I'm finishing a jar of "dry" (not oil suspended) Vitamin D3 capsules and taking them with enteric coated fish oil. Might the enteric coating prevent the fish oil from helping the "dry" D3 absorption?

Really interesting post. I think I'm sensitive to wheat, but can't seem to stop eating it right now. Once I gave it up for about two months and lost 20 pounds. I should probably try to eliminate it again. Thanks for the insight.

Interesting.  I have just the opposite experience though.  My very rare (maybe once every 6 months or so) consumption of wheat causes no obvious symptoms whatsoever though I have in the past had severe sinus allergy response to wheat/gluten

When I first went gluten-free, I was not as careful as I am now and had several incidences of acute joint pain (with incredible heat) upon exposure to minute amounts of gluten.  The last time I knowingly ate gluten (crumbs from a crouton on a salad) I woke up the next day with the most intense back pain I have ever had.  My usual response to gluten is in the form of migraines. This pain was definitely not muscle pain but neurological with squeezing pains from my spine to the front.  That was the last time I had any gluten - I am extremely careful now and I have been GF 3 years and feel so much better.   I think gluten is a poison, plain and simple, and everyone would be better off not consuming it in any way.

I'm one of the lucky ones.  I caved during the silly season and stole a couple of my sisters' delicious homemade double chocolate cookies.  Alas, no mad dashes to the procelean apparatus.

Wheat breeding sounds to be at fault for the way it's protein folds into an antigen trigger for a lot of people. Granny gave me jam with bread, pie and sugar cookies which didn't provoke malaise, but that was older breed of wheat.  

Now-a-days professional diet advice is to avoid sugar, substitue sweetener. So, many don't get that sugar binding to  the gluten protein fragments. For people with metabolic syndrome adding back in sugar doesn't make sense; they can't use it to "goop-up" the gluten. Cutting out the wheat for them solves the dilema.

Gluten are metabolized into opioids. Both the digestive system and the immune system have lots of neurons AFAIK. Is a nice system to protect the brain, I would guess. Evolution and natures way to say: Don't eat that, it'll mess you up.

Why diarrhea with wheat rechallenge etc.?
Perhaps because your bacterial intestinal flora has changed since wheat/grain elimination.

I have suffered from gastroparesis for 20+ years. Some medication has helped, but nothing has worked better than a carb/wheat free diet. If I avoid them my digestion seems fine. One cookie and within a few hours the rumbling and belching begins . . .

There's this Ethiopian restaurant here in LA. They serve a flat bread called Injera.

I must have it once or twice a year, I tell you, I must! Even though it causes sores in my mouth by the next morning. It never did that when I was eating wheat regularly. Now that I've given up wheat, BAM! Sores!

Otherwise, I'm a sore-free, wheat-free good boy the rest of the year.

Dr. Davis,

Great post.  I believe I have experienced exactly what you described.  I gave up drinking beer (my only grain) last summer and recent grain encounters led to stomach pain and quick trips to the bathroom.  One time I felt really sick for hours.

There are never a shortage of reasons to avoid grains.

@ Anonymous,
I did some work in Ethiopia in 1970 & ate a lot of Injera;
fermented Teff grain with a soaking phase. This increases the % of Arginine amino acids in Injera. People with cold sores are often agravated by arginine foods. Your sensitive mouth tissue is probably reacting to the high level of arginine. (Your individual sensitivity would likely extend to Indian Idli, soaked/fermented rice with dhall bean puff; it's bio-converted a lot of arginine too.)

For those of us that are cutting way back on wheat in our diets, but not eliminating it - what are our best options?  I'm finding heirloom wheat flour available on the internet.  And here's an interesting article I found on Heirloom wheats:
'Are Heirloom Wheat Varieties the Next Big Baking Trend?"
http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/01/is-heirloom-wheat-the-next-big-baking-trend-jim-lahey.html

And what about Kamut?  Any comments?  Here's a write-up on it - it has some very nice features.
http://www.suite101.com/content/kamut-ancient-grain-in-modern-times-a89648

I try to avoid wheat all the time.

However, I found one bread here, that is made without Flour but uses wheat sprouts instead. The recipe is made by Russian academic scientist.
You have some English language info at

http://www.zernohleb.ru/health_eng.html

What do you think about it ?

Thx

My digestion was always lousy (but I didn't know it) until I cut out wheat.

Now if I reintroduce the reaction varies depending on the form of poison. Pasta is worst, sending the gi tract into the red zone for a week, plus migraines and sinus.

other forms (cookies, pizza) the reaction is less volcanic, but still noticeable. The baseline reaction is the sensation that the lining of my stomach has been scrubbed with a brillo pad, and sometimes joint and back pain, with a touch of sinus fun.

All this I used to think of as"normal".

Anyone have any success with enzyme products (like "Gluten Ease“) to help deal with occasional exposure?

"The majority of people who experience a wheat re-exposure syndrome will have diarrhea and cramps..."

This seems to say that of those who DO have symptoms ("experience a ... syndrome"), a majority will have diarrhea and cramps and a minority will have other symptoms.  But what proportion experience any symptoms?  Like Geoffrey above, I don't.

Wow... that just happened to me.  But only after being wheat free for like a week.  I was experimenting with a gluten free paleo diet but went out with some friends to the mall to see a movie.  I drank one beer ate 4 slices of pizza and a big cookie.  I ended up screaming at a friend over a stupid comment, nothing serious, but I felt SO angry .  Something that is not usual for me.  Then that night I woke up in the middle of the night with stomach pain and diarrhea.  
This was after just 1 week with no wheat.

I forgot to add that I had bad headaches just 30 minutes or so after eating the pizza slices too..

Don't you think this could also have something to do with the 1 in 133 statistic for celiac disease? Alot more are gluten intolerant and on down the spectrum to gluten sensitive.  

That adds up to a whole lot of people out there who are on the continuum of mere sensitivity --->celiac

That's me in a nutshell. Re-exposed to wheat and it was two days of unspeakable nastiness... I lapsed into this silliness as an experiment with the 4HB which necessitates a weekly wild day. It was wild alright...

Great post. I would love it if someone could explain the mechanism by which this re-exposure horror happens.

Since cutting out gluten, even tiny exposures have sent my stomach into paroxysms of pain. This is accompanied by nausea and an all over sick feeling, like I have been poisoned.

My bloods tested negative for coeliac though so I don't understand why I have such a bad reaction.

I am one of those people prone to headaches, migraine and colds. Usually, my first recourse is White Flower Embrocation (embrocation.50webs.com), also called White Flower Oil

How do you test for it?

Nina

I am APOE 3/4.

1. When you say fat is not good, do you mean all fats, or does the research indicate that MUFA's are helpful? Or PUFA's

2. Does Niacin affect the negative impact of the APOE 4?

3. Is it wise with APOE 4 to eat low fat, high carb? And take the niacin, and increase exercise? Or better to stay low carb higher fat and use the niacin?

Thank you.

General question. For the past year I've been trying to correct my lipid levels. One thing i've done for lunch every day is to make a shake with an apple, banana and orange, plus add a scoop of protein powder from Sam's Club. My triglycerides have skyrocketed even with taking 2 grams fish oil, healthy diet, etc. Should I not each so much fruit every day? Thanks.

Anon,

That's a lot of fruit. Add it up, and assuming that you're eating medium/average sizes of those three fruits, you're drinking down almost 50 grams of sugar at every lunch (not including the starch in the banana, which also breaks down into glucose). The fructose alone adds up to about 24 grams, which is excessive, in my view, and I don't think there's any mystery as to why your triglycerides have skyrocketed. Back off on the fruit. Eat it only occasionally, and/or pick low-fructose varieties like berries.

David

P.S. As a point of reference, a can of Coca-Cola has 23 grams of fructose.

If those were the only carbs that he's eating for the entire day, it's not that bad, although I would split it up so that he's eating a piece of fruit with each meal. There's no way someone would go from the SAD to paleo with 3 pieces of fruit and have triglycerides shoot up as a result. It would be a dramatic decrease in average blood glucose and carb intake.

Nina--

Apoprotein E needs to be specified, usually (though not necessarily) with lipoprotein analysis.


Anonymous with apo E questions--

We will be covering this issue in more detail on the Track Your Plaque website near-future (www.trackyourplaque.com).

@Travis Culp

Concerning Anonymous you say, "If those were the only carbs that he's eating for the entire day, it's not that bad."

Apparently for Anonymous it *is* that bad or his trigs would not have "skyrocketed."  Clearly what he means by "healthy diet" is suspect if he believed a fructose bomb for lunch was a good idea whilst "trying to correct my lipid levels."  So, perhaps he is eating oatmeal and whole wheat bread as part of the "healthy diet" as well, thus contributing even more to said skyrocketing triglycerides.  

However, given what he actually wrote, IMHO David's comments are spot on.

Fruit is often and easily given a pass as "healthy" when it is definitely not, particularly vis-a-vis triglycerides.

This last post by Dr. Davis leads to a question about the genetic profile of our blog community?

And I would love to be wrong about my logic.

Here we go.

Fats are apparently not good for APOE 4's which Dr Davis offers is about 19 per cent of general population. Fats make an APOE 4 worse.

But isn't the reader of this blog more likely to be an APOE 4 than 1 in five, since they are far more likely to have lipid disorders and heart plaque?

Is it not more likely our blog population has a higer percentage of APOE 4's or 2's than the general population?  So, the advice should tilt toward those genetics not the cardio protected 3/3 who should eat more fats?


Is this blog's "eat more fats, more nuts"  advice  targeted at the least likely patients to be here--meaning the APOE 3/3 who really dont have as much plaque? The ones who lipids genetics are normal and cardio protective anyway.

So should not the advice be tilted the other way around, and not toward the rarer reader and blogger who is normal 3/3 who should eat more fats? But toward the rarer (in general population) but more likely reader in a lipid disordered population who should not eat more fats?

Would it be more helpful to presume that the reader is a APOE 4or AOPE 2?

And shouldn't every one here get tested because if we are APOE 4 then we could be making ourselves worse by eating more fats? Our attempts at self protection could be hurting us badly?

Is this a good question? Or two?

Does this make sense?

@Anonymous regarding APOE 4 and this blog population:

Dr. Davis writes: "Thankfully, such "genetic incompatibilities" are uncommon. In my large practice, for instance, I have about 5 such people."

I would expect the population of Dr. Davis blog readers who have this genetic incompatibility to be less, not more, than this ratio. Certainly Dr. Davis's patients are "more likely to have lipid disorders and heart plaque" than the more random pool of readers. Dr. Davis's patients are his patients because they have heart-related issues. The population of blog readers, on the other hand, likely includes people interested in avoiding future heart problems, people with a general interest in health, etc. - all of which would tend to lower the ratio of people with these genetic incompatibilities who read this blog...

Dear Onschedule:

But if 19 per cent have APOE 4 and it causes plaque issues, why would Dr Davis have only  5 patients in many years in such a huge patient population?  

Why wouldn't he have at least 19 per cent? 1 in 5?

Why would it be rare in a heart doctor's office...... and 19 per cent, which is not rare at all, in the general population?

Am I misunderstanding this?

Does Dr. Davis test every patient for APOE ?  

If APOE 4 causes lipids issues and plaque, I tend to think there would be lots of heart patients with APOE 4 genes, not less in his pool.  But either way, at least somewhere near 19 per cent, right?

Unless I misunderstand the math?

OOPS

I amend my own comment about how common the "APOE 4 dont eat fats" patients ought to be in this blog population. It is even less rare than we thought !

I was thinking that the APOE 4 was at 19 per cent....but Dr. Davis actually states 21 per cent.

So, my argument has more weight, not less, with the corrected percentage. APOE 4 is not rare if 21 per cent have it.

Now I am confused by this.

Any help?

Why wouldnt this reader blog have the same 21 per cent as the general population, and actually more if we figure that lipid disorders ( very high in APOE 4's) drive more to this site than general.

" Peter also has another gene for Apo E4, another genetically-determined pattern shared by 19% of Americans. (Another 2% of Americans have two "doses" of Apo E4, i.e., they are homozygotes for E4.)"

Dr. Davis wasn't saying that he only has 5 patients who are ApoE4. He was saying that he only has 5 patients who have the specific combination of ApoE4 with this particular kind of Lp(a) pattern.

I would like to hear what other people with ApoE 4 have to eat. I am now both low carb and low fat. Still consuming a handful of almonds a day, hummus, and natto - these are not low-fat foods, so my next NMR won't be pretty. Also, should fish oil be counted towards daily fat intake?

Gene asks a great question.

I too would love to know what ApoE 4's should eat. Pufa, mufa, no fats?

No carbs?

Does post exercise mitigate the harm after eating offending foods?

Thanks

My understanding is that PUFA or MUFA makes no difference in this case as long as it is fat (I am talking about those with ApoE 4 here). I would rather see somebody more qualified to comment on this, though.

As to mitigating the effect of offending foods after exercise, you'll have to prick your finger to find out. At least it is what I have gathered from posts and discussions on this blog.

In my pre-TYP life, I absorbed all existing advice on diet and exercise for people with risk factors for heart disease. It is commonly believed that there is a 30-40 min-long carbohydrate window after an intensive exercise session, during which you can and should consume carbohydrates. I am not qualified to argue this point, but to know your specific response, you should check your BG.

For one, I checked my BG to see whether I can eat a spaghetti squash dinner. One night (I), I did it after gym, and next night (II) without gym, but after a 25-min walk from the train station. The meal was the same both nights. Results:

(I) Before dinner: 84, 1hr PP: 114
(II) 88 and 129 respectively.

My conclusion: Although exercise helps, I should avoid this food.

Wow! anonymous of Jan 11, 2011.  I totally get you! I was thinking the same.  I have had high cholesterol since my eary 20's (now in my 40's)at times >350 with my ldl always high triglycerides never too bad. That puzzled my doctors.  All my doctors have said that I need to take statins or I will die basically. Thought I ate well.  But now I know I could have been eating wrong all these yrs!? Tried a McDougall 2 months ago, but thought it was way too much carbs. No nuts, oils or fish. Felt ok then, crappy as time went on.. Put fish/nuts back in my diet and Surprise, I felt better. But now, after reading @ that APOE stuff, I wonder should I go back to strick vegetarian or not?? I guess I have to get some test first to determine what my break down is, right? I have always wondered since my 20's if this is going to b the year of the big one?  I have a 2 yr old and want to b around for a long time.  My grandfather and Great grandfather live into 90's. Grandma, @78-80. But on my other side, My mom 1st husband(my biological dad) had quadrupal bybass at 42. What test should i get it seems you could be screwed either way you eat, depending on your genetics. thanks

Dear Anon Said:

With high levels so early, a good idea to ask MD about niacin, statins dont work on ApoE 4.s very well. I dont take them.

I do exercise after meals, and use pysillium, 1k niaspan, and increase vegetable sources of Omega 3, since some research says that fish oil is not as useful with ApoE 4's either, but I still take fish 2k, and D3 2k daily. Ground flax seed is good source of veg omega3.

My brother is not just 4/3 but 4/4.

Would love to see others comment, since we are 21per cent of population.

Good luck,

Thanks.

Thanks. In my 20s...My Dr said he had never seen someone so young with my #'s.  Said he would not give Statins because they didnt know the effects on young persons.  
  In 30's...Have been on Lipitor in the past. My Drs said Niacin wouldnt lower it enough.  Lipitor did not do much. It < my ldl at first then it started to lower my hdl too. Remember my triglycerides were never high normal or lower even.  I felt weird/achy on it with brain fog or general stupor feeling. I stopped in my 30's.  Felt better. Found tons of info against statins on internet.
  Also told them a long time ago, my great aunt, my mother and my uncle(moms bro)had a < thyroid.  But as long as my numbers come out ok, thats as far as they go here.  I think I have always been "tweeked" a bit low. Have cold hands/feet, dry hair/skin, hard to very lose weight,tired ect...

In my 40's...Had my daughter @2yrs ago and Drs wanted me to try Crestor after delivery. I Said No. I know there is a better way. So, I have been trying to do a cross between Asian/Medittarean/Jen's common sense. Here it is...

  I eat fruit/veggies with almost fish exclusively. Occasionally some turkey/chicken real lean.
  Stopped all coffee, drink tea black/green brewed only.
  Stopped all the phoney crap.No artificial sweetners. No hydrogenated oils ect..
  Stopped eating quick oats yrs ago, now trying coarse grind or the steel cut. I mix it with barley adn rye flakes. Use lots of flaxseed in anything I can.
  For a snack I eat a handful of nuts w/o salt mixed with fruit like raisens/cranberries no sugar or the least I can find.
  In the process of stopping wheat products. Almost impossible to find though. Switched to rice/potatoes but exclusively but now I am confused, Dr. Davis says that might b taboo too? Thought rice is a staple in Japan? Hmm..
  Take 1 fishoil High omega3 Sams club daily. And 2-3 times a week starting this winter, a couple 1-3tsp of cod liver oil every other day.
   Bought a bottle of Sloniacin to try if all this doesnt work. I just have to find a doc that will do the right test for lipids. That is the APOE Correct?? Please tell me if I am wrong.  They don't do particle size, always just the basic cholesterol test.  
  Jen in Minnesota

very interesting!  My endo thinks I have some genetic cause for high ldl  (ldl particle # > 2000, but HDL  is 90 and trig around 40).  On low carb high fat diet and my ldl just goes up and dr wants me on a statin.  so far I have resisted as I want to try diet/exercise (my weight is at the high range of normal).  I have no wheat, potatoes, rice, sugar etc -- basically fish, fowl, vegetables and dairy (minimal fruit) and nothing proocessed but have not seen any change in lipid profile.  lp(a) is normal so does this sound like  an APOE variant?  What is the best diet?

@Jen in Minnesota

Have you had a recent heart scan? If not, getting one would give you a baseline with which to compare the effects of future dietary strategies. It will also give you peace of mind when you find that your calcium score (if any) is holding steady or decreasing. Tracking lipids without the scan, IMHO, is less satisfying and less useful.

I hear the several frustrated comments here.

The key is to:

1) be armed with information when talking with your healthcare provider. Just asking about apo E raises the bar considerably.

2) Start to think about individualized health, i.e., diet fine-tuned to your genetic susceptibilities. There is not a true one-size-fits-all diet approach. Some tweaking is required for various genetic patterns, largely determined by apo E genetic type.

Thanks all, and Dr. Davis...
   It's convincing the Docs that you should get specific tests, beyond the basics. (like total thyroid breakdown, APOE lipids testing, heart scan, Vit D testing).
  At a University Hosp I asked my gp 2-3 yrs ago if I could get a scan to clear up all this cholesterol business to check 4 plack? Said hosp wouldnt allow it. I would have had to private pay everything,(& u can't get one w/o recommendation anyway). Asked the same thing over 10 yrs ago to my clinic dr. Said same thing. It depends if your insurance will cover too. Cant get on partners insurance for family coverage, so I have to pay for all tests w/a high deductable too.
  No big deal though...It is great u can get tests on your own now. Will look into that more, maybe I will save up or join something like "Track your Plack".  Looks like I can maybe get some sort of test for lipids.
If my breakdown comes out good, and I eat well already, plus take Vit D; then maybe they have had me worried unecessarily for 20 yrs!!HaHa...
Take care Jen in Mn

You've written in the past about the failure of low fat diets to reduce plaque, so I was surprised to read that 19% of people benefit from eating less fat (assuming they don't replace fat with grains). I believe I'm one, because through trial and error - and multiple cholesterol tests - I've found that the less fat I eat, the lower my LDL reading.

Kurt: and then Gene:

Just wanted to point out---it's not 19 percent, it is 21. That means 1 in 5 should not follow the "increase your fats diet." And they may in fact not be harmed by diets that harm other gene profiles.

Sure would like to know if niacin balances this all out?

Keep in mind that ApoE 4 is a very controversial gene test---it is sometimes called the Alzheimers gene, mistakenly; and there is a lot of debate about the ethics of such a test for fear of marking people for a certain fate. Would suggest maybe discuss and research before checking, but it too is a rock and hard place choice.

"Peter also has another gene for Apo E4, another genetically-determined pattern shared by 19% of Americans. (Another 2% of Americans have two "doses" of Apo E4, i.e., they are homozygotes for E4.)"

Gene: Thank you so much for posting, I am grateful for freeback and input on this. Suggest trying the exercise after not before you eat. The science says the benefits are about post prandial exercise. I would love to see your results.

28 y/o ApoE 3/4 here.  Haven't been tested for Lp(a) yet, but my mom has it and she's also a 3/4.  Definitely frustrated with all the back and forth on whether I should do LC/HF or veg.  Started taking niacin last year, but I'd really like to know what to do with the diet.

Dr. Davis-  Do you recommend ApoE 4's take fish oil, and if so how much?  I've heart conflicting info.

Lucy:

Great question !

Thank you for asking Dr. Davis about fish oil and ApoE 4's. I too take fish oil and wonder if I am making it worse.

@Anon

The science says the benefits are about post prandial exercise.

Immediate benefits will depend on the kind and amount of food consumed, the type, duration, and intensity of the exercise, and how soon after eating you exercise.

There are also long-term benefits from regular exercise, and I am not sure you can reduce them to whether you eat and then exercise or exercise and then eat.

I prefer to have a light meal within 1hr before a workout, and a good meal with lots of protein after my workout. My typical workout includes 30 min cardio + strength resistance the slow burn style.

Disclaimer. The opinion is my own, and I am not an exercise scientist.

In a case like this, I would continue on a plant based, low fat diet to combat Apo E4, then add in the following to combat the Lp(a) issue:
Vitamin C titrated to bowel tolerance
Proline
Lysine
Guggul
Niacin

Great post, and painfully true for me; my father had to undergo his 2nd coronary bypass operation this past April 2007, and despite the strangely 'status-quo' or 'business as usual' attitude of both the surgeons and assisting doctors and nurses involved in my dad's procedure (yes, the whole thing seemed like such a regular day at the beach to them because Holy Cross in Fort Lauderdale performs so many of these operations on a daily basis, with success, of course) did nothing really to quell my family's fears of the severity of this operation; this is still a monstrous operation that not only takes a heavy toll on the patient, but on the family sitting in that waiting room as well.
I still cry at the memory of having to tell my dad, "hey Pop, you need another CABG" after an invasive angiogram revealed disaster after disaster in his arteries.
And this is why your message is so important, and why it needs to get out every day, and loudly.

I'm rooting for you. And I'm thankful you're here.

A few thoughts about this post:
The first is a question. What do you think about ultrasound screenings for carotid artery plaque, abdominal aortic aneurysm, and peripheral arterial disease? A company called Life Line offers these, saying that they show evidence of plaque build-up in the arteries. Are they useful in conjunction with a heart scan, or can they indicate risk similar to a heart scan? It sounds like they are intended to be early detectors of stroke risk. Are they worth the investment?

The second comment is an observation. Those of us not in the medical field tend to assume that anyone who is knows what he or she is talking about on the subject of the human body and illness. However it is apparent that those with M.D.'s can come to very different conclusions about what causes us to get sick and what we should do to prevent illness. Dr. Dean Ornish is an M.D. You are an M.D. Dr. Atkins was an M.D. Yet the dietary advice differs noticeably, so how do we know who is right and who to listen to? I've learned not to believe something just because a doctor says so, because when I followed the low-fat high-carb advice I got fat and felt horrible, but now that I am following a low-carb plan with plenty of protein and fat, I've lost 25 lbs. and feel great. My bloodwork also supports your claims: low triglycerides, high HDL, and low fasting blood sugar. It's kind of sad in a way that I actually get better medical advice from doctors whose blogs I read on the internet (I'm also a Dr. Eades fan) than from my personal physician. And finally, a thank-you: since reading your advice about Vitamin D, my flower garden is in the best shape it's been in in years, since I have a new knowledge about why it's so important spend some time in the sun and a new motivation, therefore, to be outside pulling the weeds.

And concerning your recent post  about breakfast cereals,congratulations are in order: I've broken my husband's cereal for breakfast habit. (I broke my own years ago.)

I have had good results with the Lifeline service, but only when used in conjunction with a heart scan. It cannot replace a heart scan. This is because, while atherosclerosis is a body-wide process, this disease does not perfectly track in parallel in all arteries of the body. You can, for instance, have lots of plaque in the carotid arteries while having only a modest amount of plaque in the coronary arteries, and vice versa.

I agree with your second comment. In fact, I have posted on this Blog about this.

We are all swimming in a sea of information and mis-information, and blind alleys along the way to the truth. We can only educate ourselves as best as possible and then come to our own judgements about the value of this or that argument.

I have a comment too: I think one reason there is so much confusion is because dietery connection with heart disease hasn't been sufficiently studied. We only saw some partial studies by Drs Ornish, Agatston, Atkins, Hayes but not much independent verification, AFAIK. For example there are some studies done by now on the effects of a high fat low carb nutrition in diabetes and epilepsy but virtually nothing that I know of for cardiac patients.  The only one such study I heard of was halted half way through (after showing very promising results) when the funding was cancelled, 27 years ago.
Stan (Heretic)

A somewhat updated comparison of old care versus new care: I was on American Airlines this week, and looked through their magazine. There was a full page ad from the Cooper Clinic in Texas; a 46 year old woman pictured said "I had no idea I had heart disease, but had a family history...an EBT scan and four stents later, with some lifestyle changes, I'm a new woman".

I understand you can't generalize from one case, and while this seems to represent cutting edge treatment, it also gives me the creeps thinking about the obvious drive for revenue here. Couldn't they have tried your approach for awhile before invading? Thanks.

I think that they tell the stories that have a "WOW!" factor. The Cooper Clinic does indeed engage in a low-level grade of preventive care (AKA Lipitor, etc.)

But I really hate those stories, too.

Saw a lady at shul today, she is convinced of Dr. Esselstein's more carbs- is- better method. Ornish, Esselstein.....hard to refute the drumbeat of eat carbs, cut meat and fat.