Fish oil and the perverse logic of hospitals

Hospitals are now starting to carry prescription fish oil, known as Omacor, on their formularies. It's used by some thoracic surgeons after bypass surgery, since fish oil has been shown to reduce the likelihood of atrial fibrillation (a common rhythm after heart surgery).

Why now? The data confirming the benefits of fish oil on atrial fibrillation has been available for several years.

It's now available in hospitals because it's FDA-approved. In other words, when fish oil was just a supplement, it was not available in most hospitals. Whenever I've tried to get fish oil for my patients while in hospital, you'd think I was trying to smuggle Osama Bin Laden into the place. The resistance was incredible.

Now that FDA-approved Omacor is available, costing $130 dollars per month for two capsules, $195 for the three capsule per day dose for after surgery, all of a sudden it becomes available. Why would this irrational state of affairs occur in hospitals?

Several reasons, most of which revolve around the great suspicion my colleagues have towards nutritional supplements. In addition, there's the litigation risk: If something has been approved by the FDA, their stamp of endorsement provides some layer of legal protection.

However, I regard those as pretty weak reasons. I am, indeed, grateful that fish oil is gaining a wider audience. But I think it's absurd that it requires a prescription to get it in many hospitals. Imagine, as the drug companies would love, vitamin C became a prescription agent. Instead of $3, it would cost far more. Does that make it better, safer, more effective?

Of course, no drug sales representative is promoting the nutritional supplement fish oil to physicians nor to hospitals. I now see people adding the extraordinary expense of prescription fish oil to their presription bills.

In my view, it's unnecessary, irrational, and driven more by politics and greed than actual need. Take a look at the website for Omacor (www.omacorrx.com). Among the claims:

"OMACOR is the only omega-3 that, along with diet, has been proven and approved to dramatically reduce very high triglycerides..."

This is a bald lie. Dozens of studies have used nutritional supplement fish oil and shown spectacular triglyceride-reducing effects.

Their argument against fish oil supplements:

"Dietary supplements are not FDA-approved for the treatment of any specific disease or medical condition. Get the Facts: nonprescription, dietary supplement omega-3 is not a substitute for prescription OMACOR."

Does that make any sense to you? Should you buy a GM car because only GM makes genuine GM cars? This is the silly logic being offered by these people to justify their ridiculous pricing.

How about: "The unique manufacturing process for OMACOR helps to eliminate worries about mercury and other pollution from the environment."

Funny...mercury in fish tends to be sequestered in the meat, not the oil. Independent reports by both Consumer Reports and Consumer Lab found no mercury, nor PCB's, in nutritional supplement fish oil. But just suggesting a difference without proving it may be enough to scare some people.

Just because something is used by a hospital does not make it better. The adoption of fish oil is hospitals is a good thing. Too bad it has to add to already bloated health care costs to enrich some drug manufacturer.

Comments (6) -

  • Cindy

    1/4/2007 3:38:00 AM |

    I'm not surprised at all. I've "met" people on forums that are on this, and they rave about how much better it is than non-prescription fish oil.

    Reminds me of years ago, when patients were given (in my area) "Anacin" in the hospital, then would ONLY take it for pain....other brands, or heaven forbid generic just didn't work as well!

    Amazing, huh?

    On the other hand, like you say, at least now they're giving it to patients.

    Now how about Mg? CoQ10? Are they starting to show up too?

  • Soundhunter

    1/4/2007 9:31:00 AM |

    Not sure if you find this interesting or not, but after stumbling on your blog not knowing anything about Pectus Excavatum, I went googlin' and got a bit depressed, as it's not as benign a malformation as I was led to believe.

    But I found this site http://www.ctds.info/pectus_excavatum.html which suggests that Vit D deficiency/rickets causes the malformation in many cases, and also that celiac disease might cause rickets in some due to malabsorbtion of vitamins/minerals etc.  I thought it was interesting as you've been posting about wheat and vitamin D and heart health, while perhaps they are also necessary for chest wall health.  I take heparin and low dose aspirin while pregnant to prevent fetal demise due to antiphospholipid antibody syndome (aware of that? causes blood clots), but I'm wondering if it somehow inhibited Vit D absorbtion in me when pregnant, couldn't have been a normal deficiency I was gardening in the sun during the entire pregnancy and I don't use sun block. I assume some of your patients are on blood thinners as I was? I know it effects calcium.

    As for fish oils, Udo's blends are supposed to be incredible, several moms I know use it on themselves for exhaustion and over all health, and many moms swear that fish oils have helped their toddlers with speech delays.

    Let me know if you'd rather I didn't yammer at your blog, I've linked to it from my little blog because I find your blog fascinating.

    Happy 2007

  • Soundhunter

    1/4/2007 10:08:00 AM |

    As for hospitals, well, there's a reason homebirthers and women into birth politics are as passionately anti-hospital as they are, many bad medical practises continue in the litigation crazed society of the USA medical system, from what I read. Forward thinking countries like Germany and Sweden incorporate natural remedies and holistic medicine right in with the mainstream medical system...great role models for us north americans, but impossible in a litigation-mad culture. But, the pharmaceutical companies are to blame too, though that discussion requires tin oil hats.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/4/2007 4:45:00 PM |

    Coenzyme Q10, no. Magnesium, yes. In fact, magnesium is pretty routinely checked and replaced via intravenous supplementation to avoid diarrhea. However, magnesium levels are checked because of heart rhythm disorders, not for general health.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/4/2007 4:46:00 PM |

    I know of no interaction between blood thinners and vitamin D. However, you're absolutely right on the increased likelihood of vitamin D deficiency in the presence of bowel diseases like celiac.

  • Cindy

    1/6/2007 5:47:00 PM |

    I use RxList.com to check any and all medications I am prescribed (or friends/family are prescribed).

    This about Omacor on their site:
    The empirical formula of DHA ethyl ester is C24H36O2, and the molecular weight of DHA ethyl ester is 356.55. Omacor®  capsules also contain the following inactive ingredients: 4 mg α-tocopherol (in a carrier of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils including soybean oil), and gelatin, glycerol, and purified water (components of the capsule shell).

    I mentioned in another comment that I am intolerant to soy, so I avoid it whenever possible.....but to put hydrogenated oils in a preparation touted as "pure"????

    I realise it's a very small amount....but from what I've read on trans-fats, the only amount of transfat that is good for us is NONE!!!

    Of course, the AHA also promotes foods that contain transfats in their "No Fad Diet" (see Regina Wilshire's blog post here: http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2005/07/aha-includes-trans-fats-in-heart.html)

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A used car lot on every street corner

A used car lot on every street corner

Imagine that, every day, a parade of used-car salesmen knock on your front door to sell you a special "deal". Day in, day out they knock, expecting you to hear about their offers openly.

Is there any doubt about their intentions or motives? Of course not. They're just trying to profit from selling you a car.

That's how it is in a medical office nowadays. Drug representatives, 5, 6, or more each and every day, promoting drugs. Except that the profits from drugs are far greater than a used automobile, and there's a third party involved in the transaction: you.

Today, a pushy representative came to my office. My staff and I tried to tell him that I was not interested in speaking to him. But he proved such a nuisance that I finally came out to tell him that I objected to the idea of drug reps just hanging around trying to hawk their wares.

He blurted, "Doctor, do you have patients with angina? Our new drug, ranolazine, is perfect. Forget about nitroglycerin, beta blockers, and all that. Here's the latest study proving it's better." He tried to shove a reprint of the study at me.

Getting to the bottom line, I asked, "What does it cost the patient?"

"Well, the co-pay is between $40 and $60. We're not yet well covered by insurance, so it'll cost patients around $200 a month."

Need I say more? Here's a drug that does little more than help relieve anginal chest pains. It doesn't reverse coronary plaque. It won't avoid heart attack, death, or procedures. It just modestly cuts back on the frequency of chest pain. And all for the cost of a single heart scan--a heart scan that could have prevented the entire cascade of symptoms/procedures/medication/hospitalization etc.

Hospitals, drug companies, medical device manufacturers. They're all businesses that thrive on your doctor's failure to detect and control your coronary plaque. Sometimes, even your doctor is part of this conspiracy to squeeze dollars out of human disease. Don't fall for it.
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Vitamin K2, aspirin, fish oil and blood thinning

Vitamin K2, aspirin, fish oil and blood thinning

An interesting question came up from one of our Track Your Plaque Members on the Forum.

"I am now taking 9 mg of vitamin K1 and 1000 mcg of K2.

Does taking this supplement with this much K1 have a counteracting effect on the thinning/anticlotting properties of aspirin and fish oil that I also take?"


Great question (along with lots of other greater discussions we have on the Forum.)

The answer: Vitamin K should have no effect on the platelet-blocking effects of aspirin or fish oil. The majority of blood clot inhibiting effects of aspirin and fish oil arise from their ability to keep blood platelets from "clumping" (just like the TV commercials for Plavix).

Vitamin K, on the other hand, participates in the liver production of blood clotting factors (like II, VII, IX, and X, among others for you curious ones).

Thus, vitamin K-dependent clotting factors and platelet-blocking are two separate pathways to forming blood clots. Some of us refer to the difference as "red clots" from the vitamin K pathway and "white clots" from the platelet pathway, since they really do have this different physical appearance.

The vitamin K2 conversation, like that about vitamin D, is fascinating for its potential to provide the missing link between the tightly-tied fortunes of bone health and atherosclerosis. Why is someone with a high CT heart scan score far more likely to have osteoporosis? Vitamin D and K2 deficiency may provide the missing link for many people.

Comments (12) -

  • Anonymous

    5/28/2007 2:23:00 PM |

    Dear Dr. Davis;   thank you so much for your blog...praying you reach many people.

  • Anne

    5/28/2007 8:06:00 PM |

    Is there a test for K2 deficiency? I have both osteoporosis and CAD. I have asked my doctors about vitamin K, but neither could tell me anything about it.

    What is the difference between K1 and K2?

    Great blog. Thank you.

  • Dr. Davis

    5/29/2007 1:25:00 AM |

    Anne--
    I have not yet been able to find a laboratory that makes K2 measurements available. However, it is a safe assumption that, unless you ingest fermented traditional cheeses (not Velveeta, etc.), pate or liver, or natto (blechh!), then there's an excellent chance you are deficient. To my knowledge, there is also no definition of deficiency, even if we were able to obtain a blood value. This will unfold over the next two years as data trickles out and experience accumulates.

  • Cindy

    6/3/2007 1:40:00 AM |

    What is a good dose for Vitamin K? Sine I'm not much of a cheese eater, or liver for that matter, I figure it can't hurt to take a supplement....but have no idea how much to take!

  • Dr. Davis

    6/3/2007 2:51:00 AM |

    The problem is that there is no dose.
    Based on available data, we have been advocating a dose of 1000 mcg (1 mg) per day, though the evidence is, admittedly, slim to support this specific dose. Changes are possible--probable--in future, as the experience develops.

  • BelieveIt

    2/12/2008 2:30:00 AM |

    Vitamin K test available at http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=4131&query=vitamin%20k%20testing&hiword=VITAM%20VITAMER%20VITAMERS%20VITAMI%20VITAMINA%20VITAMINC%20VITAMIND%20VITAMINE%20VITAMINES%20VITAMINIC%20VITAMINK%20VITAMINS%20k%20testing%20vitamin%20

    Differences between K1 & K2 also discussed at http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=1152&query=VIT%20K1%20K2&hiword=K1%20K2%20VIT%20

    aCCORDING TO THE ABOVE:  Tufts University tests the vitamin content of foods for the U.S. Department of Agriculture which maintains a database. Not too long ago, new technology allowed a more precise determination of the vitamin K content of food. Using the new technology, Tufts researcher Dr. Sarah Booth discovered that the vitamin K content of most foods is lower than researchers previously thought.

    Green leafy vegetables supply 40-50% of vitamin K for most Americans. Vegetable oils are the next highest source. Hydrogenated oils (margarine, for example) create an unnatural form of K that may actually stop the vitamin from working.

    There are three different types of vitamin K: K1 which is from plants, K2 which is made by bacteria and K3 which is synthetic. Vitamin K3 is generally regarded as toxic because it generates free radicals. This version shows promise in the treatment of cancer. K2 specifically keeps calcium and phosphorus out of the aorta, and reverses the effects of heart-unfriendly diets. The body converts K1 to K2.

    Dosage and precautions

    Vitamin K is not stored in the body, and is therefore nontoxic in high amounts. Forty-five milligrams a day were used in osteoporosis studies without any ill effect. Vitamin K has been approved in Japan for the treatment of osteoporosis since 1995. Several thousand times more than what people are currently getting in their diet has been taken without any toxicity. Dosage depends on an individual's diet, age, whether they are taking drugs, and what stressors are present. Generally, 10 mg/day is recommended.

    If you want to get your vitamin K level tested, request the osteocalcin test. It is much more reliable than coagulation tests. The osteocalcin test measures how much carboxylated osteocalcin you have. Since carboxylation is dependent on vitamin K, this test will give you a good idea of your vitamin K status, and whether or not you're headed for osteoporosis and possibly heart disease.

  • Anonymous

    1/16/2009 11:29:00 PM |

    An article at the Weston Price Foundation suggests that high amounts of vitamin K1 supplementation might not be correct. The author states:

    These results show that our absorption of the vitamin [k1] declines as the amount we consume increases and strengthens the interpretation that we might only be able to absorb about 200 micrograms per day. [of K1 from vegtables] …

    Preliminary evidence indicates that doses of 1000 micrograms per day of supplemental K1 may contribute to periodontal disease,31 suggesting that our bodies' resistance to absorbing this much K1 from vegetables may serve an important purpose.

    www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamin-k2.html

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2009 2:49:00 PM |

    My mother-in-law is taking nattokinase for blood clot protection and disolving a clot in her caratoid retinal artery. Would taking K2 with natto kinase interfere with the clot disolving action of nattokinase?

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2009 2:51:00 PM |

    My motherinlaw is taking nattokinase and k2 together. She had a clot in her retinal artery causing some vision loss. Would taking k2 together with nattokinase dimish of help the nattokinase effect of disolving this blood clot?

  • Sal

    7/29/2009 4:52:05 AM |

    Dear Mr Davis

    Iam  lately diagnosed with arterial calcification in my lower limbs. I have no diabetes, no cholestrol issues nor any kidney or blood pressure issues, yeah I do have some anxiety.

    Please tell me whether taking vitamin k2 supplements would help. Also is there a test to find out if I am defecient in vitamink. What is the best supplement I can take.
    Thanks

    Kindest Regards
    Salim Khatri

  • Anonymous

    11/19/2009 2:30:39 AM |

    Actually, aspirin is a vitamin K antagonist. It is sort of silly to take an antagonist AND vitamin K.
    Further, if aspirin effectively blocks the K from working, the aspirin is maybe preventing platelets from clumping, but preventing inappropriate calcium deposition and therefore leading (over a long time) to arteriosclerosis and therefore CVD.
    Vitamin K2 is made by bacteria and found in fermented foods and animal organ meats. These are two food groups that have strong cultural ties, but they are lost as various cultures have blended into the American culture of some pretty heinous foods.
    So eat sausage, sauerkraut, pickles, natto, kimchee, organ meats and avoid pasteurized of the above and this may kill the bacteria that are making the K2.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 10:32:34 PM |

    Vitamin K, on the other hand, participates in the liver production of blood clotting factors (like II, VII, IX, and X, among others for you curious ones).

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