind....I dropped back to 2,000IU a day of the D supplement as I'm scared to death!
Thanks,
Noreen

I've commented on this bit of nonsense several times, both here and in the Track Your Plaque forum. It is patent nonsense based on the rants of a single man. Yes, there is a sliver  of science in his comments, but nothing more. Vit D has nothing to do with catching an infectious bacterial disease in the gastrointestinal tract.

Thank you Dr. Davis -- I felt like you would have an unbiased opinion on this.  Its just scarey to read about immunosuppression, especially when you seem to be suffering from it!   I've also had a flu-like episode and a cold since the first of Dec!  

I feel like I am literally starving myself on (ugh) white bread, white potatoes and white rice, but thats all I can eat at this time.   Things I haven't eaten in over 5 years!

Thanks for clarifying the Vitamin D issue.  I'll go back to my 6,000IU dose.

Noreen (who is healing slowly)

Knowing that Pam has Lp(a) can point us in an entirely different direction than just LDL cholesterol. It might mean high-dose fish oil, a more serious approach to niacin, hormonal treatments like DHEA or testosterone. It might mean more attention to warning your children about the possibility that they, too, might share this genetic trait.